Woohoo! NASA gets funding at last!

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Originally Posted By: Smokescreen

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You don't actually think they spend $20,000.00 on a hammer, $30,000.00 on a toilet seat do you?

NASA is one of the greatest money laundering schemes in history.


I used to work for a guy who spent years on a submarine when he was in the Navy. He said that the reason for a $2000 toilet (not toilet seat) on a submarine is because it has to be designed and tested to withstand the worst case impact of the operating condition without causing a leak that sink the sub.

When you spend $500k on the R&D and only buy 500 (hypothetically speaking), you kind of have to sell it for $2000 to recover the cost and make a profit.

Wait till you see the cost of firmware on a modern fighter jet, it is almost half the R&D budget. Former CEO of Lockheed didn't say "Firmware is the most expensive thing in the universe" for no reason.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
We don't need China to "fund" anything technically. China holding U.S. Treasuries is equivalent to having a savings account at the Fed. The interest gets paid every day.

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The fact is that the U.S. government is not ‘out of money’
To repeat: There is no such thing as the Federal government running out of money. Government checks don’t ever bounce.

The day is coming when this 'rational' explanation (by the Government) of obvious Gov. insolvent Ponzi scheme will ring hollow. The King's clothes (or lack of will be revealed)

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-11...-kotlikoff.html

"But delve deeper, and you will find that the IMF has effectively pronounced the U.S. bankrupt."

and

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-the-us-will-never-have-a-balanced-budget-again-2010-6?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+clusterstock+(ClusterStock)

Noone in "Government" knew or predicted even 2 days ahead of time that Armagedon was about to fall with a cost of 2 to 3 trillion dollars 2 years ago.

Every Govennment optimistic prediction about future costs of Medicare, Medicade, health costs, SS, Budget deficits are always shown to be grounded in fantacy.

The usful thing to take away from what the Government says about money issues is assume the opposite will occur. Then plan your financial strategdy accordingly.
 
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Originally Posted By: PandaBear
He said that the reason for a $2000 toilet (not toilet seat) on a submarine is because it has to be designed and tested to withstand the worst case impact of the operating condition without causing a leak that sink the sub.

So instead of allowing a toilet seat to fail and replacing it with another $10 Walmart toilet seat they spend the $2000.
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Al, I used to believe that until I came across Modern Monetary Theory.

http://moslereconomics.com/mandatory-readings/

I'm not suggesting the current system is sustainable, but there are solution.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/warren-mosler/g20-says-expansionary-fis_b_602398.html

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The G20 has dropped its support for fiscal expansion. The deficit hawks are prevailing. But why is that? We all either know or should know that operationally Federal spending is not constrained by revenues, as Chairman Bernanke stated last year, when asked on '60 Minutes' by Scott Pelley where the funds given to the banks came from :

"...we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed."

We know that when the Fed spends on behalf of the Treasury it simply credits a member bank or foreign government's reserve account at the Fed.

We know that a US Treasury security is a credit balance in a securities account, also at the Fed.
We know that buying a Treasury security means US dollars (numbers on the Fed's spreadsheet) shift from a Fed reserve account to a Fed securities account, which adds to the 'national debt.'

We know that government deficits = 'non government' saving (net dollar financial assets) to the penny, as a matter of national income accounting.


MMT has no affinity towards any particular party. In fact, some Libertarians embrace it.
 
Originally Posted By: Al
So instead of allowing a toilet seat to fail and replacing it with another $10 Walmart toilet seat they spend the $2000.
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Not toilet seat, toilet.

A toilet failure in a sub could cause a lot more problem than just $2000. Even a cruise ship toilet will probably cost more than your Walmart special.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
Al, I used to believe that until I came across Modern Monetary Theory.

http://moslereconomics.com/mandatory-readings/

I'm not suggesting the current system is sustainable, but there are solution.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/warren-mosler/g20-says-expansionary-fis_b_602398.html


I find it very interesting how that guy never mentions inflation or the fact that his proposition amounts to centralized planning.

He is the ULTIMATE Keynesian, and that isn't really working for us, nor has it worked for anyone in the past.
 
MMT is post-Keynesian. It's a very fringe movement. If you look at Hyman Minsky's work, he has been proven to be correct in calling these crises.

Warren will admit inflation is a concern, but if we realize that taxes don't really pay for things but rather just regulate demand, we can control that. For example, if Warren were president or someone that was a proponent of MMT, they would have called for a payroll tax holiday that greatly exceed any tax cut ever put forward. Some of his proposals sound utopian, and maybe they are, but this guy is sharp and the more I learn about MMT the more interesting I find it.

