why do red light tickets not go on record?

Pew

Messages
1,011
Location
Illinois
Originally Posted by SevenBizzos
Originally Posted by Pew
Red light cams have been removed from most if not all City of Chicago streets after a lawsuit for the fact that you 1.) have the right to face your accuser and 2.) there's no way of knowing who was driving.
I'm not sure where you are getting that info from. Chicago is at the top of the list of number of red light and speed cameras. 300 intersection cameras at least. You can read more about this program here: Chicago Red Light Camera Program They've had the usual corruption and kickback issues with it, as is typical of Chicago, but the program remains.
Dang, I thought I remembered reading an article a few years ago about how the city was sued over the red light cams and were forced to remove them.
 
Messages
4,216
Location
South Carolina
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Originally Posted by SeaJay
The ticket is legal, and it is against the owner of the car. Doesn't matter who is driving, the owner is on the hook for the fine. They may not be going aggressively after the owners to pay up, but they are within their rights to pull out all of the stops if they wanted to. The only thing stopping them now is the political back lash. I expect that to change someday as governments want any and all money that can be extracted from their residents and visitors without political penalties, such as being voted out of office. That is the only real defense citizens have against these money grabs.
So what's the point of the driving license then and why stop at red light tickets?
Because if a cop see's you, you might get a ticket if you dont stop at the red light!!! Because if you are caught doing any type of driving breaking the law by a police officer you or whoever is driving your car will be charged. HOWEVER if your car, not you, is caught breaking the law by a camera instead of a police officer, the owner of the vehicle will be fined. The reason you will not be charged is because there is no proof of who was behind the wheel. its NO DIFFERENT then getting a parking ticket! The driver doesnt get the ticket, the vehicle/owner gets the ticket. So the vehicles owner will be fined and not charged with a crime or offense but he/she is responsible for safe operation on his/her vehicle on public highways, going through red lights is not safe operation. The buck stops with you, the owner! Real simple stuff and for the third time, I dont understand why anyone is against enforcing the law. Many INNOCENT lives are lost by read light runners, speeders ect ... yet some of the public, many, are against government actually doing something that is efficient to enforce the law. Red lights cameras AND speeding cameras for the interstates. Technology is there for everything. Heck, you get fined on the NYS throughway if you make it from one exit to another too quickly. In SC a police department had to take their cameras down on I95 that was catching speeders with super efficiency via a camera video taping the speeding vehicle with a read out of the radar speed. The corrupt press jumped all over it because it did its job too well. States and politicians talk about reducing deaths on the roads but its just BS talk, because all the technology is there.
 
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Messages
5,988
Location
Houston, Texas
Besides everyone is on their phones now so most people let the green light turn on for 5 or 6 seconds before moving giving the red light guys plenty of time. I've seen cars sit until it turned red again.
 
Messages
9,373
Location
Canuck living in California
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Real simple stuff and for the third time, I dont understand why anyone is against enforcing the law. Many INNOCENT lives are lost by read light runners, speeders ect ... yet some of the public, many, are against government actually doing something that is efficient to enforce the law. Red lights cameras AND speeding cameras for the interstates.
I could agree with most of your above post, except this bit. Please read up on how the yellow light duration is shortened below the reaction time levels on intersections where drivers adjusted their driving to avoid red light tickets and that revenue stream started to perform worse than planned. Its simply another recenue stream disguised as a safety measure.
 
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Messages
7,170
Location
North Carolina
Exactly. Red light cameras go up, and yellow lights get shorter. Put speed cameras on the highway and watch for more speed limit changes along routes. Same crap in Germany. They put the cameras right next to the [censored] speed limit sign and if you're not under by the sign, you get popped.
 
Messages
6,065
Location
KY
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Exactly. Red light cameras go up, and yellow lights get shorter. Put speed cameras on the highway and watch for more speed limit changes along routes. Same crap in Germany. They put the cameras right next to the [censored] speed limit sign and if you're not under by the sign, you get popped.
Yes, it's all about the revenue stream. The people who want cameras everywhere must think that the book 1984 had a happy ending.
 
