Why Hybrid?

[eljefino]

The Atkinson cycle gas engine is more than 40% thermally efficient. That's insanely better than a conventional one. The issue is it works over a narrow powerband, has lower power density per cc, and is less fun to drive. But if you add a 60 hp electric motor with torque at zero RPM suddenly everything works splendidly.

A prius will have its gas engine running 99% of the time on the highway. It will still deliver great MPG thanks to the Atkinson cycle and good conventional aerodynamics.

The Prius is reliable because the engineers made it reliable. If they screwed it up it would have been embarrassing for the company and the entire premise of a hybrid. Half ton trucks get similar attention from engineers. Crackerboxes like Cavaliers and Escorts do not, or the bean-counters rule to the point of early failure.

Most hybrids also come with other drag-savers like electric power steering and electric AC. That's stuff that has to work at idle on a conventional car, so it's significantly oversized at cruise speed.

 

[eljefino]

Batteries, wiring, motor controls- Any issues? Prius battery replacement $2-4.5k +$1.5k labor, according to google search. Typical buyer will probably sell before that

My first prius cost $750 with a generic code reading "replace battery." I got it with 237k miles. I changed one $30 module myself in a couple hours and drove it to 303k miles.

A better code reader will tell you which pair of modules is bad. The dealer doesn't want to change just one module so will replace the whole thing. It is a gamble, but one I won.

 

[Cujet]

I'm not so sure that they're more unreliable.

I agree, they are very reliable, and long lived.

Second, the MPG difference is remarkable. I know the poster above says a Corolla gets 40MPG. When I rent them, I get somewhere between 26 and 32MPG. Never more than that. Same goes for the Accord 1.5L Turbo and Camry, neither get anywhere near the Hybrid version's MPG with me at the helm.

Yet the hybrid's do exceptionally well and will achieve stunning MPG in nearly all conditions.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Batteries, wiring, motor controls- Any issues? Prius battery replacement $2-4.5k +$1.5k labor, according to google search. Typical buyer will probably sell before that

The new model Rav4 hybrid had cable issue with the rear drive motor (that won't allow the car to move at all if it fails). OEM only part, costs like $5K. Toyota says they fixed it. Opinions on yes or no vary whether its actually fixed - will probably take time to prove out. Probably only an issue in areas with lots of road salt use, but still a bad design IMHO.

Not sure if the same cable design is used on other models. I read posters say the older models use a better connector - so again I wonder if Toyota is cheaping out?

Lots of threads out there on it. Here is one. https://www.rav4world.com/threads/corroded-high-voltage-cable-in-rav4-hybrid.327106/#replies

 

[JohnnyG]

Don't forget also that there are now several versions of hybrid vehicles. I've only had expierience with two kinds, the parallel system, as used in the Prius, will get you 50-60 mpg all the time.
The SERIES hybrid, such as that used in the Volt, will get you 200 MPGe at first, then about 40 when it switches to gasoline.
I know the Volt is long gone, but I saw a use case for it in 2014, and owned one.
Short trips to the grocery store, etc. and the gas engine never ran. It would go about 50 miles on battery only. Yet, when I moved to Florida, we drove it the entire way and never need to worry about charging. Just stop in a gas station like everyone else.
Of course those stops were a bit frequent since it only had about a 10 or 12 gallon fuel tank.

So yeah, they have a purpose. It just depends on your needs. I'd buy a series hybrid right now if they made a luxury sedan that got about 100 miles on all electric. BTW, top speed on battery was limited to 99 mph.

 

[2005jettatdi]

We have had our Accord hybrid since January. It is my wife's car. She is happy with it. Average mpg since purchase is about 51. That is going up with the warmer weather.

 

[andrew_j]

In the case of RAV4 the base engine is absolute dog especially low rpm. The hybrid electric motors are superior at low speed and instant 100% torque and speeds below 30 mph.

Another reason is brakes last a lot longer. The regeneration happening on slow down into generator/battery charging saves pads.

Some vehicles like Prius Prime have a vastly simpler AWD as they use electric motors to power rear wheels as needed instead of added complexity/fluid maintenance of conventional transfers case.

I am not sure they cost $5000 more. Some models like Landcruiser, Camry, Sienna are not available with ICE.

 

[willbur]

The new model Rav4 hybrid had cable issue with the rear drive motor (that won't allow the car to move at all if it fails). OEM only part, costs like $5K. Toyota says they fixed it. Opinions on yes or no vary whether its actually fixed - will probably take time to prove out. Probably only an issue in areas with lots of road salt use, but still a bad design IMHO.

Not sure if the same cable design is used on other models. I read posters say the older models use a better connector - so again I wonder if Toyota is cheaping out?

Lots of threads out there on it. Here is one. https://www.rav4world.com/threads/corroded-high-voltage-cable-in-rav4-hybrid.327106/#replies

View attachment 218806

Thanks- that's the kind of reliability stuff I was wondering about with the hybrids. Many techs refuse to work on them too bc of lack of very specialized training availability of repair info and tools. Like what I have read so far on this thread.