MMT really has no affinity for political ideology. It's just an explanation of the accounting realities of the modern monetary system. Read his 7 Deadly Innocent Frauds paper. Pretty interesting.

After reading Web of Debt and watching the Secret of Oz, I am definitely not in favor of a metal backed currency. I'm tired of the gold standard argument. It's absurd and ridiculous to define your currency based on a useless metal in the ground. We can do better.

"The issue is not whether or not you have an asset behind your currency. You do, always. Currency is always a call option, if you will, on the future taxing ability of the government, which means the productive output of the citizens of in that nation. You don't need to put a hard asset behind it. If you want to, that's fine, but if you're going to do it, it's got to be something that's produced entirely within your own borders. You can not allow international interests to control that. As soon as you do that, you've given up your sovereignty." - Karl Denninger
 
http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com/2010/07/towards-libertarianaustrian-modern.html

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Ok, understood. We fear inflation, too. That has always been our message, too. Indeed, “price stability” has always been one of the two key missions of UMKC’s Center for Full Employment and Price Stability (http://www.cfeps.org/). Maybe you do not like our proposed methods of battling inflation. Fine. Show us yours. I realize that many libertarians and Austrians believe that the only foolproof method for avoiding inflation is to go back to gold. Again, fine. But don’t criticize our labor “buffer stock” scheme for its political infeasibility! Going back to the gold standard is less likely than alien abduction. (Oh, sorry, no offence intended.) Anyway, we (also) do not want black helicopters flying around dropping bags of cash; and we (also) oppose government “pump-priming” demand stimulus—the libertarians and Austrians and even Milton Friedman are correct in their argument that this would generate inflation.


All the gold in the world: 2 Olympic sized swimming pools, folks, that's it.

The last time Fort Knox was audited, Eisenhower was in the White House and what do you think would happen if it were discovered that there was no gold in Fort Knox? And if that's the case, where is it? The International Banking cartel obviously controls most gold - I mean, every other day we're reading that this or that Central Bank is purchasing X amount of Gold from the World Bank and the IMF? Who are the World Bank? Who are the IMF? Where did they get all of this Gold? And for that matter, who controls these central Banks that are buying this gold?
 
Originally Posted By: buster
http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com/2010/07/towards-libertarianaustrian-modern.html

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we (also) oppose government “pump-priming” demand stimulus—the libertarians and Austrians and even Milton Friedman are correct in their argument that this would generate inflation.

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Unemployment is easy: by definition, someone who is unemployed is available to hire. So government can put them to work.

Those are in the same article, yet they are DIRECT contradictions of each other. The guy has no clue what he is talking about and that last quote is as Keynesian as you get.

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Perhaps the most important policy pushed by most MMT-ers is the Job Guarantee/Employer of Last Resort proposal. This provides a federal-government funded job to anyone who wants to work, at a uniform, basic compensation (wages plus benefits). Our libertarian/Austrian fellow travelers seem to hate this program, again for unfathomable reasons. I suspect that they have misinterpreted this to be some kind of Big Government/Big Brother program based on a weird combination of force plus welfare.

It's called CENTRAL PLANNING and has never worked in the history of man kind. Under his plan, if you loose your job in the private sector, then you immediately become a government employee. And then what? Are you going to find another job that isn't guaranteed or paid for by the government? This is the ultimate nanny state and this guy is all for it.
Yes, buster, it is a very utopian idea. I suggest you look to history and see how well these promises have worked in the past. (Hint: not good)

What this guy is ultimately saying is the government can spend unlimited amounts of money to employ people (as it sees fit), no side effects, no inflation, and no effect on interest rates. It's pure folly.
 
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"It is not the Federal deficit we need to worry about. "When we operate at less than our potential - at less than full employment - then we are depriving our children of the real goods and services we could be producing on their behalf." From "Seven Deadly Innocent Frauds of Economic Policy" by Warren Mosler


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Let me try to add something in here. I think it's fair to say we in the
MMT camp start from a very different premise. The question is: for the ‘
right’ amount of government spending which we presume is necessary to run the
nation the way we would like to see it run, how high should taxes be?


The reason we look at it this way is because the ‘right amount of
government spending’ is an economic and political decision that, properly
understood, has nothing to do with government finances or public debt, as Taleb
seems to think. The real ‘costs’ of running the government are the real goods
and services it consumes- all the labor hours, fuel, electricity, steel,
carbon fiber, hard drives, etc. etc. etc. The real cost of the government
using all these real goods and services is that those resources would other
wise be available for the private sector. So when they government takes
those real resources for its own purposes, there are that many fewer real
resources left for private sector activity.