Messages
8,440
Location
Virginia
Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Exactly. Red light cameras go up, and yellow lights get shorter. Put speed cameras on the highway and watch for more speed limit changes along routes. Same crap in Germany. They put the cameras right next to the [censored] speed limit sign and if you're not under by the sign, you get popped.
Yes, it's all about the revenue stream. The people who want cameras everywhere must think that the book 1984 had a happy ending.
Exactly ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^✓✓✓✓
 
Messages
4,216
Location
South Carolina
Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Exactly. Red light cameras go up, and yellow lights get shorter. Put speed cameras on the highway and watch for more speed limit changes along routes. Same crap in Germany. They put the cameras right next to the [censored] speed limit sign and if you're not under by the sign, you get popped.
Yes, it's all about the revenue stream. The people who want cameras everywhere must think that the book 1984 had a happy ending.
1984, your already there so why not enforce the law? Your perception of 1984 isnt reality and using traffic tickets is the poorest of all examples. Your license plate can be tracked almost anywhere you drive, your face can be tracked anyplace you go and almost no one cares about that or raises an objection. In the name of free services you and almost everyone willingly allows google and all internet companies to track your private information and that of your children (even scan your gmail account emails!) on your computer, package that usage and put it up for auction that is sold on the world market to the highest bidder and no one cares or raises an objection, except the EU is ahead of us when it comes to privacy. Massive amounts of money are made on the actioning of Americans private information from their smart phones and computers, most people have no clue the profits in this industry and the salaries. What does one think? Google out of its sweet little heart spends tens of BILLIONS of dollars a year to give you free stuff with no profit? :o) What do you think, these companies are using your information to better your life? They know you better then you know yourself, they know what ads to display for example and there are WAY more sinister ways to control peoples thoughts, but I am getting off subject (yes I know, again *L*) So a traffic ticket is more private then anything you are doing right now on your computer, a ticket is nothing compared to it.. All I am saying is, government does nothing efficient and when they actually can such as automated vehicle violations, people object until god forbid a loved one is involved in an accident that could have been prevented, then we scream where is the enforcement. Death tolls on americas roadways are always blamed by the media on lack of enforcement, if the pubic cared, they would allow technology to enforce it. Look at the police operations for enforcing the law on the roadways, what has advanced in the last 4 decades? Nothing, because its a government agency that annoys people if it is to effective and who cares if the violators support the system? I mean like, hello? That would be nice for a change. Know any company in the world that still does the same procedure for the last 4 decades without improvement in efficiency? Just having fun here and making some points, dont get all upset over my posts :o)
 
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Messages
5
Location
Boston
in MA they do go on record. i was pulled over by a state. i fought it too but only had it reduced to $75 from $250. it has been in my record since the year it happened 2015. here it falls off records after 5 years
 
Messages
9,373
Location
Canuck living in California
Alarmguy, you keep bringing up the safety aspect, but how does reducing the yellow light time improve safety? The camera system has nothing to do with privacy, at least that's not my point. I don't expect any privacy in public or public roads. If safety was the primary goal, nobody would temper with yellow light duration.
 
Messages
6,065
Location
KY
Again, speed and red light cameras are nothing more than profit centers- and the fact that they are are glowingly endorsed by the Safety Gestapo makes them even more reprehensible in my book.
 
Messages
4,216
Location
South Carolina
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Alarmguy, you keep bringing up the safety aspect, but how does reducing the yellow light time improve safety? The camera system has nothing to do with privacy, at least that's not my point. I don't expect any privacy in public or public roads. If safety was the primary goal, nobody would temper with yellow light duration.
I cant answer your question because it isnt based on proof/fact and honestly can be the situation for any stop light. For example a police officer can sit and ticket cars at a light with a short yellow light time. Your saying they shorten yellow light times because its a camera stop light, sorry dont believe it, but, there is corruption in any agency, so if you live in one of those areas, demand it be corrected. Its not an excuse to allow people to run red lights, speed, or break the law. If you know of wrong doing, then you need your public representatives to correct it. Its no different then being pulled over by a police officer. There must be a standard in your state, heck, government has a standard for everything, on the amount of yellow light time, if you feel cheated by a ticket, go to the light, time it, and tell the judge the results. Again, no different then if you got pulled over by a police car. I think, safe to say, most people with this yellow light time complaint, regularly push the limits through yellow and why the opposition.
 
