zerex ready to use coolant?
- Thread starter metroplex
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Just a way to sell a product at a higher price as most buyers want conveniece in lieu of mixing their own solution, especially for topping off a cooling system
FWIW, I'm sure the ZEREX is fine. I filter water and boil it to make 50/50 mix.
Patman
Staff member
Canadian Tire up here sells a similar mixture, but they say it's a 60/40 mix (higher concentration of coolant) and it's also using distilled water too. I find this way more convenient when doing my wife's Honda coolant changes, as I always hated mixing coolant, especially if you don't have a second big jug to put it in. And when I drain her rad and refill it the darn thing only takes a couple of quarts anyways. I think her entire system is only 3 quarts of coolant! (it's not more than 4, I know this for sure)
If you are wondering about Zerex brand, they have been making coolants for a long time. I recall that brand name going back to the 60's at least but I think it goes back farther than that. I think they even sponsored a NASCAR team in the 80's?
thanks guys!
Yes I find mixing to be slightly annoying... I find that I have to use a pouring cup, 3 cups at a time
Then I risk splashing glycol on my paint... or getting dirt into the radiator during the mixing, etc...
The actual cost is $3.83 a gal at walmart.
I find that for a quality anti-freeze like Prestone (from my experience its very decent - it doesn't gum up or gel over time) its around $5.50/gal if you get it on sale. Then for good distilled, its about $1/gal (I don't have a distiller and I can't buy it in bulk). It is cheaper but if the Zerex is decent stuff, then I would have saved time and trouble of mixing.
I wonder if there are virgin coolant analysis kits available?
Yes I find mixing to be slightly annoying... I find that I have to use a pouring cup, 3 cups at a time
Then I risk splashing glycol on my paint... or getting dirt into the radiator during the mixing, etc...
The actual cost is $3.83 a gal at walmart.
I find that for a quality anti-freeze like Prestone (from my experience its very decent - it doesn't gum up or gel over time) its around $5.50/gal if you get it on sale. Then for good distilled, its about $1/gal (I don't have a distiller and I can't buy it in bulk). It is cheaper but if the Zerex is decent stuff, then I would have saved time and trouble of mixing.
I wonder if there are virgin coolant analysis kits available?
Import car owners might be best off using the OEM antifreeze that originally came in their cars. OEM antifreezes are uniquely forumulated.
For example, Honda has sent the information attached below to its dealers. It provides technical information and justification for differences in their formula.
Genuine Honda Coolant is the Only Way to Go
Increasingly severe operating conditions and the advent of lower maintenance
requirements have resulted in significant changes in the variety and the
concentration of additives used in engine coolant. Also, the continual improvements
in engine and vehicle design have challenged coolant suppliers to
design products that perform well in a more demanding environment.
To meet these needs, Honda engineers have developed a superior, high-quality
coolant that has several advantages over the competition.
Some antifreeze, although labeled as safe for aluminum parts, may not be
compatible with Acura cooling system components. Extensive research and
testing by both Honda R&D and CCI, the manufacturer of the Honda coolant,
have proven that the abrasive silicates and/or borates found in most domestic
coolants can cause these problems:
- Silicates bond to the surface of the water pump seal and act as an abrasive,
causing considerable seal erosion and coolant leakage. In actual tests, the silicated coolant caused early leakage. This leakage increased dramatically until a substantial portion of the coolant had been lost. In contrast, the Honda coolant had almost no leakage through
the duration of the test.
Chart here, entitled "Coolant Leakage from Water Pump Seal", showing Leaked Coolant Volume in ml as follows for each test duration in Hours:
24 hrs: Honda Coolant 0, Typical Silicated Coolant 21 48 hrs: Honda Coolant 1, Typical Silicated Coolant 36 72 hrs: Honda Coolant 2, Typical Silicated Coolant 47 96 hrs: Honda Coolant 2, Typical Silicated Coolant 55 120 hrs: Honda Coolant 2.5, Typical Silicated Coolant 56 144 hrs: Honda Coolant 3.5, Typical Silicated Coolant 57 168 hrs: Honda Coolant 4, Typical Silicated Coolant 58.8 192 hrs: Honda Coolant 6, Typical Silicated Coolant 63 200 hrs: Honda Coolant 6, Typical Silicated Coolant 64
- Silicates tend to gel and settle in the coolest parts of the cooling system, causing radiator plugging and overheating.
- Borates cause pitting corrosion on the cylinder head.
- Silicate inhibitors are difficult to stabilize and, therefore, limit coolant shelf life.
Most commercially available coolants were originally designed for cast iron engines. Silicate, an
inexpensive additive, was added to coolants to prevent aluminum corrosion, but the long-term
durability of the combination was not tested.
In contrast, Honda coolant was designed specifically for aluminum engines. It contains an organic
corrosion inhibitor instead of silicate. This superior formula gives these advantages:
- No silicate abrasion of water pump seals. For example, these graphs show the surface roughness of two aluminum water pump seal rings. Seal A, exposed to silicated coolant, shows considerable damage. Seal B, exposed to Honda coolant, displays only minute wear.
