It's because of the owner's manual and the lack of oil knowledge by the owners. If the owner's manual said 5W-20 and it wasn't available anymore because it was superseded by 0W-20, some people would panic. The oil companies are afraid of panicky people.
Why is syn 5W20 still sold if syn 0W20 is better?
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Originally Posted By: Panzerman
This whole oil viscosity thing is so overated. No dealership is going to void a warranty on oil weight. They would have a impossible time to even determine what grade it was in a complete failure, not that I believe it would ever be the line cause of that failure.
Change your oil, no matter what the weight and you will be fine. I ve seen 4.6 Fords which spec 5w20 run forever on everything from 20w50 to 0W20 without any issues. Use whatever is on sale.
Probably. But oil receipts used to document oil changes typically show viscosity. And if you have a dealer that is under pressure from the OEM for high warranty claims or the OEM gets involved for another reason it could make for a difficult situation. I'd rather not fight that unequal battle.
This whole oil viscosity thing is so overated. No dealership is going to void a warranty on oil weight. They would have a impossible time to even determine what grade it was in a complete failure, not that I believe it would ever be the line cause of that failure.
Change your oil, no matter what the weight and you will be fine. I ve seen 4.6 Fords which spec 5w20 run forever on everything from 20w50 to 0W20 without any issues. Use whatever is on sale.
Probably. But oil receipts used to document oil changes typically show viscosity. And if you have a dealer that is under pressure from the OEM for high warranty claims or the OEM gets involved for another reason it could make for a difficult situation. I'd rather not fight that unequal battle.
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Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
5W-20 may be cheaper to produce, so the profit edge may lay there ...
Bingo.
5w-20 can not be made cheaper and sold as a conventional oil, but a synthetic 5w-20 can be blended cheaper as well. A good example is comparing the PAO content between Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 and 5w-20. There is a significant difference, making the 0w-20 more expensive to blend.
5W-20 may be cheaper to produce, so the profit edge may lay there ...
Bingo.
5w-20 can not be made cheaper and sold as a conventional oil, but a synthetic 5w-20 can be blended cheaper as well. A good example is comparing the PAO content between Mobil 1 EP 0w-20 and 5w-20. There is a significant difference, making the 0w-20 more expensive to blend.
It's not better.
5w-20, too thin.
0w-20, dinosaur wizz.
5w-20, too thin.
0w-20, dinosaur wizz.
Originally Posted By: Alex_V
Seems to me the answer is "We just aren't there yet."
Yes the car industry is trying to push a car company/government problem onto the consumer!
Seems to me the answer is "We just aren't there yet."
Yes the car industry is trying to push a car company/government problem onto the consumer!
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
It's because of the owner's manual and the lack of oil knowledge by the owners. If the owner's manual said 5W-20 and it wasn't available anymore because it was superseded by 0W-20, some people would panic. The oil companies are afraid of panicky people.
I'm with you Merkava ! 0W... supersedes any & all previous viscosities. Better lubrication at start-up so why not?!
It's because of the owner's manual and the lack of oil knowledge by the owners. If the owner's manual said 5W-20 and it wasn't available anymore because it was superseded by 0W-20, some people would panic. The oil companies are afraid of panicky people.
I'm with you Merkava ! 0W... supersedes any & all previous viscosities. Better lubrication at start-up so why not?!
Because 99% of the motoring public has no idea that 0W-20 exists, and if they are a bit more astute, they might read their manual where the vast majority of 5W-20 weights are still called for in 20W applications. It's only recently that major OEM's are going to 0W-20. Give it time.
I think the bigger question is "why have conventional and syn-blends at all anymore?"...
I think the bigger question is "why have conventional and syn-blends at all anymore?"...
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
It's because of the owner's manual and the lack of oil knowledge by the owners. If the owner's manual said 5W-20 and it wasn't available anymore because it was superseded by 0W-20, some people would panic. The oil companies are afraid of panicky people.
The one time Merk throws in an astute post!
It's because of the owner's manual and the lack of oil knowledge by the owners. If the owner's manual said 5W-20 and it wasn't available anymore because it was superseded by 0W-20, some people would panic. The oil companies are afraid of panicky people.
The one time Merk throws in an astute post!
Originally Posted By: JohnnyJohnson
Even on the Subaru Website they tell you 5w-30 gives better protection in the first 10 minutes of start up. Isn't that were they claim 25% of engine wear occurs?
https://www.patriotsubaru.com/synthetic-oil.htm
OMG, red herring [censored]...
