*sigh*
Synthetic, Lithium, 5% Molybdenum grease needed
- Thread starter 93Chewbacca
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Originally Posted By: Rix
That is incorrect.
#2 works justt fine.
Millions of toyotas on the road prove that.
I've got a Lexus with a Birfield-type joint on the inboard/diff side of the rear half shafts and a standard Rzeppa-type joint on the wheel end. I used Red Line CV-2 NLGI 2 red moly grease and it's working just fine.
/edit - it's similar to a Birfield joint on the inboard joint but it looks like a conventional CV joint.
That is incorrect.
#2 works justt fine.
Millions of toyotas on the road prove that.
I've got a Lexus with a Birfield-type joint on the inboard/diff side of the rear half shafts and a standard Rzeppa-type joint on the wheel end. I used Red Line CV-2 NLGI 2 red moly grease and it's working just fine.
/edit - it's similar to a Birfield joint on the inboard joint but it looks like a conventional CV joint.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: nthach
Originally Posted By: Rix
That is incorrect.
#2 works justt fine.
Millions of toyotas on the road prove that.
I've got a Lexus with a Birfield-type joint on the inboard/diff side of the rear half shafts and a standard Rzeppa-type joint on the wheel end. I used Red Line CV-2 NLGI 2 red moly grease and it's working just fine.
/edit - it's similar to a Birfield joint on the inboard joint but it looks like a conventional CV joint.
Yes it is similar to a Birfield joint, because it is,
A Birfield is a CV joint, no more no less, In the early 1950's H Spicer sold Frank Rzeppa design to the Japanese and they where really happy to get it, meant a huge leap forward for them in the automotive industry, something they where trying very hard to move ahead on to rebuild the country,,
A Birfield is a CV joint, NTN
And Yes the Rover one shot product if very similar in grade to the type of factory Toyota grease,
This would work very well for you as well Mr Chewbacca, I would think that it would do well for the wheelbearings as well,
I am unsure on what models of Rover Rigs have the spindle sealed from the bearings,
Some do, some dont evidently, I called a Rover dealer to get more info on this, the packets are 7-10 OZ from what the parts guy guesstemated ,
The Toyota "Wally Axle" I redid took about a 64 Oz to rebuild the entire knuckles and wheel bearings, that whole procedure is posted on Utah Rock Crawler thread called "Toyota Core Axle"
Some Rover information states that this grease is Molytex #00
Originally Posted By: Rix
That is incorrect.
#2 works justt fine.
Millions of toyotas on the road prove that.
I've got a Lexus with a Birfield-type joint on the inboard/diff side of the rear half shafts and a standard Rzeppa-type joint on the wheel end. I used Red Line CV-2 NLGI 2 red moly grease and it's working just fine.
/edit - it's similar to a Birfield joint on the inboard joint but it looks like a conventional CV joint.
