Why is Mobil 1 such a lightning rod?

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: tig1
It's 32 years, and the M1 I use today is as good or better than any M1 I have ever used.


Are you sure about that?


Has been for myself and everyone I know that uses it exclusively.


How so?

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
He doesn't understand that this is just another edition of The Emperor's New Clothes. Blind devotion without merit in the light of criticism. Address the criticism instead of pretending it's invisible.

It's not serving M1 well. I fuels continued bashing.


Bashing was here at BITOG long before I heard of this site, and you know it. Blind devotion isn't the fruit of the exceptional experience I have with product.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: tig1
It's 32 years, and the M1 I use today is as good or better than any M1 I have ever used.


Are you sure about that?


Has been for myself and everyone I know that uses it exclusively.


How so?


Through engines that are running well with very high miles with no internal engine problems.

 

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Through engines that are running well with very high miles with no internal engine problems.


What does that tell you about the current Mobil 1 formulation?

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
He doesn't understand that this is just another edition of The Emperor's New Clothes. Blind devotion without merit in the light of criticism. Address the criticism instead of pretending it's invisible.

It's not serving M1 well. I fuels continued bashing.


Bashing was here at BITOG long before I heard of this site, and you know it. Blind devotion isn't the fruit of the exceptional experience I have with product.


Tig, man, I love you, pal! Really.

What I'm saying is that when you keep rhetorically defending it when there's stuff to be addressed, it has all the trimmings of a koolaid festival. You're not interested in the criticism, you're apparently (or so one would believe - purposely) blind to it. People are looking to figure these things out and you're preforming some act of interference "in service" to M1.

..but as far as bashing, be thankful that M1 is retail and not MLM.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Originally Posted By: Pete591


I agree...

Synthetic Oils:

-Extended drains

-Less sludge and varnish = cleaner.

-Better handling of heat.

-More shear resistant.

-Extra margin of protection.

-Better pumpability at low temperatures.

...wait...synthetics might be better!

Not one of those points can be convincingly demonstrated in a meaningful way for 90% of BitOGers.

 

[dsmith41]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie


-Extended drains

-Better handling of heat.

-Better pumpability at low temperatures.



Really, I don't think there is any question about those three right there. And btw, look at my sig line, 2/3 of my vehicles are on dino.

 

[saberz]

Mobil 1 as stated is the current flavor of the month in terms of controversy, only its been that way for several months. As with all things, so long as people have opinion they will voice it. There are pro's and con's to everything.

As far as synthetic vs conventional, its an entirely different topic and can be found searching the forums. Benefits are few and far between depending on who you speak to. Use what makes you sleep better at night.

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: Pete591


I agree...

Synthetic Oils:

-Extended drains

-Less sludge and varnish = cleaner.

-Better handling of heat.

-More shear resistant.

-Extra margin of protection.

-Better pumpability at low temperatures.

...wait...synthetics might be better!

Not one of those points can be convincingly demonstrated in a meaningful way for 90% of BitOGers.


Why do European cars spec synthetic oils? You have mentioned synthetic is spec'd in Euro cars for high-speed driving and extended drains. That takes care of the first five bullet points.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
You have mentioned synthetic is spec'd in Euro cars for high-speed driving and extended drains.


Is there anything in Europe that isn't spec'd for (at least) what we're allowed to call a synthetic? High speed or otherwise??

I'm wondering if they use conventional at all in passenger cars. I'm sure not all of them are of any higher speed capability than our passenger cars.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: jtaylor
The thing is, we are saying all of Mobil 1 is the same, when it clearly isn't. The ZDDP values are much higher for some of their oils than in other oils of theirs: 0w-40 and 15w-50 for example as compared to their 5w-20 and 5w30.

If you look at these values and run them in an engine (in equivalent viscosities obviously) at 7000rpm for a certain amount of time, you should logically see less high stress-type wear from the oil with more ZDDP.


I think you pointed out something that commonly gets missed. Mobil 1 has a few different product lines, with some very different products, and many different viscosities.

One cannot simply say that Mobil 1 is great or Mobil 1 is garbage without looking at what their application is and whether or not their choice of oil is suitable to that application.

What I like about Mobil is that there are lots of choices. I have an application in mind and select a product line and a viscosity, and I'm on my way. I can get higher ZDDP levels for my older truck. I can get something more robust for my Audi. I can get all varieties of viscosities for summer and winter, or one for both. Unfortunately, other very high quality products simply do not have the same selection.

I'd have no complaints about using PP or PU, if the former were available in an xw-40 grade; the latter isn't even available here, period.

 

[finalyzd]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Am I a total novice doodfood? Do you know more about oil then the people who point out the factual evidence about Mobil 1, and does that even matter?

Is Terry Dyson, who proclaimed that he sees more wear with Mobil 1 in his testing (and he concludes it's actual wear), a total novice?

Are the lawyers who obviously allow their clients at Valvoline, Castrol, and Quaker State to continue advertising that their products are superior to Mobil 1, novices?

I'm sorry some of you guys who tout a product don't like criticism, but it's not going to stop me or others from pointing out simple facts.



