Cars I hate

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Originally Posted By: VNTS
People forget the US did bail out Honda and Toyota, Each hybrid sold of each model, think Prius and Civic/Accord hybrid up to 60K units per manufacturer were subsidized to the tune of 3400 per car, so each manufacutuer was subsidized to the tune over $205 million each of US taxpayers money.


Yep! And that the Japanese gov't subsidizes their auto industry as well.
 
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: VNTS
People forget the US did bail out Honda and Toyota, Each hybrid sold of each model, think Prius and Civic/Accord hybrid up to 60K units per manufacturer were subsidized to the tune of 3400 per car, so each manufacutuer was subsidized to the tune over $205 million each of US taxpayers money.


Yep! And that the Japanese gov't subsidizes their auto industry as well.


And the US subsidizes its gasoline industry.
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Originally Posted By: dishdude
Even if GM and Ford have some assembly in Canada and Mexico, have you ever been there? Canada and Mexico have more American cars on their roads than the US!

How many American cars do you see on Japanese roads?


Depends on which year you were looking.

GM and Honda did export Accords, Cavaliers, and Saturn S-Series to Japan at one time. Now the North American Accord is way too big for Japanese consumption and I think GM gave up on the market.
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But as far as Mexico? If it's not a Crown Victoria, Suburban, Lobo (F-150) or Late Dodge Ramcharger (which we did not get) it seems like it's usually a Renault, Nissan, or Volkswagen model that we do not get (like the Polo or Micra or something) A few "Chevies" that look like rebadged Daewoos(badged "Chevy"...not Chevrolet)and an occasional Peugeot or Mercedes Benz. I'm excluding the ubiquitous "Vocho" because that is too obvious in Mexico.
 
Originally Posted By: VNTS
People forget the US did bail out Honda and Toyota, Each hybrid sold of each model, think Prius and Civic/Accord hybrid up to 60K units per manufacturer were subsidized to the tune of 3400 per car, so each manufacutuer was subsidized to the tune over $205 million each of US taxpayers money.


Not just that, but their 'sacred' Nippon brands ALL took their own country's/government's help in the form of bailouts (albeit probably not as voluminous as ours was of our industry), and more importantly to those who decry/despise protectionism so vehemently as being a worse offense than murder, protectionism and tariffs.
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So now will they refuse to buy from them because their fave foreign brands were bailed out/given 'anti-"free" market trade' help???!
 
Hyundai seems to make a pretty good car. What I don't like is they advertise a 10yr/100,000 mile warrenty that, if you go by all the horror stories on the internet, is worth about as much as the paper it's printed on. My daughter has an accentand it's been a good car so far, but the ATFIII thing just puts a burr under my saddle.
 
you guys forget THERE are actually poorly made vehicles made with terrible engineering...sold just to make a profit.
Most companies couldn't care less about you after the sale.
Once they make their money move on to the next sucker.
When I buy am expensive vehicle I'm sure as heck gonna buy something I know will last a while.
Before the internet we the consumer never had a chance..had to rely on personal opinions from family/friends.
Not putting anyone down in these threads....unknown consumer reading auto magazines and thinking all the reviews are honest and buying a car by their recommendation...good luck.
 
Originally Posted By: css9450

Blah, blah, blah. That has become a tiresome argument.

I keep buying GM cars and have yet to find one built in Mexico.


I have a Chevy cobalt (2007) and a Caddy CTS (2009) both made in the USA proudly by UAW. domestic content 70% in the Caddy (transmission and entertainment/nav from elsewhere) the chevy is also in the 70% range but I can't find the original data sheet I got with the car.
 
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Originally Posted By: Robespierre


GM and Chrysler have already received plenty of my money in the form of bailouts. So they already have a noncompetitive advantage over "foreign" companies. Why should I grant them another? The "buy American" crowd is essentially arguing against free market competition and for the buddy-buddy system. As far as I'm concerned, US companies can compete for my business just like any other company.


Most of the foreign companies were either subsidized by their governments or were given big incentives to export long before GM or Chrysler were bailed out. As far as employing American, I don't know which industry you are talking about. As for the Global economy, many foreign governments are getting bailed out or are going bankrupt. Unless you are going to live or retire Globally instead of in the USA, you may want to consider contributing all you can to the US economy. As far as competing, most of the American vehicles are actually better than their foreign competitors. Try one.
 