Yes it is similar to a Birfield joint, because it is,
A Birfield is a CV joint, no more no less, In the early 1950's H Spicer sold Frank Rzeppa design to the Japanese and they where really happy to get it, meant a huge leap forward for them in the automotive industry, something they where trying very hard to move ahead on to rebuild the country,,
A Birfield is a CV joint, NTN
And Yes the Rover one shot product if very similar in grade to the type of factory Toyota grease,
This would work very well for you as well Mr Chewbacca, I would think that it would do well for the wheelbearings as well,
I am unsure on what models of Rover Rigs have the spindle sealed from the bearings,
Some do, some dont evidently, I called a Rover dealer to get more info on this, the packets are 7-10 OZ from what the parts guy guesstemated ,
The Toyota "Wally Axle" I redid took about a 64 Oz to rebuild the entire knuckles and wheel bearings, that whole procedure is posted on Utah Rock Crawler thread called "Toyota Core Axle"
Some Rover information states that this grease is Molytex #00
Mr Chewbacca,
There are a couple of other mechanical devices like your closed axle that need a grease to flow, but not leak,
A lot of good information has been compiled from the Traction Gear Motors for a locomotive that also use this form of grease,
The gearboxes are not well sealed, if a oil is used it leaks into the electric motor causing failure,
Here is a type of grease that sounds it would do real well in this Toyota axle,
http://www.engen.co.za/downloads/produc ... Grease.pdf
And one other place you can find a form of grease to check out is at your Snapper lawn Mower dealer,
They have some stuff called Snapper #00 used in the transmissions,
The lawn mover guys have encountered the very same problem needing a grease that moves around the gear box but not leak out, not very well sealed,
Using a gear oil leaks, thing gets trashed, or troublesome,
Using thick grease #2 grade doesnt move, fails to lubricate , thing gets trashed,
Same story,
Fill your axle with Traction Motor grease or lawn mower grease,
and you got it,
Just a couple options,
There are a couple of other mechanical devices like your closed axle that need a grease to flow, but not leak,
A lot of good information has been compiled from the Traction Gear Motors for a locomotive that also use this form of grease,
The gearboxes are not well sealed, if a oil is used it leaks into the electric motor causing failure,
Here is a type of grease that sounds it would do real well in this Toyota axle,
http://www.engen.co.za/downloads/produc ... Grease.pdf
And one other place you can find a form of grease to check out is at your Snapper lawn Mower dealer,
They have some stuff called Snapper #00 used in the transmissions,
The lawn mover guys have encountered the very same problem needing a grease that moves around the gear box but not leak out, not very well sealed,
Using a gear oil leaks, thing gets trashed, or troublesome,
Using thick grease #2 grade doesnt move, fails to lubricate , thing gets trashed,
Same story,
Fill your axle with Traction Motor grease or lawn mower grease,
and you got it,
Just a couple options,
Originally Posted By: nthach
Originally Posted By: Rix
That is incorrect.
#2 works justt fine.
Millions of toyotas on the road prove that.
I've got a Lexus with a Birfield-type joint on the inboard/diff side of the rear half shafts and a standard Rzeppa-type joint on the wheel end. I used Red Line CV-2 NLGI 2 red moly grease and it's working just fine.
/edit - it's similar to a Birfield joint on the inboard joint but it looks like a conventional CV joint.
Whoops looks like I was off by 10 years on that Birfield joint deal being sold to the Japanese by H Spicer
"In 1963 Toyo secured a similar licensing pact with the British firm Hardy Spicer to produce Birfield-type constant-velocity universal joints."
From, the history of the NTN corp or something like that,
if you want a "Reference"
I have been informed if I site my references it may help a bit,
anyway a "Birfield is a CV joint no more no less"
Originally Posted By: Rix
That is incorrect.
#2 works justt fine.
Millions of toyotas on the road prove that.
I've got a Lexus with a Birfield-type joint on the inboard/diff side of the rear half shafts and a standard Rzeppa-type joint on the wheel end. I used Red Line CV-2 NLGI 2 red moly grease and it's working just fine.
/edit - it's similar to a Birfield joint on the inboard joint but it looks like a conventional CV joint.
Whoops looks like I was off by 10 years on that Birfield joint deal being sold to the Japanese by H Spicer
"In 1963 Toyo secured a similar licensing pact with the British firm Hardy Spicer to produce Birfield-type constant-velocity universal joints."
From, the history of the NTN corp or something like that,
if you want a "Reference"
I have been informed if I site my references it may help a bit,
anyway a "Birfield is a CV joint no more no less"
What do the major CV joint manufacturers out there recommend as a lubricant? (NTN and such)
In the end, I am less concerned with what these vehicles were lubricated with from the factory (15 years ago), I am really just looking to select an optimal lubricant from what is available today.
Originally Posted By: 93Chewbacca
In the end, I am less concerned with what these vehicles were lubricated with from the factory (15 years ago), I am really just looking to select an optimal lubricant from what is available today.
Okay Mr Chewbacca, the optimal lubricant is one that flows but yet does not leak,
You have identified this,..