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Messages
4,216
Location
South Carolina
Originally Posted by MCompact
Again, speed and red light cameras are nothing more than profit centers- and the fact that they are are glowingly endorsed by the Safety Gestapo makes them even more reprehensible in my book.
Profit centers, very rare in government are good, paid for by people who break the law, normally taxpayers have to pay for them but not in this case, the violators will keep my taxes lower. Heck, even I may have to chip in once in a while, but that is ok! *L*
 
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Messages
17,302
Location
OH
Originally Posted by WhyMe
in my state of Wa, red light ticket do not go on one record. of course every state is different, but i always wondered why they don't go on ones driving record. Seems like just a money grab then
Probably because these aren't real citations and are not legally enforceable by anything other than a civil action by the vendor that installed the cameras, which won't happen since the cost exceeds the potential gain. In almost every state, these "citations" can be safely ignored and thrown in the recycling bin. This mode of traffic enforcement was promoted by the camera vendors, who given enabling legislation and a contract from a locality will install and operate their systems for free with the municipality getting maybe 30-40% of the gross take. This works only until enough local drivers figure out that they can safely ignore these demands for funds. I've ignored two such bogus "citations" over the past ten years with no consequences at all. In Ohio, the legal record surrounding these devices has been mixed. The state legislature passed a law saying that while localities could contract for such systems, their share of revenue from the state would be reduced by exactly that amount they took in with these systems while a small village was ordered to pay back well into seven figures based upon the revenue it collected from such systems plus interest. As many noted above, these photo radar and red light camera systems are nothing more than a money grab and do nothing to promote traffic safety.
 
Messages
4,216
Location
South Carolina
Originally Posted by fdcg27
Originally Posted by WhyMe
in my state of Wa, red light ticket do not go on one record. of course every state is different, but i always wondered why they don't go on ones driving record. Seems like just a money grab then
Probably because these aren't real citations and are not legally enforceable by anything other than a civil action by the vendor that installed the cameras, which won't happen since the cost exceeds the potential gain. ... As many noted above, these photo radar and red light camera systems are nothing more than a money grab and do nothing to promote traffic safety.
I think you are looking at it wrong, of course they are real citations. Just like parking tickets are real citations, exactly the same, no difference what so ever. Im sure somewhere in your state, parking tickets are issued. Your statement - Enforcing the law is doing nothing to promote public safety is like saying tell all the police to stop writing speeding and red light tickets, since we need no deterrents to prevent lawlessness. Heck, red light cameras and automated speeding cameras and well as the toll booth ticket system in New York State do far more to prevent deaths then police cars, if they rolled them out nation wide you would see a significant reduction in deaths, IF that is what the public wanted, less deaths on the highways. To me its more the public saying its a great political talking point as long as I can continue to speed and run red lights.
 
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Messages
9,879
Location
New England
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Originally Posted by SeaJay
The ticket is legal, and it is against the owner of the car. Doesn't matter who is driving, the owner is on the hook for the fine. They may not be going aggressively after the owners to pay up, but they are within their rights to pull out all of the stops if they wanted to. The only thing stopping them now is the political back lash. I expect that to change someday as governments want any and all money that can be extracted from their residents and visitors without political penalties, such as being voted out of office. That is the only real defense citizens have against these money grabs.
So what's the point of the driving license then and why stop at red light tickets?
Because if a cop see's you, you might get a ticket if you dont stop at the red light!!! Because if you are caught doing any type of driving breaking the law by a police officer you or whoever is driving your car will be charged. HOWEVER if your car, not you, is caught breaking the law by a camera instead of a police officer, the owner of the vehicle will be fined. The reason you will not be charged is because there is no proof of who was behind the wheel. its NO DIFFERENT then getting a parking ticket! The driver doesnt get the ticket, the vehicle/owner gets the ticket. So the vehicles owner will be fined and not charged with a crime or offense but he/she is responsible for safe operation on his/her vehicle on public highways, going through red lights is not safe operation. The buck stops with you, the owner! Real simple stuff and for the third time, I dont understand why anyone is against enforcing the law. Many INNOCENT lives are lost by read light runners, speeders ect ... yet some of the public, many, are against government actually doing something that is efficient to enforce the law. Red lights cameras AND speeding cameras for the interstates. Technology is there for everything. Heck, you get fined on the NYS throughway if you make it from one exit to another too quickly. In SC a police department had to take their cameras down on I95 that was catching speeders with super efficiency via a camera video taping the speeding vehicle with a read out of the radar speed. The corrupt press jumped all over it because it did its job too well. States and politicians talk about reducing deaths on the roads but its just BS talk, because all the technology is there.
People are against revenue cameras because they are crooked...and they DO NOT WORK. One common tactic is to shorten the yellow light...and the cameras often INCREASE crashes. The solution to revenue cameras is a good rifle.
 