Originally Posted By: johnachak
Originally Posted By: css9450

Blah, blah, blah. That has become a tiresome argument.

I keep buying GM cars and have yet to find one built in Mexico.


I have a Chevy cobalt (2007) and a Caddy CTS (2009) both made in the USA proudly by UAW. domestic content 70% in the Caddy (transmission and entertainment/nav from elsewhere) the chevy is also in the 70% range but I can't find the original data sheet I got with the car.


You know how many times I have driven by Lordstown Assembly (Home of the CRUZE) on my way from Pittsburgh to Cleveland? I remember the Cavalier and Sunfire that used to be on the roof, then the Cobalt on the big sign. The facility is ginormous!

I drove my Cavalier and Cobalt by multiple times and waved!
 
Not sure about GM but Chrsler paid everything back save about 1 billion( was the amount loaned to "Old Carco" and that was the part of the old chrysler which went insolvent and was liquidated).

As I said Honda and Toyota got 200 million each in subsidies for the hybrids so yes I guess Chrysler screwed the taxpayer becasue they got more
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When you think of the government waste, 1 billion is a drop in the bucket. For ex last year 2010 the US taxpayer gave illegal aliens over 4.2 billion in cash benefits, think the tax credit w

Originally Posted By: johnachak
Originally Posted By: Robespierre


GM and Chrysler have already received plenty of my money in the form of bailouts. So they already have a noncompetitive advantage over "foreign" companies. Why should I grant them another? The "buy American" crowd is essentially arguing against free market competition and for the buddy-buddy system. As far as I'm concerned, US companies can compete for my business just like any other company.


Most of the foreign companies were either subsidized by their governments or were given big incentives to export long before GM or Chrysler were bailed out. As far as employing American, I don't know which industry you are talking about. As for the Global economy, many foreign governments are getting bailed out or are going bankrupt. Unless you are going to live or retire Globally instead of in the USA, you may want to consider contributing all you can to the US economy. As far as competing, most of the American vehicles are actually better than their foreign competitors. Try one.
 
I can't stand anything from GM or Chrysler or FIAT made after 2009.

I work in the auto business, when do I get bailed out and always make $80K a year?

As for cars I hated through the years:
Every Chrysler T&C van, and related van.
Every Hyundai built before 2004
Every Kia before 2008
Every Daewoo ever.
Honda CRV
Toyota RAV4
VW New Beetle
Mazda RX-8
Chevy Aveo. Don't build so much of the car in Korea, and tell me it is wonderful for the USA.
Mercedes "Coupe styled sedan"
Saturn S series
Honda Civic Type-R. At that price you could buy a VW GTI.
Nissan Juke
Any Nissan Sentra between 1995 and 2005
And there are probably many others I could add, but I don't feel like thinking about it right now.
 
Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: 38sho
so what do you like?



Yeah right?? what the [censored] do you like then?




so he likes a mid 80's ford with a 302 and trashes so many other things that are 10x that car?
 
Originally Posted By: VNTS
Not sure about GM but Chrsler paid everything back save about 1 billion( was the amount loaned to "Old Carco" and that was the part of the old chrysler which went insolvent and was liquidated).

As I said Honda and Toyota got 200 million each in subsidies for the hybrids so yes I guess Chrysler screwed the taxpayer becasue they got more
wink.gif


When you think of the government waste, 1 billion is a drop in the bucket. For ex last year 2010 the US taxpayer gave illegal aliens over 4.2 billion in cash benefits, think the tax credit w

Originally Posted By: johnachak
Originally Posted By: Robespierre


GM and Chrysler have already received plenty of my money in the form of bailouts. So they already have a noncompetitive advantage over "foreign" companies. Why should I grant them another? The "buy American" crowd is essentially arguing against free market competition and for the buddy-buddy system. As far as I'm concerned, US companies can compete for my business just like any other company.


Most of the foreign companies were either subsidized by their governments or were given big incentives to export long before GM or Chrysler were bailed out. As far as employing American, I don't know which industry you are talking about. As for the Global economy, many foreign governments are getting bailed out or are going bankrupt. Unless you are going to live or retire Globally instead of in the USA, you may want to consider contributing all you can to the US economy. As far as competing, most of the American vehicles are actually better than their foreign competitors. Try one.


