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Must have that additive pack of peace to avoid rustling your engines jimmies
Why is rotella hated by some?
- Thread starter Redhawk454
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Must have that additive pack of peace to avoid rustling your engines jimmies
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A lot of the non botique diesel oils are now SN rated, so puck ‘em….
It's oddly not even the cost of the oil is the issue with fleets like that. And this is even more so present in the industrial side of lubrication. It's simply taking a machine down for maintenance is the huge cost.
I'm in the process of developing a cold heading lubricant - to forge fasteners (Nuts, bolts etc.) right now for a company, simply so they don't have to take the machine down as much to change oil. Taking piece of equipment down every 5-6 weeks vs taking a machine down every 16-18 weeks for cleaning, maintenance and oil change, saves a ton on labor. Even if the oil is significantly more expensive.
Same thing with this fleet, it's just not being able to take the equipment down for oil changes often enough... so extend the life of the oil. Mobil did a great job selling that, while I didn't retain a customer, I learned a sales avenue. A lot of it depends on your customers needs and wants. But yes, I see a very different side of the oil industry than most. When I first joined this board, @OVERKILL and I had a nice long conversation about cold start up wear. But otherwise, I don't really get involved in PCMO talk anymore because what I mentioned earlier. If you're not pushing the oil, then if it meets spec, it will probably be fine.
There is a lot of great info on this forum. My opinion, just comes from seeing a different part of the oil industry than most get to see. As a CLS, I was taught to be pretty brand agnostic over all, until it comes down to the application, which is dictated by the equipment and at the end of the day, the operator.
I'm brand agnostic when it comes to diesel lubes. I worked in a municipal fleet all my life, they used whatever was cheapest and it worked fine.
our problem wasn't bringing the vehicles in for service so much as having enough of them on the road to meet the PVR. PVR happened twice a day. PVR being Peak Vehicle requirement. PVR occurred twice a day, during rush hour.
OTR Truck Fleet has different requirements, basically the farther that vehicle can go between garage stops the more money it makes
whereas for us as a public transportation fleet the vehicles are always there, or only 15 to 20 miles away at most and all of them will be in the parking lot for certain times of the day... so we operated 24/7/365 and could do more vehicle maintenance in the off hours.
We could send something out that had a problem, we'd call it short tripping, knowing it would be back in a few hours, an OTR truck outfit can't do that.
Friend of mine is responsible for keeping Fire Trucks and Emergency vehicles running.
He has similar problems to my bus fleet example and has with the added problem that fire trucks and such have to run when they get called.. if a house is on fire , you gotta get there, right ?
Guess what I am saying is different duty cycles and businesses have differing requirements on what they can get away with and which things are primary concerns..
Just found this interesting thread, well after the fire was put out.
Foxtrot, I for one appreciate your perspective and willingness to post.
There are some on BITOG that get very overwhelmed when you post your opinion and observations and don’t provide proof that is acceptable to them. They are known to me as the DataBoyz. Nothing is acceptable to be discussed without proof or data. It is a BITOG pathology in my view. There are a handful of vocal posters who do this. Unfortunately in doing so, they shut down discussions that could go on more and actually accomplish something more. Good effort pushing through on your part. I’m very sure you have had many other things to do while spending time trying to argue your point with individuals who do not want to hear it, but really would rather cross-examine you for posting. Unfortunately some of those individuals are still held in high esteem, rather than being treated like the trolls they often are…
Anyway I appreciate your posts, and perspective, and I am capable of seeing it for what it is, rather than complaining about what it isn’t.
Foxtrot, I for one appreciate your perspective and willingness to post.
There are some on BITOG that get very overwhelmed when you post your opinion and observations and don’t provide proof that is acceptable to them. They are known to me as the DataBoyz. Nothing is acceptable to be discussed without proof or data. It is a BITOG pathology in my view. There are a handful of vocal posters who do this. Unfortunately in doing so, they shut down discussions that could go on more and actually accomplish something more. Good effort pushing through on your part. I’m very sure you have had many other things to do while spending time trying to argue your point with individuals who do not want to hear it, but really would rather cross-examine you for posting. Unfortunately some of those individuals are still held in high esteem, rather than being treated like the trolls they often are…
Anyway I appreciate your posts, and perspective, and I am capable of seeing it for what it is, rather than complaining about what it isn’t.
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Shell is actually totally British now, headquartered in London.
Major OEM or regional oem?
Major OEM, I don’t believe T4 is off the top of my head. I think all the major HDEO oem’s have gone to synthetic blends so it would be T5.
So they are filled at the factory brand new with T5?
The cost of maintenance applies to everything, including nuclear. The Vogtle nuclear plant has a shutdown every 18 months for maintenance and refuel. The plant is down for 3 weeks for this... to the cost of ~$1.5 million/day. That's just 1 reactor being down. That plant has 4 of them.
SammyChevelleTypeS3
$50 site donor 2023
SOME folks just NEED something to HATE on all of the time. I dont use their oil YET I certainly do not hate it.
Yeah. I can think of at least one major OEM that uses Rotella, I think, T5. The oem market is largely controlled by Chevron / Delo. But that’s more there bread and butter. Where as Shell likes to go after the O/O and fleet market.
I’m no oil, lube or fuel expert but I do carry bulk anything/everything into/out of refineries, lube and oil recovery plants, blending facilities and have talked to operators, lab folk and anyone that was around, asking the obvious questions most rednecks would ask in my position and my conclusion from those talks was to never ever believe what corporate marketing says about anything and buy the cheapest (insert blank) I can find.
Mopar uses Rotella T-6 for factory fill and dealerships service centers.
The irony in this is some of the cheapest (production wise) products are the most heavily marketed. Shell spends $55-60 mil/yr marketing Rotella. I'd rather put my trust in a company that invests much more into R&D than into marketing.
The 3rd Gen Ecodiesels get Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40 as the factory fill. (relabeled under Mopar) It fits their new MS-12991 spec which is more stringent than CK-4. Dealerships are putting in T6, likely not recognizing the different spec, and it's resulting in a high amount of warranty claims, usually for bearing problems. UOAs of those engines with T6 are grim looking, usually sheared out of grade with high Fe and Al. Here's one such case. The top 2 are Rotella T6 5W-40 and bottom 2 are HPL No VII Euro 10W-40. The middle one is also Rotella but only run for 1,000 miles.
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The eco-diesel is a POS and has been discontinued by Stelantis its about on line for the worst diesel engine next to what Nissan put into their titan. It’s not the oil it’s the material used in the engine. If a person was a critical thinker and it was the oil causing the issue there would be a billion dollar lawsuit against Shell.
Well there's a difference between "data" and "naming names". Foxtrot is keeping himself out of legal trouble which is different than pontificating "Hey this is great oil because it's really cheap and my bearings haven't seized."
There's not a billion dollar lawsuit because they don't call for CK-4. Shell also still provides their oil, just under Pennzoil's Euro oil. That's besides the point though. The matter at hand is what oil Mopar uses for the factory fill. It's not T6.
The higher wear with T6 isn't unique to the 3rd gen ecodiesel either.
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