Why do so many people want to run 0 weight oils?

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't want a 0WXX not in warm weather anyway. Most of them are group III and you got to wonder about the Noak and extra VII it might have versus a similar 5W- or 10W-. I still like a 5W- or even 10W- in warm weather/climates.



You're old school man...


Not really, it just goes against the grain here which IMO is a good thing as bitogers tend to be trend followers.

The original post mentioned running a 0w oil in a warm climate. I'm all for it in very cold climates or where you're always short tripping it and the oil never gets to full temp and viscosity anyway. I've run it in my TL when I worked in Tahoe.

Other than that, give me the higher HTHS for less wear and lower NOACK of the 5w or 10w.

There comes a point especially in the summer time where pressure is just about instant. I've never understood going with a thinner oil and giving up that HTHS and NOACK just for something that has to be measured in miliseconds.

He has a good point about VIIs too. I doubt the 0w-20 has much more but there's a good chance many 5w-20s are close to a straight weight while I would be very surprised if any 0w-20s are made without VIIs.

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't want a 0WXX not in warm weather anyway. Most of them are group III and you got to wonder about the Noak and extra VII it might have versus a similar 5W- or 10W-. I still like a 5W- or even 10W- in warm weather/climates.

I tow 10,000+ lbs(my backhoe)in the summer with my 225,000 mile z71 on a diet of 0w30 you going to tell me thats not severe service? it's still a 30w @ op temp!

i would also bet there not mostly grpIII not with the PP you see.

 

[CharlieJ]

Yay BuickGN is back! Low NOACK and higher HTHS is what I look for in an oil. PP 10w-30 is next in my Mazda3.

 

[Texan4Life]

I'm gonna take flak for this but here are my thoughts.

What about when your engine is not up to operating temp yet?

How does the engine wear with light oils 0, 5, 10 weight?

most people wouldn't want to run a straight 5 weight right? so how is the lighter oil better for your engine when it is not up to temp as far as wear is concerned?

 

[Colt45ws]

Its still thicker than hot oil. For example Redline 0W20 is 43cSt at 40C (104F). Redline 10W60 is 25cSt at 100C (212F).

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

how did engines ever last on 10w-xx oils?

 

[CATERHAM]

Truth is most engines are very tolerant of the oil grade used.
Having stated that, if for the sake of argument the optimum viscosity of an oil is 10cSt as represented by a 30wt at 100C then even the lightest oil that you can buy (Toyota 0W-20) is too thick at all temps until reaching 90C (194F).

Running 0W-XX oils simply gives you better lubrication during the critcal warm-up period and in most applications that can be as much as 90% of an engines operating time even in the warm summer months.

 

[CourierDriver]

I ve got a headache

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Truth is most engines are very tolerant of the oil grade used.
Having stated that, if for the sake of argument the optimum viscosity of an oil is 10cSt as represented by a 30wt at 100C then even the lightest oil that you can buy (Toyota 0W-20) is too thick at all temps until reaching 90C (194F).

Running 0W-XX oils simply gives you better lubrication during the critcal warm-up period and in most applications that can be as much as 90% of an engines operating time even in the warm summer months.


Exactly! In some cases it can take 20-30 minutes for oil to reach operating temps. It is during that time getting to operating temps the most wear occurs, the 0W-xx oil will protect best during that time. For many people living in metro areas their engine oil will never reach operating temps.

Yes engines lasted a long time with 10W-xx oils, newer designed engines and better oils have engines lasting a lot longer now.

 

[ZZman]

I wonder how much that little extra flow makes?

A zero weight oil might have a pour point of -50. A 5w might have a pour point of -45. If you get no where near these pour points how much difference does it make? Especially if you are in a warm climate where your oil might stay above 50 degrees all the time.

I wonder if there is truly that much flow difference in moderate weather or even at 0 degrees between the 0 and 5w oils. (Most videos I have seen show oils at their pour points not at something like 0 or 32 degrees.)

