OEM vs Aftermarkets. I have questions............

[mitch256]

New to the site and first off let me confess that I know VERY LITTLE about auto repair. I can do the very basic maintenance stuff but that is about it. With the high cost of oil changes now a days, I decided to do my own oil changes and found this site. Great site BTW. I'm a Honda guy and have owned 6 different Accords and Civics over the last 15 years. I currently have a 2010 Civic LX.

When it came time for my first oil change, I went down to the dealership and paid $21 for 3 Honda OEM filters. I didn't even look at the part #. I just took what the parts guy handed me. He gave me the 15400-PLM-A02 filter made by Honeywell/Fram. I wish I had researched things more. I'm sure they will be okay to run on my Honda (after all the are made to Honda specs) but I got to thinking about all this "made to spec" stuff and begin to look at different aftermarket oil filters.

I found out that Purolator, Wix, Napa, Bosch, M1, STP, and SuperTech all make oil filters that will "fit" my car. Each one is made just a little different with different mechanisms to prevent drain back and to bypass in the event of clogging. But if I understand right, the job of the oil filter is to filter the oil (Duh!!) and to maintain the correct oil pressure for whichever application.

Here's my question(s):
If Honda's filters are made exactly to Honda's specifications, how do aftermarket companies make their filters so that they are applicable to so many different applications ? Isn't the recommended oil pressure in my Honda different than in a Nissan ? Or a Ford? Or a Toyota? How is it that the PureOne PL14610 or the ST 7317 filter able to fit so many different applications? It seems that what is good for Honda may not be applicable to Toyota (or whatever brand). Doesn't my Honda have different needs than a Chevy does?

And what does the number of holes in base of the filter mean? Some have 5 holes. Some 8 holes. Some 10 holes. What's it all mean?

How are the aftermarkets as good as or better than OEM if OEM is made specifically for my car?

I was convinced that the only way to go is OEM but after reading many, many threads on this site about the Honeywell made Honda filters, now I think I should look at the aftermarket brands. I'm just confused about how Purolator or Wix can make a filter that will work on several different makes of cars when each car should have different specifications. I get all the price vs. value vs. performance stuff but am I over thinking all this?

Also, I found this video on youtube that REALLY made me think about Honda filters. Some of you may have see it but : ***WARNING*** This guy has a FOUL mouth but the video has some good info. Just don't watch it with the kids around!!
[Link to You Tube clip with profanity deleted}

 

[finalyzd]

Wow first off that guy is something else. But pretty cool he shows you the filters. I doubt a faded looking adbv is much different then a bright colored one.

and just think of it this way. No matter what filter you use(as long as it meets your specs), oem,puro,fram,mobil,knn, your still going to make it 200k plus miles. Honda doesn't require no special filter compare a oem honda filter to a pure one. What's the difference? Pure one traps more dirt? But the honda filter is designed for the car. Who cares. And some filters are made for different applications, like chevy aftermarket filters don't have a bypass valve its built in already?
Find a reasonably priced filter and you be fine, I like pure one and mobils(I get them cheaper then pureones)

 

[rclint]

Don't pay much attention to the filter giving the correct oil pressure, because Honda as well as any other OEM is just as guilty as the aftermarket in that they use their filter across a broad range of engines etc. You will be fine with either a OEM or aftermarket. I also am a Honda person, and of all the filters I have used if all were around equal price (meaning so special sales etc) I would pick up a purolator pureone every time BUT if I'm buying oil at walmart which I am many time.. well I will get the Fram Xtended Guard which I have run out to 13k or more with zero problems.

 

[JOD]

First off, welcome to the forum!

To your questions:

-don't worry about the Honeywell/Honda filters. The only thing they'll really hurt is your wallet. It's a lot of money for a cheaply made filter, but chances are pretty good it won't destroy your engine...and even if it does, Honda's on the hook...

There aren't as many variables as it seems. Let's look at each of them:

Flow: this is what you're talking about when you mention "oil pressure". Well, an ideal filter will have no restriction, and 100% filtration. Obviously these are somewhat mutually exclusive; a filter which stops everything won't flow, a filter which doesn't filter anything can flow freely. Most filters fit somewhere on the continuum. As you pay more for filters, it's more likely that they can both filter more effectively and have decent flow. That's why you pay more money for filters, they're less restrictive and offer better filtration.