You have also identified the longevity that can be obtained from a lube of a more liquid nature,
There are a few that you can choose from, You know about the Rover Product, "one shot grease"
The Traction Motor gear grease, the snapper lawn mower #00 grease,
And of course the "Backwoodsgoop"
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/steering_knuckle_repair.htm
I must say MR Chewbacca your "One in a million" to properly identify this ,
What I refer to as a "Master of the Obvious", and that is simply knowing that the square plug on top of the knuckle is to add a lubricant of a liquid nature,
I read your other posts on "Mud" your on the right track, Be Strong do not let these "Black Propagandist" Brow beat you, talk you down,
Do not let the "Brainwashed" effect you, So far on the4x4network there are only 4 confirmed "Masters of the Obvious"
And keep in mind the pictures of the grease shown in the Joint by the Toyota tech, Rixxer is a grease thinned by gear oil,
Some what, or slightly or however he wants to spin it,
Appears to be a #1 grade to myself and others, which is OK, suitable, found in most CV joints,
Again the window of greases to choose from are #00 #0 #1
for this application, this is what the guys the build them and warranty them put in there, from production,
In the end, I am less concerned with what these vehicles were lubricated with from the factory (15 years ago), I am really just looking to select an optimal lubricant from what is available today.
Okay Mr Chewbacca, the optimal lubricant is one that flows but yet does not leak,
You have identified this,..
You have also identified the longevity that can be obtained from a lube of a more liquid nature,
There are a few that you can choose from, You know about the Rover Product, "one shot grease"
The Traction Motor gear grease, the snapper lawn mower #00 grease,
And of course the "Backwoodsgoop"
http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/steering_knuckle_repair.htm
I must say MR Chewbacca your "One in a million" to properly identify this ,
What I refer to as a "Master of the Obvious", and that is simply knowing that the square plug on top of the knuckle is to add a lubricant of a liquid nature,
I read your other posts on "Mud" your on the right track, Be Strong do not let these "Black Propagandist" Brow beat you, talk you down,
Do not let the "Brainwashed" effect you, So far on the4x4network there are only 4 confirmed "Masters of the Obvious"
And keep in mind the pictures of the grease shown in the Joint by the Toyota tech, Rixxer is a grease thinned by gear oil,
Some what, or slightly or however he wants to spin it,
Appears to be a #1 grade to myself and others, which is OK, suitable, found in most CV joints,
Again the window of greases to choose from are #00 #0 #1
for this application, this is what the guys the build them and warranty them put in there, from production,
Originally Posted By: 93Chewbacca
What do the major CV joint manufacturers out there recommend as a lubricant? (NTN and such)
Mr Chewbacca, there is limited information about factory type CV joint lube,
You have to go by "Res non Verba"
Deeds not words,
I do not know or have readily found any information from CV joint engineers aside from GKN where I learned about the inboard grease needing to be thinner, for the tripod joint,
So you just have to look at what the do, and not what is said,
Deeds not words,
The other Factory type grease for import vehicles goes by the Trade name AMBLYGON, or CENTOPLEX ,
These "Words" are useless, the deeds show a #1 grade or thinner,
If some one could find more information about "Factory CV grease" great,
The #1 grease in the replacement boot kits, dont say much other than "Contains petroleum distillates",
"And do not eat"
Res non Verba
What do the major CV joint manufacturers out there recommend as a lubricant? (NTN and such)
Mr Chewbacca, there is limited information about factory type CV joint lube,
You have to go by "Res non Verba"
Deeds not words,
I do not know or have readily found any information from CV joint engineers aside from GKN where I learned about the inboard grease needing to be thinner, for the tripod joint,
So you just have to look at what the do, and not what is said,
Deeds not words,
The other Factory type grease for import vehicles goes by the Trade name AMBLYGON, or CENTOPLEX ,
These "Words" are useless, the deeds show a #1 grade or thinner,
If some one could find more information about "Factory CV grease" great,
The #1 grease in the replacement boot kits, dont say much other than "Contains petroleum distillates",
"And do not eat"
Res non Verba
Mr Chewbacca,
You are going to run into a lot of flack about your "Opinion" of this axle doing better with a lube of a more liquid nature as I am sure you realize from your posting on Mush,
Here is a fact that even the "Black" propagandists will agree on
Toyota made sealing improvements to a axle that domestic manufactures contained a fluid grease,
So pretty cut and dry if you ask me,,,
It IS cut and dry.