Messages
4,216
Location
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Originally Posted by alarmguy
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Originally Posted by SeaJay
The ticket is legal, and it is against the owner of the car. Doesn't matter who is driving, the owner is on the hook for the fine. They may not be going aggressively after the owners to pay up, but they are within their rights to pull out all of the stops if they wanted to. The only thing stopping them now is the political back lash. I expect that to change someday as governments want any and all money that can be extracted from their residents and visitors without political penalties, such as being voted out of office. That is the only real defense citizens have against these money grabs.
So what's the point of the driving license then and why stop at red light tickets?
Because if a cop see's you, you might get a ticket if you dont stop at the red light!!! Because if you are caught doing any type of driving breaking the law by a police officer you or whoever is driving your car will be charged. HOWEVER if your car, not you, is caught breaking the law by a camera instead of a police officer, the owner of the vehicle will be fined. The reason you will not be charged is because there is no proof of who was behind the wheel. its NO DIFFERENT then getting a parking ticket! The driver doesnt get the ticket, the vehicle/owner gets the ticket. So the vehicles owner will be fined and not charged with a crime or offense but he/she is responsible for safe operation on his/her vehicle on public highways, going through red lights is not safe operation. The buck stops with you, the owner! Real simple stuff and for the third time, I dont understand why anyone is against enforcing the law. Many INNOCENT lives are lost by read light runners, speeders ect ... yet some of the public, many, are against government actually doing something that is efficient to enforce the law. Red lights cameras AND speeding cameras for the interstates. Technology is there for everything. Heck, you get fined on the NYS throughway if you make it from one exit to another too quickly. In SC a police department had to take their cameras down on I95 that was catching speeders with super efficiency via a camera video taping the speeding vehicle with a read out of the radar speed. The corrupt press jumped all over it because it did its job too well. States and politicians talk about reducing deaths on the roads but its just BS talk, because all the technology is there.
People are against revenue cameras because they are crooked...and they DO NOT WORK. One common tactic is to shorten the yellow light...and the cameras often INCREASE crashes. The solution to revenue cameras is a good rifle.
Those people also say the police are crooked, they say the meter maid is corrupt when you get a ticket too. If the camera doesnt work right, you can go to court. Its all hearsay about the "tactics" to shorten the yellow light, gosh, a couple instances of anything in this country of over 300 million people, hits the internet and gets blown way, way out of proportion much the same as a corrupt policemen. There is good and bad in the world but the good still wins and the vast majority of traffic controls both electronic and police work correctly. Its part of being in a society. Not everything is perfect, but you do have recourse if its not.
 
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Messages
6,065
Location
KY
Red-Light Cameras Texas Is Latest State to Pump the Brakes on Red-Light Cameras Some suburbs take only seconds to review red light camera citations, analysis shows Red-light cameras come under fire, at least 7 states trying to ban them Over the past 33 years I've served as both a judge and-currently-a prosecutor. I've found that the vast majority of police are honest and hard working; the bad ones are relatively easy to spot. However, this year alone my office has dismissed multiple charges because it was my opinion that a search was bad or the crime charged did not reflect the actual conduct- all but a couple reflected mistakes made in good faith, but we are prosecuting one officer for gross misconduct. That said, I've had the support of law enforcement in every election going back to 1986. Red-light and speed cameras are a scam because the private companies that operate them make money based on the number of citations issued- as does the municipality contracting with them, It's akin to the states where the money generated from traffic tickets is retained by the city or county where the citation is written- which is why you see lots of interstate speed traps run by city/county police in those states. There is a monetary incentive to pump out more citations And don't get me started on Federal Overtime(FOT)- which requires officers to make four "contacts"(charge four traffic infractions) every hour(but don't call it a quota). When I presided in traffic court most all of the officers wrote "FOT" on those citations to let me know they were ticky-tack garbage and it was fine with them if I dismissed or deferred them. My father was an attorney, a law school professor, and a judge. One of the best pieces of advice he ever gave me was, "When a client or witness says 'It's not about the money, it's the principle." you can be 100% certain it is ALL about the money." And so it is with red-light and speed cameras.
 
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