(graphs here, showing roughness across the surface, with A a very wiggly line, and B a very smooth line)
- No plugging or overheating caused by silicate gelling.
- Excellent corrosion protection for aluminum components.
- Long-term corrosion protection for other cooling system materials (steel, cast iron, copper, solder, gaskets, seals, and O-rings).
You can find less expensive coolants on the market, but now you can see why genuine Honda coolant is the only coolant approved for Honda and Acura vehicles (it MUST be used for warranty repairs). Honda's non-silicate formula delivers added protection not offered by 95 percent of other brands. Since our customers expect lower maintenance, you're doing them an injustice if you use any other coolant.
For example, Honda has sent the information attached below to its dealers. It provides technical information and justification for differences in their formula.
Genuine Honda Coolant is the Only Way to Go
Increasingly severe operating conditions and the advent of lower maintenance
requirements have resulted in significant changes in the variety and the
concentration of additives used in engine coolant. Also, the continual improvements
in engine and vehicle design have challenged coolant suppliers to
design products that perform well in a more demanding environment.
To meet these needs, Honda engineers have developed a superior, high-quality
coolant that has several advantages over the competition.
Some antifreeze, although labeled as safe for aluminum parts, may not be
compatible with Acura cooling system components. Extensive research and
testing by both Honda R&D and CCI, the manufacturer of the Honda coolant,
have proven that the abrasive silicates and/or borates found in most domestic
coolants can cause these problems:
- Silicates bond to the surface of the water pump seal and act as an abrasive,
causing considerable seal erosion and coolant leakage. In actual tests, the silicated coolant caused early leakage. This leakage increased dramatically until a substantial portion of the coolant had been lost. In contrast, the Honda coolant had almost no leakage through
the duration of the test.
Chart here, entitled "Coolant Leakage from Water Pump Seal", showing Leaked Coolant Volume in ml as follows for each test duration in Hours:
24 hrs: Honda Coolant 0, Typical Silicated Coolant 21 48 hrs: Honda Coolant 1, Typical Silicated Coolant 36 72 hrs: Honda Coolant 2, Typical Silicated Coolant 47 96 hrs: Honda Coolant 2, Typical Silicated Coolant 55 120 hrs: Honda Coolant 2.5, Typical Silicated Coolant 56 144 hrs: Honda Coolant 3.5, Typical Silicated Coolant 57 168 hrs: Honda Coolant 4, Typical Silicated Coolant 58.8 192 hrs: Honda Coolant 6, Typical Silicated Coolant 63 200 hrs: Honda Coolant 6, Typical Silicated Coolant 64
- Silicates tend to gel and settle in the coolest parts of the cooling system, causing radiator plugging and overheating.
- Borates cause pitting corrosion on the cylinder head.
- Silicate inhibitors are difficult to stabilize and, therefore, limit coolant shelf life.
Most commercially available coolants were originally designed for cast iron engines. Silicate, an
inexpensive additive, was added to coolants to prevent aluminum corrosion, but the long-term
durability of the combination was not tested.
In contrast, Honda coolant was designed specifically for aluminum engines. It contains an organic
corrosion inhibitor instead of silicate. This superior formula gives these advantages:
- No silicate abrasion of water pump seals. For example, these graphs show the surface roughness of two aluminum water pump seal rings. Seal A, exposed to silicated coolant, shows considerable damage. Seal B, exposed to Honda coolant, displays only minute wear.
(graphs here, showing roughness across the surface, with A a very wiggly line, and B a very smooth line)
- No plugging or overheating caused by silicate gelling.
- Excellent corrosion protection for aluminum components.
- Long-term corrosion protection for other cooling system materials (steel, cast iron, copper, solder, gaskets, seals, and O-rings).
You can find less expensive coolants on the market, but now you can see why genuine Honda coolant is the only coolant approved for Honda and Acura vehicles (it MUST be used for warranty repairs). Honda's non-silicate formula delivers added protection not offered by 95 percent of other brands. Since our customers expect lower maintenance, you're doing them an injustice if you use any other coolant.
Malibu,
While under warranty, you must do what the warranty says. But using OEM
air in my tires is where I draw the line!
While under warranty, you must do what the warranty says. But using OEM
Starting in 2002, Honda is recommending the first coolant change at 10 years, then after the first go 5 years.
Honda's Type-II is a premix, don't add water.
And it's GREEN !!!
The "orange" long life coolant is NOT the same as Honda's long life green coolant.
Then my MR-2 took red coolant... so many colors!
Honda's Type-II is a premix, don't add water.
And it's GREEN !!!
The "orange" long life coolant is NOT the same as Honda's long life green coolant.
Then my MR-2 took red coolant... so many colors!
I agree S2000driver, a common mistake people make is to think the orange long life Prestone & Havoline Dexcool coolants are the same as Honda green long life coolant and Toyota red long life coolant.
The genuine Honda / Toyota / Nissan / Hyundai coolants are unique and can't be found in the local auto parts stores.