So, for example, the real cost of the ‘right size’ army with enough
soldiers to defend ourselves is that there are fewer workers left in the private
sector to grow the food, build the cars, do the doctoring and nursing and
administrative tasks, sell us stocks and real estate, paint our houses, mow
our lawns, etc. etc. etc.

Therefore, we first set the size of government at the ‘right’ level,
based on real benefits and real costs, and not the ‘financial’ considerations.
Of course, we don't do that today, which is part of the problem. The
monetary system is the tool we use to achieve our real economic and political
objectives, not the source of information as to what those objectives are.
And after deciding what we need to spend to the ‘right sized’ government,
we adjust taxes so that we all have enough spending power to buy what’s
still for sale in the ‘store’ after the government is done with its shopping.
In general, I’d expect taxes to be quite a bit lower than government
spending. In fact, a budget deficit of perhaps 5% of our gross domestic product
might turn out to be the norm, which in today’s economy is about $750
billion annually, as that's probably the amount (IN A NORMAL ECONOMY) which
helps to accommodate private sector savings desires.. However, that number
per se is of no particular economic consequence. What matters is that taxes
are set to balance the economy and make sure it’s not too hot or not too
cold. And government spending is set at the ‘right amount’ given the size
and scope of government we want.

That means just because we are in a slow down, we should not necessarily
add to the size of government to help the economy. We should already be at
the ‘right’ size for government, and therefore not add to it every time the
economy slows down and grow it to the ‘wrong’ size. So while during a
slowdown increasing government spending will indeed make the numbers work,
and will indeed end the recession, for me that is far less desirable than
accomplishing the same thing with the ‘right’ tax cuts in sufficient size to
restore spending to the desired amounts.

Even worse is increasing the size of government just because the
government might find itself in surplus. Again, government finances tell us nothing
about how large government should be. That decision is rightly and
totally independent of government finances. The right amount of government
spending has nothing to do with tax revenues or the ability to borrow, as both
of those are but tools for implementing policy, and not reasons for spending
or not spending, and not sources of revenue needed for actual government
spending.

Hope this helps.
 
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1. MMT is consistent with any size of gov't. It can be a small libertarian govt if you like. But it issues a sovereign floating currency. It supports the currency by imposing a tax payable in that currency.
2. Job Guarantee/Employer of Last Resort is also consistent with any size of gov’t. If you want a big private sector and small govt sector, keep taxes and govt spending low.
3. JG/ELR can be as decentralized as you want. I think there are massive incentive problems if you have federal govt pay wages of for-profit firms. So I would have fedgovt pay the wages in the program but have the jobs actually created and mngd by: not-for-profits, local govt, maybe state govt, maybe federal govt. Argentina experimented with cooperatives and it looked to me to be highly successful.
4. The problem with a monetary economy (you can call it capitalism if you like) is that from inception imposition of taxes create unemployment (those looking for money to pay taxes). We scale this up to our modern almost fully monetized economy (you need money just to eat, watch TV, play on cell phones, etc) and we get everyone looking for money (and not just to pay taxes). It is sheer folly to then force the private sector to solve the unemp problem created by the govt’s tax. Private sector alone will never (never has) provide full employment. ELR/JG is a logical and empirical necessity to support the private sector. It is a complement not a substitute for private sector employment.
5. How can the belief that all ought to work, contribute to society, rather than lay about and collect welfare be called socialism?
6. Ed: I guess I’ve been called worse things than Libertarian! But as you know, I strongly disagree with much of what our govt does. The Fed is a case in point. I would abolish it. Move essential operations into the Treasury. And stop monkeying around with interest rates, inflation targets, money targets, etc. Set overnight (fed funds/discount rate) at 25 basis points and leave it there forever.
LR Wray
 
None of that addresses any of my concerns.

There is NO explanation of how MASSIVE inflation will not occur.

They say that you can simply print your way into making SS / medicare viable. Yet, the current debt on these things is greater than all of the money in the world.

Please explain to me how printing money at this level will not cause hyperinflation.

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So I would have fedgovt pay the wages in the program but have the jobs actually created and mngd by: not-for-profits, local govt, maybe state govt, maybe federal govt.

That is, by definition, central planning.
 
Not only is Mosler an economic genius, he builds some of the fastest cars in the world.



Tempest, nothing is guaranteed. Just read his paper and draw your own conclusions.
 
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Mosler an economic genius

His policies are no different that those of the Wiemar Republic or Zimbabwe, and will result in the same thing. That is not genius, that is destructive.
 
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