The factory repair manuals specs a #2 lithium, with moly in the knuckles, without moly in the wheel bearings.
They came from the factory this way, and they work just fine this way.
Yes, cut and dry.
The factory repair manuals specs a #2 lithium, with moly in the knuckles, without moly in the wheel bearings.
They came from the factory this way, and they work just fine this way.
Yes, cut and dry.
Originally Posted By: Rix
It IS cut and dry.
The factory repair manuals specs a #2 lithium, with moly in the knuckles, without moly in the wheel bearings.
They came from the factory this way, and they work just fine this way.
Yes, cut and dry.
The "Factory Repair manual" is property of Toyota Motor Sales LTD
Permission is needed from Toyota motor Sales ltd to copy this book in whole or in part
Toyota Motor sales ltd is a SEPARATE company from Toyota Motor company of Japan,
They come up with Slogans, advertising, and "Cook" the books
From "Moab Jeeper magazine"
Disclaimer: This is a reader-submitted article. It is not the work or opinion of MOABJEEPER Magazine. Consequently, when Rick (Toyota Master Mechanic) contacted us and provided conflicting information from TOYOTA MOTOR SALES CO., LTD. MAINTENANCE PROCEDURES 1981 Models we felt the documentation must be attached (see below "Disputing the Toyota Information"). Now, please continue reading and make your own educated decision.
conflicting information from TOYOTA MOTOR SALES CO., LTD.
If you read this article "Short Fiber Grease" on Moab Jeeper magazine you will notice that the TOYOTA MOTOR SALES CO., LTD.
Specifies a NIGL #0 grade grease for the steering link,
Folks the only #0 grease at a Toyota dealership is in the drain pans under these axles when they are being repaired for axle seal failure,
Sales Engineering at its finest, dupe even the techs working on the rigs because they have never seen a Short Fiber like lubricant, and are left with the only diagnosis possible for this fluid lubricant and that is axle seal failure
Simply because Toyota Motor "Sales" has told them a #2 grease should be used,
Although I should mention that there are Toyota dealerships that will give somewhat sound advise, by reading posts from folks,
That have been told that this axle is "Permasealed" and to leave it alone if it is not broken,
very good advise,
Or Toyota dealerships have told folks to mix up gear oil and grease, better advise than that of the Toyota Sales company,
However these folks post up on the mushroom factories such as IH8mud and are told that this advise is junk,
And quickly drop the somewhat good advise, to add the incompatible lithium grease,
The ever far reaching arm of the "Black Propaganda" Toyota machine,
Mr Chewbacca, the Rover grease you mentioned is referred to as "Lubed for life"
Your Toyota axle has the same potential if you look at the engineering involved, study grease and lubrication facts,
Lubed for life may be strecthing it a bit, so I have stuck with the 30 year longevity that Aftermarket Toyota leader Kurt Williams mentions,
Again look at what is done the actions, the design of the axle not the words of a salesman,
Res non Verba
It IS cut and dry.
The factory repair manuals specs a #2 lithium, with moly in the knuckles, without moly in the wheel bearings.
They came from the factory this way, and they work just fine this way.
Yes, cut and dry.
The "Factory Repair manual" is property of Toyota Motor Sales LTD
Permission is needed from Toyota motor Sales ltd to copy this book in whole or in part
Toyota Motor sales ltd is a SEPARATE company from Toyota Motor company of Japan,
They come up with Slogans, advertising, and "Cook" the books
From "Moab Jeeper magazine"
Disclaimer: This is a reader-submitted article. It is not the work or opinion of MOABJEEPER Magazine. Consequently, when Rick (Toyota Master Mechanic) contacted us and provided conflicting information from TOYOTA MOTOR SALES CO., LTD. MAINTENANCE PROCEDURES 1981 Models we felt the documentation must be attached (see below "Disputing the Toyota Information"). Now, please continue reading and make your own educated decision.
conflicting information from TOYOTA MOTOR SALES CO., LTD.
