New Tourareg diesel better mpg than hybrid...

[sasilverbullet]

Tourareg Diesel - 19 city/28 highway
Tourareg Hybrid - 16 city/23 highway

When will we Americans get a clue about how much more efficient diesel engines are!

And what are we going to do with all the batteries when they go dead?

 

[WishIhadatruck]

I'm not arguing about your conclusion, I'd rather have the diesel myself but according to fueleconomy.gov the hybrid gets 20 city/ 24 hwy.

 

[Quest]

Easy!

(1) diesel, is inherently higher efficiency when done right (no doubt about it). So this does not come as a surprise. That being said, however, the technology to move diesel engine to a cleaner operational environment, the associated pollution (pollution control), etc. are, IMHO more challenging than gasoline engine and thus the costs associated to further reduce the emissions, based on the current technologies we have.

(2) battery should be recycled, period.

Next question plse...

Q.

 

[David S.]

I agree with sasilverbullet. Usually I drive my 2005.5 VW Jetta TDI when commuting between home and work. It is about 75 miles round trip and mostly highway driving with some rush hour slowdowns. For each tank generally the car averages about 57 MPG in the spring and fall, about 55 MPG in the summer, and about 53 in the winter. And consistently going 700 miles or more between fill-ups is fine by me. So far my only regrets/disappointments with a diesel-powered car is that I didn't buy one years earlier.

 

[Eddie]

+1 Quest. Hybrid Batteries are recycled.

 

[Brons2]

I love the diesels also, but...the spread between regular unleaded and #2 diesel is pretty high right now. 30-40 cents per gallon, so if you do a lot of city driving, the diesel will cost you more.

But...I just love the driving dynamics of the diesel anyway, so I would get one for that reason! Tons of low end torque!

 

[KrisZ]

Are the batteries 100% recyclable? I don't think so, you guy make it sound like recycling simply makes the product disappear, when in fact recycling creates its own pollution and byproducts that often cannot be recycled further, thus polluting and wasting more resources, which we are apparently trying to conserve..

So, just because something can be recycled doesn't mean that it is all good, I think we can all agree that it would be far better to never make these batteries in the first place.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Here the spread is 50 cents a gallon ($3.19 vs $3.69) so someone getting 40 MPG with a gas the diesel needs to be getting almost 47mpg to be even.

Then we have the issues with all the EPA garbage that diesels DON'T need but have to due to the idiots in charge.

And of course the extra you pay for the diesel engine over the base gas.

I'd LOVE to have one but the gap between gas / diesel is only going to get worst and the complex systems that have not been proven make it a no go for me.

Bill

 

[bepperb]

Lithium batteries are very easy to recycle, and with the price of metals I doubt any wrecking yard would let that money go down the drain.

Granted, the diesel is the more compelling option here.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Hybrids don't have great fuel efficiency on the highway. They still have to push a box through the air at high speed for long periods of time - going electric isn't going to produce miracles. Where they shine is stop-and-go city driving because of regenerative braking.

If you do lots of highway, don't bother with a hybrid. If you do lots of in-town it can be a miracle.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Are the batteries 100% recyclable? I don't think so, you guy make it sound like recycling simply makes the product disappear, when in fact recycling creates its own pollution and byproducts that often cannot be recycled further, thus polluting and wasting more resources, which we are apparently trying to conserve..


It's interesting that Toyota should say the following about their batteries. Are you saying Toyota is lying?

Quote:
Is there a recycling plan in place for nickel-metal hydride batteries?

Toyota has a comprehensive battery recycling program in place and has been recycling nickel-metal hydride batteries since the RAV4 Electric Vehicle was introduced in 1998. Every part of the battery, from the precious metals to the plastic, plates, steel case and the wiring, is recycled. To ensure that batteries come back to Toyota, each battery has a phone number on it to call for recycling information and dealers are paid a $200 "bounty" for each battery.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Are the batteries 100% recyclable? I don't think so, you guy make it sound like recycling simply makes the product disappear, when in fact recycling creates its own pollution and byproducts that often cannot be recycled further, thus polluting and wasting more resources, which we are apparently trying to conserve..


It's interesting that Toyota should say the following about their batteries. Are you saying Toyota is lying?

Quote:
Is there a recycling plan in place for nickel-metal hydride batteries?

Toyota has a comprehensive battery recycling program in place and has been recycling nickel-metal hydride batteries since the RAV4 Electric Vehicle was introduced in 1998. Every part of the battery, from the precious metals to the plastic, plates, steel case and the wiring, is recycled. To ensure that batteries come back to Toyota, each battery has a phone number on it to call for recycling information and dealers are paid a $200 "bounty" for each battery.



Toyota is not laying, I never even mentioned Toyota, so I truly don't know where this question is coming from, but since you brought up Toyota’s statement, can you point me to one that says that their batteries are 100% recyclable? Or how much of recycled "old" batteries are used in production of new batteries?

 

[CivicFan]

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Diesel fumes make me sick - so, I'm out ....

 

[adamrc]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Diesel fumes make me sick - so, I'm out ....


The new diesels burn so clean and have diesel particulate filters on them now. They produce no smell at all anymore and no black soot either. The days of dirty smelly diesels are gone.

 

[Spector]

Forgot that diesel may also require higher maintenance costs in addition to fuel cost. Some manufacturers (VW) charge more for the diesel option $2,000-3000 which further elongates the break even scenerio.

My estimate is 4-7 years to break even depending on the price of fuel with a gasser getting 30mpg and a diesel 45 at 15,000 miles driven/year. Not a hybrid but a regular gas engine. Hybrids are similar if the manufacture charges more for the hybrid with the same car in a 4 cyl version. then in 8 years the cost of the batteries are added to the equation.

 

[David S.]

"Fuel-Efficient Daily Drivers"

 

[saaber1]

I don't know why someone doesn't make an electric, plug-in-at night car coupled with a small diesel engine to charge the batteries.

Fisker is using a similar concept but it uses a 2 liter DI engine to charge the batteries. If your commute is less than 50 miles per day and you plug it in at night, they estimate you would have to fill up the gas tank about once per year. That would be pretty cool. Diesel would be even more efficient though.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/fisker-karma-2011-02-24

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/fisker-karma-s-concept-2009-01-13

Jaguar also has an all electric concept car that has twin gas turbines to back up the electric.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_C-X75

I'll take one of each please...

 

[Bill in Utah]

Correction;

The spread as of today is 65 cents per gallon! (glad there is no inflation...

)

So the diesel would need to have even MORE MPG over a simple gas engine to break even after paying for everything else.

Too bad..

Bill


Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Here the spread is 50 cents a gallon ($3.19 vs $3.69) so someone getting 40 MPG with a gas the diesel needs to be getting almost 47mpg to be even.

Then we have the issues with all the EPA garbage that diesels DON'T need but have to due to the idiots in charge.

And of course the extra you pay for the diesel engine over the base gas.

I'd LOVE to have one but the gap between gas / diesel is only going to get worst and the complex systems that have not been proven make it a no go for me.

Bill

 

[kelpie]

http://www.cars.com/go/compare/trimCompare.jsp?acodes=USC10VWS041A0,USC10FOS131C0

These two SUV's are similar in size, but if you're comparing mileage, the Escape beats the VW hybrid by a considerable margin. What on earth makes the VW so dang expensive?