Someone can write a longer-winded explanation of this, but basically you're only going to test restriction under periods of high filter loading (lots of crud) and high pressure (redlining, startup with cold oil). So, restriction isn't a huge deal in most circumstances. But these characteristics aren't manufacturer-specific; a filter which flows well and filters well is suitable for any car. It's the engine's job to maintain proper pressure. Higher flow just makes things easier on your motor.

Bypass valve: The bypass location and setting can vary, and is spec'd differently among different manufacturers. In your situation, it's location is less of an issue because of your filter's orientation (pointed down). Having it in the dome can create start-up rattle in some engines (when a filter is likely to go into bypass due to high pressure and thick oil).

Most cars spec bypass setting (pressure at which it opens) in a pretty similar range, which a few notable exceptions (Subaru turbos being one), so most filters are cross-compatible with many vehicles

Anti-drain back valve: With your car, you don't even really need it. Some filters come with a nitrile ADBV, which is supposedly less durable than silicone. In your application, it doesn't matter.

Number of Holes in base: This will have some effect in flow restriction, but it's vanishingly small compared to the effect of the media. Don't worry about it either way.

Total Capacity: This could actually make a difference if you plan on using your filter for 2 changes as recommended by Honda. This varies among filter bands and models. Generally, higher is better, all else being equal

Filtering efficiency: All else isn't necessarily equal! If a filter is more efficient, it will fill up faster, so keep that in mind when selecting a filter and an interval for use! All else equal, more efficiency is better--and long as it's not more restrictive.

Hopefully that answers your questions. As far as recommendations for that car, if I were going two changes on a filter, I'd use the Fram Extended guard, which is a really solid filter despite the name. For a filter every change, I'd use the Purolator Pure One, which has slightly better filtration and very good flow.

Thanks for the link w/the angry swearing dude. He sure has opened up a lot of filters!

 

[tinmanSC]

 

[Lethal1ty17]

pretty much any filter you buy today will work just fine. you can run hondas on olive oil and still get 200k miles out of them. we have 190k on our 1999 accord and it runs fantastic.

my personal choice is the pureone filter because its pretty awesome, but honda oem is also more than up to par. and all oil seems to run pretty much the same but the newer models might be a little different.

 

[mitch256]

Originally Posted By: JOD
First off, welcome to the forum!

To your questions:

-don't worry about the Honeywell/Honda filters. The only thing they'll really hurt is your wallet. It's a lot of money for a cheaply made filter, but chances are pretty good it won't destroy your engine...and even if it does, Honda's on the hook...

There aren't as many variables as it seems. Let's look at each of them:

Flow: this is what you're talking about when you mention "oil pressure". Well, an ideal filter will have no restriction, and 100% filtration. Obviously these are somewhat mutually exclusive; a filter which stops everything won't flow, a filter which doesn't filter anything can flow freely. Most filters fit somewhere on the continuum. As you pay more for filters, it's more likely that they can both filter more effectively and have decent flow. That's why you pay more money for filters, they're less restrictive and offer better filtration.

Someone can write a longer-winded explanation of this, but basically you're only going to test restriction under periods of high filter loading (lots of crud) and high pressure (redlining, startup with cold oil). So, restriction isn't a huge deal in most circumstances. But these characteristics aren't manufacturer-specific; a filter which flows well and filters well is suitable for any car. It's the engine's job to maintain proper pressure. Higher flow just makes things easier on your motor.

Bypass valve: The bypass location and setting can vary, and is spec'd differently among different manufacturers. In your situation, it's location is less of an issue because of your filter's orientation (pointed down). Having it in the dome can create start-up rattle in some engines (when a filter is likely to go into bypass due to high pressure and thick oil).

Most cars spec bypass setting (pressure at which it opens) in a pretty similar range, which a few notable exceptions (Subaru turbos being one), so most filters are cross-compatible with many vehicles

Anti-drain back valve: With your car, you don't even really need it. Some filters come with a nitrile ADBV, which is supposedly less durable than silicone. In your application, it doesn't matter.

Number of Holes in base: This will have some effect in flow restriction, but it's vanishingly small compared to the effect of the media. Don't worry about it either way.

Total Capacity: This could actually make a difference if you plan on using your filter for 2 changes as recommended by Honda. This varies among filter bands and models. Generally, higher is better, all else being equal

Filtering efficiency: All else isn't necessarily equal! If a filter is more efficient, it will fill up faster, so keep that in mind when selecting a filter and an interval for use! All else equal, more efficiency is better--and long as it's not more restrictive.

Hopefully that answers your questions. As far as recommendations for that car, if I were going two changes on a filter, I'd use the Fram Extended guard, which is a really solid filter despite the name. For a filter every change, I'd use the Purolator Pure One, which has slightly better filtration and very good flow.