If you read this article "Short Fiber Grease" on Moab Jeeper magazine you will notice that the TOYOTA MOTOR SALES CO., LTD.
Specifies a NIGL #0 grade grease for the steering link,
Folks the only #0 grease at a Toyota dealership is in the drain pans under these axles when they are being repaired for axle seal failure,
Sales Engineering at its finest, dupe even the techs working on the rigs because they have never seen a Short Fiber like lubricant, and are left with the only diagnosis possible for this fluid lubricant and that is axle seal failure
Simply because Toyota Motor "Sales" has told them a #2 grease should be used,
Although I should mention that there are Toyota dealerships that will give somewhat sound advise, by reading posts from folks,
That have been told that this axle is "Permasealed" and to leave it alone if it is not broken,
very good advise,
Or Toyota dealerships have told folks to mix up gear oil and grease, better advise than that of the Toyota Sales company,
However these folks post up on the mushroom factories such as IH8mud and are told that this advise is junk,
And quickly drop the somewhat good advise, to add the incompatible lithium grease,
The ever far reaching arm of the "Black Propaganda" Toyota machine,
Mr Chewbacca, the Rover grease you mentioned is referred to as "Lubed for life"
Your Toyota axle has the same potential if you look at the engineering involved, study grease and lubrication facts,
Lubed for life may be strecthing it a bit, so I have stuck with the 30 year longevity that Aftermarket Toyota leader Kurt Williams mentions,
Again look at what is done the actions, the design of the axle not the words of a salesman,
Res non Verba
Here is the link to Moab Jeeper magazine,
http://www.moabjeeper.com/articles/general/listing.cfm?articleID=557
http://www.moabjeeper.com/articles/general/listing.cfm?articleID=557
The factory repair manuals specs a #2 lithium, with moly in the knuckles, without moly in the wheel bearings.
Rixxer,
Only a salesman would recommend two types of grease for the same assembly,
Mr Chewbacca has recognized the need for all the same grease for the entire assembly,
In no application that I can think of in any mechanical device it two types of grease recommended,
Here on the light of Bob the Toyota "Black Propaganda" will be easily identified,
I suggest that you refrain from posting any of this "Black propaganda" here , it is so obvious, so apparent, so basic ,
It is rather amazing how they have able to mis lead you, I have moved on from studying grease and studying human physcology to understand how and why a person could be "Brain Washed" and how to "Re educate"
Quite a challenge,
Rixxer,
Only a salesman would recommend two types of grease for the same assembly,
Mr Chewbacca has recognized the need for all the same grease for the entire assembly,
In no application that I can think of in any mechanical device it two types of grease recommended,
Here on the light of Bob the Toyota "Black Propaganda" will be easily identified,
I suggest that you refrain from posting any of this "Black propaganda" here , it is so obvious, so apparent, so basic ,
It is rather amazing how they have able to mis lead you, I have moved on from studying grease and studying human physcology to understand how and why a person could be "Brain Washed" and how to "Re educate"
Quite a challenge,
It's not the "same assembly".
The bushing in the spindle is rather effective at keeping the correct grease in the knuckle, and out of the wheel bearings.
The bushing in the spindle is rather effective at keeping the correct grease in the knuckle, and out of the wheel bearings.
Originally Posted By: Rix
It's not the "same assembly".
The bushing in the spindle is rather effective at keeping the correct grease in the knuckle, and out of the wheel bearings.