Even on the Subaru Website they tell you 5w-30 gives better protection in the first 10 minutes of start up. Isn't that were they claim 25% of engine wear occurs?
https://www.patriotsubaru.com/synthetic-oil.htm
OMG, red herring [censored]...
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Originally Posted By: mooferz
Typically 0w-20 isn't unequivocally better than 5w-20. It's only "better" when considering certain metrics (IE: cold flow properties), while 5w-20 can be better in others (IE: Shear resistance, NOACK...)
It depends entirely on the oil though. A 5w-20 conventional vs M1 EP or AP 0w-20 with a majority PAO base is likely to be bested in all those metrics by the latter.
Typically 0w-20 isn't unequivocally better than 5w-20. It's only "better" when considering certain metrics (IE: cold flow properties), while 5w-20 can be better in others (IE: Shear resistance, NOACK...)
It depends entirely on the oil though. A 5w-20 conventional vs M1 EP or AP 0w-20 with a majority PAO base is likely to be bested in all those metrics by the latter.
A better question might be why so many OEMs are now recommending the 0W-20 grade with no option to use others.
My guess is that the OEMs probably want at least a Grp III in there and any 0W-20 will be at least that, with the Grp II proportion in the rare blends in this grade probably being quite small.
If an OEM wants to ensure that a Grp III is the service fill used, then it need only recommend the 0W-20 grade.
There are few places in North America where a 0W qualified oil is actually required and most of those who live in areas that would seriously challenge the pumpability of a 5W qualified oil garage their vehicles overnight or have some sort of preheating for the engine and its oil or both.
My guess is that the OEMs probably want at least a Grp III in there and any 0W-20 will be at least that, with the Grp II proportion in the rare blends in this grade probably being quite small.
If an OEM wants to ensure that a Grp III is the service fill used, then it need only recommend the 0W-20 grade.
There are few places in North America where a 0W qualified oil is actually required and most of those who live in areas that would seriously challenge the pumpability of a 5W qualified oil garage their vehicles overnight or have some sort of preheating for the engine and its oil or both.
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I think that’s allot of it … and every 0.1 mpg and satisfying other worries - They have now bumped the GM 5.3L up to 8 quarts … did I read someone say that’s more than the Vette that’s headed to 0w40 …
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
It's because of the owner's manual and the lack of oil knowledge by the owners. If the owner's manual said 5W-20 and it wasn't available anymore because it was superseded by 0W-20, some people would panic. The oil companies are afraid of panicky people.
Kind of like when someone is beholden to a long superseded 10w-30 recommendation even when 5w-30 and 0w-30 are interchangeable, too?
It's because of the owner's manual and the lack of oil knowledge by the owners. If the owner's manual said 5W-20 and it wasn't available anymore because it was superseded by 0W-20, some people would panic. The oil companies are afraid of panicky people.
Kind of like when someone is beholden to a long superseded 10w-30 recommendation even when 5w-30 and 0w-30 are interchangeable, too?
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
A better question might be why so many OEMs are now recommending the 0W-20 grade with no option to use others.
They don't want to be liable on sludge if customer use conventional and go 10k OCI. If you use 0w20 it is guaranteed to be synthetic. If you put 5w20 synthetic someone will try to cheat and end up with a sludged up engine.
A better question might be why so many OEMs are now recommending the 0W-20 grade with no option to use others.
They don't want to be liable on sludge if customer use conventional and go 10k OCI. If you use 0w20 it is guaranteed to be synthetic. If you put 5w20 synthetic someone will try to cheat and end up with a sludged up engine.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
It's because of the owner's manual and the lack of oil knowledge by the owners. If the owner's manual said 5W-20 and it wasn't available anymore because it was superseded by 0W-20, some people would panic. The oil companies are afraid of panicky people.
Kind of like when someone is beholden to a long superseded 10w-30 recommendation even when 5w-30 and 0w-30 are interchangeable, too?
I love me some 10w-30. Though I admit, I have been eyeing the M1 AFE 0w-30 as my next oil to try.
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
It's because of the owner's manual and the lack of oil knowledge by the owners. If the owner's manual said 5W-20 and it wasn't available anymore because it was superseded by 0W-20, some people would panic. The oil companies are afraid of panicky people.
Kind of like when someone is beholden to a long superseded 10w-30 recommendation even when 5w-30 and 0w-30 are interchangeable, too?
I love me some 10w-30. Though I admit, I have been eyeing the M1 AFE 0w-30 as my next oil to try.
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