I don't doubt that lots of foreign auto manufacturers are subsidized by their governments. That's irrelevant to me. The only companies that I've been personally forced to subsidize are US companies. US companies have already profited from me, even though I've never bought a car from them. I'll go out of my way to "buy American" as soon as American companies go out of their way to "employ American". They don't deserve any sort of loyalty from me or anybody else.

The only vehicle I've ever bought new was a Kawasaki. There was no American equivalent to that bike. I currently own two used American vehicles. I bought them because they were cheap and they were good enough. They're certainly not the best, but I don't want to pay for the best. Lately I've been considering buying a new vehicle within the next year or so. If I do, country of origin or "domestic content" simply won't be a factor in my decision.
 
Im at risk of hijacking this thread, I'll stop after this reply but for as many vehicles as Hyundia,and Kia, VW, and some others, they dont have a whole lot invested in the USA.
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: Superbuick96
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I don't care for Kia, or Hyundia. They always seemed very Walmart to me. Not to mention they rip off syling cues from other companies. Which is a joke in itself! Also any other company that has nothing to do with the USA other then selling they're vehicles here. It be nice if some of these compaines built plants in the U.S. offering jobs to the people they are trying to sell they're cars too.


Hyundai has a manufacturing plant in Montgomery, Alabama.
Kia has a design center in Irvine, California and a manufacturing plant in West Point, Georgia.
 
Originally Posted By: Robespierre


I don't doubt that lots of foreign auto manufacturers are subsidized by their governments. That's irrelevant to me. The only companies that I've been personally forced to subsidize are US companies...... I'll go out of my way to "buy American" as soon as American companies go out of their way to "employ American". They don't deserve any sort of loyalty from me or anybody else.



I dont think you quite understand the point VNTS is making. You and I, and OUR government have in fact subsidized the foreign auto manufacturers with our federal tax credits on certain vehicles that he has pointed out. In addition many foreign makers have received federal dollars for technology and reserach right alongside the Detroit based manufacturers.

As to your second point, the American auto manufacturers have employed millions of Americans for over a hundred years. What kind of convoluted double speak world do you live in where the transplants get a pass for their minimal employment records here vs the hundred year history of the domestics? Ford just recently "insourced" to their Rawsonville plant hundreds of jobs that were formerly filled by offshore workers...GM just recently announced that the Aveo formerly assembled offshore would be coming to the States...Have we lost auto jobs over the last fifty years? Of course we have, but a lot has changed in the industry over those same years. Technology alone eliminated the need for huge numbers of people...chastising the domestics employment numbers or history as "not enough" in the face of the transplants token numbers employed is just silly.

Consider this:

Ford alone has almost three times as many assembly/manufacturing/engineering/design facilities in the States as ALL of the transplants COMBINED.
GM has even more than Ford.

The total percentage of US employees employed by the 13 largest foreign auto manufacturers amounts to 8% of their total world wide employment...Nice of them isn't it, to employ so little in what is/was for many of them their biggest market?
 
Originally Posted By: LS2JSTS
The total percentage of US employees employed by the 13 largest foreign auto manufacturers amounts to 8% of their total world wide employment...Nice of them isn't it, to employ so little in what is/was for many of them their biggest market?



Yes, and of course they all do it COMPLETELY out of the kindness of their hearts and a warm, fuzzy, benevolent feeling for the U.S. domestic worker, with NO over the top win-win benefits (GREAT publicity/P.R., counters to "buy American", BIG tax breaks/subsidies, saved shipping costs and MORE profit than importing from their OWN countries, etc.) whatsoever to themselves.
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Don't necessarily say hate but strongly dislike:

Nissan Juke (designed by a blind person?)
Kia Sole (especially in puke green)
Cube/Xb etc
AMC Matador
Ford Mustang II
and I could probably come up with more
 
Cars I dislike:

1. Chevy Avalanche
2. Pontiac Aztec
3. Toyota Echo
4. Toyota Yaris
5. Toyota Prius
6. Honda Element
7. Honda Fit
8. Honda Ridgeline
9. Nissan Cube
10. Dodge Nitro
11. Smart Car
 
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