Thanks for the link w/the angry swearing dude. He sure has opened up a lot of filters!


EXCELLENT reply and thanks for all the good info!!

 

[RF Overlord]

mitch, it's GREAT that you're taking the effort to educate yourself about your car...you're one of the "two-percenters" now...the 2% of the American public that actually CARES about maintenance.

Let me just say this about the Honeywell-sourced filters for your Honda: although Honeywell is the parent company of FRAM, and FRAM oil filters have a poor reputation here, Honeywell IS capable of making an excellent filter; just look at the ExtendedGuard. Compare this situation to Champion Laboratories. They make the E-core filters that many seem to despise, yet they also make all the factory-fitted filters for Ford in addition to Mobil 1, K&N, and Royal Purple -branded filters, all of which which are highly regarded.

My point is this: assuming American Honda has some quality control process in place, the Honeywell-made filters should be more than adequate for your car or Honda would be on the hook for an unacceptably high warranty repair rate. IOW, you really can't ever go wrong with OEM, especially during the warranty period, regardless of who actually makes the filter.

*DISCLAIMER* No, I don't work for Honeywell and none of my family or friends do, either. In fact, I'm a recovering FRAM-aholic.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
mitch, it's GREAT that you're taking the effort to educate yourself about your car...you're one of the "two-percenters" now...the 2% of the American public that actually CARES about maintenance.


You'd be astonished how many of my clients can't read thier mileage to me because their oil change reminder is reading 0%. They don't even know how to scroll through the selections.

 

[mitch256]

Originally Posted By: RF Overlord

My point is this: assuming American Honda has some quality control process in place, the Honeywell-made filters should be more than adequate for your car or Honda would be on the hook for an unacceptably high warranty repair rate. IOW, you really can't ever go wrong with OEM, especially during the warranty period, regardless of who actually makes the filter.

I thought the same thing until I saw the video I posted. The Honeywell filters looked pretty bad (from a quality control standpoint). The endcaps on both were coming apart without any stress or oil on them and before they were even in service. I suppose this could have been caused by the hack job the guy did on them while trying to cut them open but is there a chance the endcaps (or parts of it) could separate and somehow make it into the engine?

 

[Jakegday]

WOW im surprised the mods have left that link up! ive been banned for less then that video

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Jakegday
WOW im surprised the mods have left that link up! ive been banned for less then that video


The link has been removed from the OPs 1st post.

 

[mitch256]

Originally Posted By: Jakegday
WOW im surprised the mods have left that link up! ive been banned for less then that video


I put the proper disclaimer in place AND it related directly to my post/questions..............If its that big of a deal, can't ppl just hit "mute" ???

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: mitch256
Originally Posted By: Jakegday
WOW im surprised the mods have left that link up! ive been banned for less then that video


I put the proper disclaimer in place AND it related directly to my post/questions..............If its that big of a deal, can't ppl just hit "mute" ???


OP ... read this rule from the owner of the board about YouTube videos. You're new here, and you should probably bone up on the rules before you get yourself in trouble.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1556971#Post1556971

More rules in the forum that link came from:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...&PHPSESSID=

 

[mitch256]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: mitch256
Originally Posted By: Jakegday
WOW im surprised the mods have left that link up! ive been banned for less then that video


I put the proper disclaimer in place AND it related directly to my post/questions..............If its that big of a deal, can't ppl just hit "mute" ???


OP ... read this rule from the owner of the board about YouTube videos. You're new here, and you should probably bone up on the rules before you get yourself in trouble.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1556971#Post1556971

More rules in the forum that link came from:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...&PHPSESSID=


My bad. I apolgize.

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
My bad. I apolgize.
Don't feel too bad. Early in my posting days here that youtube was posted as a thread topic on this board, and many folks including myself commented, and iirc it stayed up with no complaints. Then came a rash of problematic youtubes so the rules enforcement on them got tougher. Anyway, that kid is quite comical, but has real pottymouth.

As for the topic, I've found that aftermarket filters like Purolator(my choice), Wix or 'classic' Champ are at least as good or genrally better construction than oem, and can be found for the same or less money.

The one exclusion to that would be Motorcraft filters (made by Puro). They are reasonably priced and seem to work especially well in FoMoCo vehicles, including preventing start up rattle. That said, while the Motorcraft's are well made, their posted efficiency rating (80% @20mu) still remains a regular topic of discussion here.