Yet another grid-scale battery fire

[OVERKILL]

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.co...torage-facility-in-otay-mesa-keeps-reigniting

The Gateway Energy Storage facility in California caught fire 3 times over 5 days, and, at the time of the article, was still being babysat by firefighters due to the risk of additional flareups.

The 250/250MWh facility entered service late 2020.

 

[Danno]

Things we will never know....

It is down now, how long before it comes back up?

What are the repair costs?

What is the environmental clean up cost?

What is the real ROI on the facility post fire and rehab.

 

[Owen Lucas]

Things we will never know....

It is down now, how long before it comes back up?

Probably never.

What are the repair costs?

Total loss.

What is the environmental clean up cost?

In California? Arm and a leg unless it’s owned by someone connected.

What is the real ROI on the facility post fire and rehab.

Probably was underwater for millions and now even more.

I’d wager that operations like these are only viable with some government funding otherwise no sane company would take the risk.

 

[zzyzzx]

What is the real ROI on the facility post fire and rehab.

And who is paying for this....

 

[OVERKILL]

And who is paying for this....

There's a reason California has the highest electricity prices on the continent.

 

[burbguy82]

Things we will never know....

It is down now, how long before it comes back up?

What are the repair costs?

What is the environmental clean up cost?

What is the real ROI on the facility post fire and rehab.

Who cares, it is good for the environment no matter what!

 

[ripcord]

And who is paying for this....

An insurance company for part of it, I'd wager, but not for the next one as they won't be insurable after the first couple of big payouts.

 

[oil pan 4]

Things we will never know....

It is down now, how long before it comes back up?

What are the repair costs?

What is the environmental clean up cost?

What is the real ROI on the facility post fire and rehab.

What we do know is they have to be ran hard to make any profit.

 

[dubber09]

Nothing Mr. Gruesome cannot fix with extra taxes....

 

[Speedy3861]

An insurance company for part of it, I'd wager, but not for the next one as they won't be insurable after the first couple of big payouts.

Then probably join the growing exodus of insurance companies leaving the state....

 

[PandaBear]

Things we will never know....

It is down now, how long before it comes back up?

What are the repair costs?

What is the environmental clean up cost?

What is the real ROI on the facility post fire and rehab.

Early development and deployment will always be risky. They will either learn to compartmentalize and tolerate SOME incidents, or they will have to scale back to a more fault tolerant design (LFP? Fire barrier? Dunk over a water tank?). It will cost money and most likely these initial / early design will not finish its life expectancy before retiring or be obsoleted early because newer designs are safer.

If you expect fire, you probably just.... don't clean up and let it burn, again and again? What's the point doing it too early before the whole site is decommissioned?

I think these facilities may be more useful as an "insurance" for grid stability, and it needs insurance to handle incidents, so the cost would likely be just the cost of business if you want a stable grid.

 

[PandaBear]

Then probably join the growing exodus of insurance companies leaving the state....

That's mostly homes build too close to rural / woodland with high wildfire risks.

 

[MVAR]

I think these facilities may be more useful as an "insurance" for grid stability, and it needs insurance to handle incidents, so the cost would likely be just the cost of business if you want a stable grid.

CA policies have destabilized our own BES.

That's mostly homes build too close to rural / woodland with high wildfire risks.

There are entire insurance companies pulling out of home insurance in CA. State Farm won't start a new policy for anyone in the state. They'll carry you if you've already had an ongoing policy but that's it.

 

[JHZR2]

Would be nice if we knew the cathode/cell/manufacturer. Most likely Chinese cells.

This is not unexpected. After a thermal runaway event, propagation over time is common. I didn’t quite grasp if it really spread between systems.

 

[OVERKILL]

Would be nice if we knew the cathode/cell/manufacturer. Most likely Chinese cells.

This is not unexpected. After a thermal runaway event, propagation over time is common. I didn’t quite grasp if it really spread between systems.

Cells are apparently from LG Chem.

 

[OVERKILL]

Update: It was smoldering still as of yesterday and continues to be monitored:
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.co...-fire-in-otay-mesa-smoldering-for-a-sixth-day

 

[Exhaustgases]

So what is the air quality now after that? CARB should be all over that choke choke cough cough green energy.

 

[GMFan]

I worked for 2 years doing fire investigations. Saw enough dead bodies or horrible things from house fires to keep me up at night on fire watch. I unplug my toaster when I’m not using it. And I trust my toaster 10x more than any lithium ion battery. Doubly so if said battery is in some cheap device from Amazon.

There’s another thread in the consumer electronics section about someone’s portable phone charger nearly catching on fire a day after they had that same charger on an airplane. That’s the stuff of nightmares.

If anyone wonders what happens when a lithium-ion battery goes into thermal runaway there’s some good YouTube videos.

I believe there’s a lithium-silicon battery out now that prevents dendrites that plague lithium-ion cells preventing thermal runaway. I think the research shows promising results for fire prevention.

 

[Exhaustgases]

I think the only safe place for lithium is in grease.

I think Toyota uses NMH batteries in their hybrids, much safer.

 

[Owen Lucas]

I unplug my toaster when I’m not using it.

OK I guess my mother in law isn’t crazy after all. Those mechanical timer switches could fail in or never really click off and keep the toaster on I presume.

There’s another thread in the consumer electronics section about someone’s portable phone charger nearly catching on fire a day after they had that same charger on an airplane. That’s the stuff of nightmares.

That was me, I’m not a fan of these batteries anymore or any large batteries inside the house at this point, even computer UPS boxes after the APC recall.

I’m looking forward to the new lithium silicone batteries.