 

[fdcg27]

Why not?
The fuel savings negate the price premium over two or three years of use and as someone noted above, fuel is not trending cheaper. $5K doesn't buy anywhere near as much fuel as it once did, and the price premium is typically less than that at actual negotiated retail anyway.
I've been very pleased with the HAH and have found it to be really cheap to run in actual use.
Would I buy another?
Absolutely.
Complexity? The better automakers don't seem to have any problems with a little extra complication.
Contrary to what many on here profess, modern cars are more reliable and more durable than those of the past. You wanna drive an SBC pickup with windups and three on the tree? Why not, just don't delude yourself that you're driving something more reliable and less trouble prone than any decent hybrid.

 

[Hermann]

When I bought the hybrid Maverick the hybrid was standard. I have $27K in my XLT with Luxury Package. The average fuel cost has been a touch under 7¢ a mile. Thankfully mine has been reliable. About half the cost of feeding the F-150 with a N/A V-6. Most impressive is the hwy MPG I've been getting. Even with the barndoor aero package on the Maverick I have never got less than 35 mpg on a longer length trip. They will save money especially to folks who hold on to them. The biggest issue with the hybrid is people who say it must be terribly slow. I just say I'll run you ! If they are not sharp and quick off the line, Their mine,

 

[IveBeenRued]

Thanks- that's the kind of reliability stuff I was wondering about with the hybrids. Many techs refuse to work on them too bc of lack of very specialized training availability of repair info and tools. Like what I have read so far on this thread.

Toyota acknowledged the cable issue and has extended the warranty for the cables on the affected vehicles to 8Y/100K miles. https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2022/MC-10230381-9999.pdf

 

[meep]

Solid comments here. I think hybrids are the sweet spot right now if you can go that way. My ex had an 08 FEH and yes that was some years ago but even then it was a darn good car AND delivered on mpg. For the mileage she was doing, it was the smart move.

I don’t think BEV infrastructure is mature yet and the prices for entry are high. They work in certain use cases, quite well, and frankly, I’m of big fan of the concept if it works for the person. It doesn’t for us, yet.

But, hybrid gains good efficiency numbers while not being nearly as expensive or range-inconvenienced as a full battery vehicle. They are essentially gas vehicles with a quirky trait or two (electric CVT, etc) to make it work.

I’ll even give a nod to Chrysler/fiat/ram (whoever they are now) e-torque systems as a mild hybrid - good for 3 mpg and otherwise stays out of the way.

 

[BAJA_05]

Driving all back roads today picking up flowers to plant and placing a basket on my Mom's grave. Filled the tank this morning at a Shell Station --- 87 octane at $3.64 a gallon. All driving in Eco mode, why its illuminated green. LUV this gas sipper!!!

 

[ATex7239]

85K miles on Sienna Hybrid currently with no repairs. Easily capable of getting +35mpg hwy and city while fully loaded. Only maintenance needed on the hybrid system has been vacuuming out the filters periodically.

 

[TumblrDucks]

I like my hybrid - compare to the conventional Sonata, it does not save much gas, but it brings more tech, a better-looking dash, better NVH and an upgraded suspension package. So overall still a good deal for me.

And helps me avoiding the Theta 2 dumpster fire

 

[SC Maintenance]

Complexity? The better automakers don't seem to have any problems with a little extra complication.

For those designed between 1996 and 2008. During that time, you had all the goods and none of the bads.

Anything redesigned after 2009 started to take into account ever increasing cafe demands. Don't get me wrong, the mileage is awesome, but I sincerely doubt the 2019 Rav4 in my signature will last anywhere near as long as the other two in my sig, at least without major repairs. GDI + MPI. Lots of electric parts. Torque converter that locks in every gear. 8 Speed Transmission the size of a shoe box. Guess I will see.

 

[Patman]

I'm a big fan of hybrids, but it depends on your situation as to whether it will save you money or not. My girlfriend just recently replaced her 2013 BMW X3 with a 2018 Rav 4 Hybrid, and even though she now has a car payment again (about $300 a month), she saves close to that amount on gas every month right now, and the more she drives the more she will save (she's a real estate agent so she does a lot of driving, especially in the summer). She was only getting about 20 MPG in the X3, if that and now she's getting around 33 in the Rav 4. In the long run this purchase will save her a lot of money, especially when our gas prices go up above $2 a liter (which they are predicting for later this year) In my case though, I'm already averaging 47 MPG right now in my Civic so it would not really work for me to buy a hybrid, as most of them won't get all that much better mileage than that, except for the more expensive newer ones, but it would cost me $30,000 to $40,000 to trade up to one of those. That would take me 20+ years to make up that difference in fuel savings.

 

[97prizm]

Besides better gas milage, why buy a hybrid? The need to maintain two systems instead of one and the added complexity reducing reliability appears to rule out buying one for me. Perhaps it's the lower average purchase price ($42k vs $47k)? If true, that $5k can buy a lot of gas.
A news article quotes Toyota hybrid sales as being 40% of its car sales...

Back when the 2nd gen Toyota Prius came out they were showing that in the USA with at the time $2.50 /gal gas vs Europes $5/gal gas the payback on the vehicle was in Europe 4-6 years vs about 10-11 years in the USA.

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

I get this with zero effort on a crew cab truck. Back roads mostly. I have owned many hybrids with no issues.
View attachment 218791

Not a great sample size at 9 miles.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Here is some stuff on pricing and gas mileage on the 2024 Camry Hybrid.