While American car owners may laugh at the idea of "propietary Asian coolants", they will be the ones replacing their radiators and perhaps their entire engines at 10-15 years, whereas the Asian radiators running Asian coolants will still look like new inside after 30 years. Keeping an Asian engine running cool as it did when new is an extremely important factor in achieving 400,000+ miles without significant engine wear.
The genuine Honda / Toyota / Nissan / Hyundai coolants are unique and can't be found in the local auto parts stores.
While American car owners may laugh at the idea of "propietary Asian coolants", they will be the ones replacing their radiators and perhaps their entire engines at 10-15 years, whereas the Asian radiators running Asian coolants will still look like new inside after 30 years. Keeping an Asian engine running cool as it did when new is an extremely important factor in achieving 400,000+ miles without significant engine wear.
My 1981 Ford T-bird is going strong, same iron block.
Its these new fangled aluminum blocks that **** me off.
BTW i seriously doubt you can keep an asian car longer than an american V8 RWD sedan/car/truck. You'll most likely burn oil and blow out blue smoke before I have to change my tranny oil for the first time.
My friend had a 91 Civic that went through 3 engines and 2 transmissions, but the total mileage of the car itself was 300,000+ miles.
[ January 19, 2003, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: metroplex ]
Its these new fangled aluminum blocks that **** me off.
BTW i seriously doubt you can keep an asian car longer than an american V8 RWD sedan/car/truck. You'll most likely burn oil and blow out blue smoke before I have to change my tranny oil for the first time.
My friend had a 91 Civic that went through 3 engines and 2 transmissions, but the total mileage of the car itself was 300,000+ miles.
[ January 19, 2003, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: metroplex ]
You'd be surprised. There's even a difference between Asian brands. 1992 MR-2 blew smoke on startup like you wouldn't believe at 90K miles, yet I haven't seen a puff from the 1988 Accord with over 140K.quote:
Originally posted by metroplex:
You'll most likely burn oil and blow out blue smoke before I have to change my tranny oil for the first time.
The last time I bought a domestic-brand car it was a 1991 Saturn.
I'd like to buy cars that are not only produced in USA (most of the recent Hondas I bought), but also domestic brands. Unfortunately, there is still a significant quality gap.
Malibu, I'm a fan of the engine engineering, but do you have some data to support this business about Asian fluids, radiators, etc., etc. This is really the first I've heard about these parts being indestructible. Anyone else know?
I heard a rumor that much of the reason that coolant changes are frequent anymore has more to do with the quality of the water added than the coolant itself.
When manufacturers know the water is pure, instead of being something out of a garden hose, they can be sure that the coolant will peform like it should over the time it is in the car.
Some may argue they end up making more money that way... I wouldn't argue with that
I don't think materials are any more indestructable these days, regardless the manufacturer. I think the diversity of coolant mixology simply shows that manufacturers are able to use the right materials for performance, and specify the proper protection for the materials they use, regardless the composition of standard coolant.
When manufacturers know the water is pure, instead of being something out of a garden hose, they can be sure that the coolant will peform like it should over the time it is in the car.
Some may argue they end up making more money that way... I wouldn't argue with that
I don't think materials are any more indestructable these days, regardless the manufacturer. I think the diversity of coolant mixology simply shows that manufacturers are able to use the right materials for performance, and specify the proper protection for the materials they use, regardless the composition of standard coolant.
S2000driver, high oil consumption and a puff of blue smoke on startup on a fuel injected Toyota is not necessarily due to something internally worn in the engine. A common cause of this condition is a gummed up throttle body bore and plate. Cleaning these parts up with by scrubbing with a toothbrush and some old rags soaked in carburetor cleaner can correct the oil consumption condition (exactly how and why it works I do not know). Some dealers do this routinely at every tune-up.
GROUCHO MARX, I think an analogy would be if 20 years ago an Asian car owner claimed the seats in their cars never sag. An american car owner might laugh at such a wild claim and say "what documentation do you have to support that." About all the Asian car owner could isay is "seeing is believing". Of course, nowadays many hundreds of thousands of Asian car owner do know from personal experience the seats in Asian cars typically hold their shape considerably longer than those in the typical american car.
Same deal with many, many other components including simple things like plain rubber. Like check out the vaccuum hoses under the hood of a 10 -15 year old American car. They are hard and brittle. On the Asian car, still pretty soft and pliable. Thus, not all rubber hose is created equal. nor the foam rubber in seats, nor the vinyl used in upolstery, nor the coolant used in radiators, etc. etc.
Same deal with many, many other components including simple things like plain rubber. Like check out the vaccuum hoses under the hood of a 10 -15 year old American car. They are hard and brittle. On the Asian car, still pretty soft and pliable. Thus, not all rubber hose is created equal. nor the foam rubber in seats, nor the vinyl used in upolstery, nor the coolant used in radiators, etc. etc.
I own 2 Hondas of over 10 years in age, Changing the fluids with OEM fluids does nothing for the rust aroundthe wheel wells that I see on all of this vintage.
Thanks for the tip.
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