No Rixxer
Mr Chewbacca has correctly identified that this bushing is in fact designed to allow fluid flow,
We have been over this in great detail,
You see these bushings have up to 2 lube grooves, a passage machined into the bushing to allow lubricant to pass,
One of these lube groove entry points is always placed at the lowest possible 6 oclock position
Why ? to allow fluid lubrication even if the level of the grease is not maintained,
There are grooves Rixxer, the bushing is designed to allow lubrication thru it,
No other reason, none, because this in "Engineering" is only done for this reason, the groove obviously takes away from the support, the bushing provides, so to cut up to 2 grooves in it without good reason ( lubrication) is foolish engineering
Are the Japanese Engineers Foolish ?
These are facts about the design that you cannot argue with your sales book,
I thought I have referred you to all of this information,
Mr Chewbacca is 100 % correct understanding the need for all the same grease
The spindle bushing is designed to allow fluid, there are ways to block fluid flow with the bushing or shaft, the Japanese engineers did not do this ,
Cut grooves in the bushing to allow it, placed them at the lowest point possible to allow it till the last possible point ,
these facts you cannot see, because your in the "Dark" stick around "Bob" and you will begin to see them,
How is your capillary action test going Rixxer?
It's not the "same assembly".
The bushing in the spindle is rather effective at keeping the correct grease in the knuckle, and out of the wheel bearings.
No Rixxer
Mr Chewbacca has correctly identified that this bushing is in fact designed to allow fluid flow,
We have been over this in great detail,
You see these bushings have up to 2 lube grooves, a passage machined into the bushing to allow lubricant to pass,
One of these lube groove entry points is always placed at the lowest possible 6 oclock position
Why ? to allow fluid lubrication even if the level of the grease is not maintained,
There are grooves Rixxer, the bushing is designed to allow lubrication thru it,
No other reason, none, because this in "Engineering" is only done for this reason, the groove obviously takes away from the support, the bushing provides, so to cut up to 2 grooves in it without good reason ( lubrication) is foolish engineering
Are the Japanese Engineers Foolish ?
These are facts about the design that you cannot argue with your sales book,
I thought I have referred you to all of this information,
Mr Chewbacca is 100 % correct understanding the need for all the same grease
The spindle bushing is designed to allow fluid, there are ways to block fluid flow with the bushing or shaft, the Japanese engineers did not do this ,
Cut grooves in the bushing to allow it, placed them at the lowest point possible to allow it till the last possible point ,
these facts you cannot see, because your in the "Dark" stick around "Bob" and you will begin to see them,
How is your capillary action test going Rixxer?
You mean the grooves that don't extend past the edges of the bushing? THOSE grooves?
No, they are NOT there to make the 2 cavities share grease. they do the opposite.
Not sure why you can't figure that one out....
Chewbacca already has his answer, and has left the conversation.
This thread should come to an end.
No, they are NOT there to make the 2 cavities share grease. they do the opposite.
Not sure why you can't figure that one out....
Chewbacca already has his answer, and has left the conversation.
This thread should come to an end.
Originally Posted By: Rix
You mean the grooves that don't extend past the edges of the bushing? THOSE grooves?
No, they are NOT there to make the 2 cavities share grease. they do the opposite.
Not sure why you can't figure that one out....
Chewbacca already has his answer, and has left the conversation.
This thread should come to an end.
The bushing By design it to not only allow fluid flow but to ensure it happens,
This is basic facts,
"This thread should come to an end." why ? chewbacca posted up asked the question, made his correct observations about the assembly needing all the same grease,
You show up with the Toyota sales bullpucky and are proven wrong, is that why the thread should end ?
You mean the grooves that don't extend past the edges of the bushing? THOSE grooves?
No, they are NOT there to make the 2 cavities share grease. they do the opposite.
Not sure why you can't figure that one out....
Chewbacca already has his answer, and has left the conversation.
This thread should come to an end.
The bushing By design it to not only allow fluid flow but to ensure it happens,
This is basic facts,
"This thread should come to an end." why ? chewbacca posted up asked the question, made his correct observations about the assembly needing all the same grease,
You show up with the Toyota sales bullpucky and are proven wrong, is that why the thread should end ?
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