Drew,
Can I still point out facts of many family and friends using nothing but M1 with engines that have many miles on them(g200-300K+) with never any engine problems, like wear?


Mr. Tig your friends and family have a lot of high mileage engines wow

 

[Audi Junkie]

Originally Posted By: dsmith41
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie


-Extended drains

-Better handling of heat.

-Better pumpability at low temperatures.



Really, I don't think there is any question about those three right there. And btw, look at my sig line, 2/3 of my vehicles are on dino.


Oh really? Those statements are hardly demonstratable for 90% of BitOGers.

-Extended drains
Look at the UOA section. How many synth drains are really "extended"? Typically, everyone here is doing 6000-9000 miles drains, regardless of oil. Plenty of long (and successful) dino drains past 10k on the UOA forum. My Honda speced olms of 10k on dino.


-Better handling of heat

Show me the demonstration on that. The "cupcake roast" test showed LOTS of nasty deposits from M1 and RP, two of the most popular "flavors" here. I recall at least one dino oil doing well in that test. If someone wants to dig it out. From a Nissan Foum, iirc.

-Better pumpability at low temperatures

Ha! You're a sucker for listing that one. What's a mean winter temp in the USA...for "90%" of BitOGers, like +40f to maybe +50f? That's ~hardly~ the pumping limit difference between synth and dino! Let's even give some room for argument. I rarely see below 0f. What's the difference between dino and synth 5w30 at that or the typical cold day of +20f?

I bet PP 5w30 is not far behind M1 0w-30 at those temps. Certainly not a noticeable amount, probably 100cSt max.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: finalyzd
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Am I a total novice doodfood? Do you know more about oil then the people who point out the factual evidence about Mobil 1, and does that even matter?

Is Terry Dyson, who proclaimed that he sees more wear with Mobil 1 in his testing (and he concludes it's actual wear), a total novice?

Are the lawyers who obviously allow their clients at Valvoline, Castrol, and Quaker State to continue advertising that their products are superior to Mobil 1, novices?

I'm sorry some of you guys who tout a product don't like criticism, but it's not going to stop me or others from pointing out simple facts.



Drew,
Can I still point out facts of many family and friends using nothing but M1 with engines that have many miles on them(g200-300K+) with never any engine problems, like wear?


Mr. Tig your friends and family have a lot of high mileage engines wow


Yes, high mileage engines, not a handful of useless UOAs.

 

[Audi Junkie]

SO, UOAs are "useless"? That's just self-deception. I'm sure if M1 showed great UOAs, we'd hear a different tune.

Credibility = Lost

That declaration is technically "cherry picking" the data.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking

Cherry picking is the act of pointing at individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position, while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position.

Cherry picking can be found in many logical fallacies. For example, the "fallacy of anecdotal evidence" tends to overlook large amounts of data in favor of that known personally, while a false dichotomy picks only two options when more are available.

 

[tig1]

Audi,
Don't take offense. I said that for effect. Kinda like saying M1 will eat up your engine.

 

[Gene K]

Originally Posted By: vtb
I get it, somewhat. They are the market leader (?), and in some people's minds the best synthetic oil generally available. It just seems like Mobil 1 really polarizes people into two camps. It seems political, really.

1. Love it, have always used it, always will.

2. Look at the IRON!! I'll never touch the stuff!

3. And others who use it when it suits them (rebate, deal, whatever). I don't see this kind of hype around, say, PP, or SynPower, or QS Syns. Am I right, or am I missing some factor in these debates?


That basically sums it up. I fall under #3. I dont think of it as good or bad. Just a typical OTC Synthetic.

Conventional oil has improved so much its hard to prove theirs any real advantage to synthetic unless you have special circumstances. Extended Drain, Autobahn, Open Track, Engine Design Issues etc.

Its still hard for me to push a high horsepower car 10,000 miles on conventional. It may be baseless but I just feel better knowing I have a little extra TBN in the tank. Some synthetics dont start with any higher TBN but they seem to retain it better.

 

[tig1]

GeneK, Some oils do retain TBN better than others. A lot of that depends on the base oil formulation.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Audi,
Don't take offense. I said that for effect. Kinda like saying M1 will eat up your engine.

Oh, no. I don't take personal offense about a comment about an oil, but ironically that's what these guys are accusing YOU of. I have to say, some people DO take personal offense about non-personal items. It's common, and you should think about that a little bit, it's a personality...."thing".

What I said does require a disclaimer not to take it the wrong way, I'm being helpful.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Originally Posted By: tig1
Audi,
Don't take offense. I said that for effect. Kinda like saying M1 will eat up your engine.

Oh, no. I don't take personal offense about a comment about an oil, but ironically that's what these guys are accusing YOU of. I have to say, some people DO take personal offense about non-personal items. It's common, and you should think about that a little bit, it's a personality...."thing".

What I said does require a disclaimer not to take it the wrong way, I'm being helpful.


I never thought of that. Taking offense, that is over oil? I look at it as more of a contast than anything else.