Isn't there supposed to be some advantage to keeping the viscosity spread small? (example a 5w30 instead of a 0w-40)

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: ZZman
I wonder how much that little extra flow makes?

A zero weight oil might have a pour point of -50. A 5w might have a pour point of -45. If you get no where near these pour points how much difference does it make? Especially if you are in a warm climate where your oil might stay above 50 degrees all the time.



IIRC Dr. Haas's article answers that question. It's been a while since I read it, but it might be worth having a look. Also the pour point of the oil is a very small part of the equation.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Running 0W-XX oils simply gives you better lubrication during the critcal warm-up period and in most applications that can be as much as 90% of an engines operating time even in the warm summer months.


I don't know if I would say that. I'd say that the only effect that these 0w oils have, under the same confines as your statement (90%), would be in terms of parasitic losses. You've still got to deal with the conventions (schools of thought) in regard to additive activation and total thermal saturation of the engine (aka: the first 20 minutes of operation). Well beyond the range where a 5w vs. 0w (broader VI) of like 100C visc fluid will be separated by more than some time phase relationship ..and that phase difference will only be limited to visc. The time to temp will be about the same.


But as to the OP's question. We tend to buy things that we perceive as the best. We aren't required to utilize them in that capacity.

 

[Patman]

Mark my words: in 10-15 years time (maybe less) the two most common viscosities of oil in new cars will be 0w10 and 0w20.

 

[SpitfireS]

Hmmm....

I think Gary is saying: (correct me if I'm wrong

)
1 - you've got a certain mass (engine block, pistons, crank, oil!) that needs to be warmed up.
2 - The burning of fuel in that particular engine generates a certain amount of thermal energy.
3 - It takes that thermal energy a certain amount of time to get that mass to operating temp.
4 - viscosity of the oil is not a factor in this.
5 - engine design may not be a factor in this.

Adding an oil-to-coolant heat exchanger (changing the design!) will make things better / warm up the engine & oil quicker.

Why am I using a 0W oil?

I fail to see what parasites have to do with this though....

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
We tend to buy things that we perceive as the best. We aren't required to utilize them in that capacity.


This hits close to home Gary as I can sometimes see this in me.

 

[Texan4Life]

Quote:
It is during that time getting to operating temps the most wear occurs, the 0W-xx oil will protect best during that time.


this is what I can't wrap my head around.

If a light weight oil provides the best protection why not run that light of a weight at operating temperature too?

 

[Oldwolf]

I got tired reading all the comments but want to say I am using 0w40 in my Explorer.

 

[Nayov]

I use it because it eliminated the start-up rattle in my VQ40 (Frontier). I don't believe in miracles, but this comes close.

 

[Silber Igel]

Originally Posted By: daman
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I don't want a 0WXX not in warm weather anyway. Most of them are group III and you got to wonder about the Noak and extra VII it might have versus a similar 5W- or 10W-. I still like a 5W- or even 10W- in warm weather/climates.

I tow 10,000+ lbs(my backhoe)in the summer with my 225,000 mile z71 on a diet of 0w30 you going to tell me thats not severe service? it's still a 30w @ op temp!

i would also bet there not mostly grpIII not with the PP you see.


Amen Brother! Done the same in my Sienna towing a travel trailer.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Texan4Life
this is what I can't wrap my head around.

If a light weight oil provides the best protection why not run that light of a weight at operating temperature too?

Sounds like your understanding is that a 0w-30 starts thin and gets thicker as it heats up. That's not the case. ALL oils get thick when cold and get thinner when hot. The W number gives you an idea of HOW MUCH thicker it gets when cold. In general, the higher the W number, the thicker the oil gets when cold.

A 0w-30 is like molasses in cold temps compared to when it's warm. The main difference between it and a 10w-30 is that the 0w-30 will still be pumpable at temps that would turn the 10w-30 into Jello.