why is it i have some oil on my air filter?? its not visible but if i put it on a box for a day oil starts to go onto the box just like if i were to out a wet towel on a box the box would absorb the water. is this normal?? i am noticing it in all my filters 99 mercury villiger, 91 accord. is it cause im using fram??
why do i have oil on filter?
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Engines have a crankcase ventilation system usually which draws air from the engine and reburns it through the air cleaner. A small amount of vaporized oil can come along with the air and deposit on the air filter element. How old are these air filters before you notice the oil? If they are a high mileage filter then it is probably normal. If this is happening on a new filter then you could have a problem with the PCV valve.....plugged or malfunctioning.
well its about a year old....sometimes i check in about 6 months and i dont realyl see much of any oil....i replaced my pcv valve just recently though and maybe that was the problem. but what gets me is in my moms van. she has one of those fram fitlers that filters more "x2" and it catches dirt like crazy...after about 3000 miles there is quite a bit of oil on the filter when i do my "cardboard box test" but thats after letting it sit for about 2 hrs. her car stutters on idle though and no one knows why it does that. maybe thats the reason...ill do a check up on my car again to see how its doing...
It's called blow-by...could be from a plugged PVC vent or tube due to freezing of the condensation in them...then warming up when the engine compartment heats up ,causing it to thaw...then the cycle will begin again next ice cold shut-down...or you got a bad ring on one or more pistons buddy...you can do a compression check to get the ring thing off the books,then check for blockages in the vent system.
Oil filters can get oil from exhaust of the cars in front of you. I have to drive around trucks back and forth to work. Many times when I get home there are spots of oil on my windshield.
I think most filters nowadays are far enough from the PCV systems that the filter shouldn't see significant crankcase vapors. I've never found my intake tube downstream of the air filter to be sooty (except one time years ago when I tried a K&N filter, yuk!)
I think most filters nowadays are far enough from the PCV systems that the filter shouldn't see significant crankcase vapors. I've never found my intake tube downstream of the air filter to be sooty (except one time years ago when I tried a K&N filter, yuk!)
The previous posts are right on. There is either a bad PCV / CCV system or excessive blow by occuring. Jeep 4.0l inline six engines are notorious for this issue. Generally, the first place to look is the PCV /CCV system. Check the valves and tubing for any blockages. On the 4.0, there is no PCV, but there is a small orifice that over time tends to clog and needs cleaning. When those tubes clog up, oily engine vapors get thrown back into the air filter box. If fixing those issues doesn't work, then you probably need to compression test the engine and find a bad ring somewhere.
This is true but his vehicle is only a year old..the Jeep thing happens with old age..as did my Chevy...it's either a blockage or rings.quote:
Originally posted by dickwells:
As an engine ages, the first condition where the blowby will overpower the pcv system is WO throttle. This is when the manifold vacuum is at its lowest and the blowby is at its highest. Under these conditions the blowby can be high enough that it reverses the flow in the fresh air intake and blows oil into the intake system. I think this is why some diagrams have arrows pointing both ways in the fresh air intake of the PCV system. Or maybe not
Holy moly..are you driving behind the Bond car when the oil slick button was pushedquote:
Originally posted by S2000driver:
Oil filters can get oil from exhaust of the cars in front of you. I have to drive around trucks back and forth to work. Many times when I get home there are spots of oil on my windshield.
I think most filters nowadays are far enough from the PCV systems that the filter shouldn't see significant crankcase vapors. I've never found my intake tube downstream of the air filter to be sooty (except one time years ago when I tried a K&N filter, yuk!)
I have noticed this also on my original Miata filter. It must be fairly common with newer cars but I haven't seen it on my older car filters.
PCV system would be the suspect.
PCV system would be the suspect.
The person who started the thread said they noticed the problem on a couple different cars. Therefore, I have a hard time believing both cars have faulty PCV systems simulatneously. The only other way I see the crankcase vapors getting to the air filter is after the engine is shut off.
As for oil, I wasn't suggesting that large drops of oil get to the filter. I was just stating that oil getting through truck exhausts are so bad at times they are in a liquid state on my windshield. As you drive in traffic, part of what is in the air behind other vehicles is volatile molecular compounds that are oil-based from exhaust. Since they are volatile, they can indeed make it the whole way to the filter where they are stopped.
As for oil, I wasn't suggesting that large drops of oil get to the filter. I was just stating that oil getting through truck exhausts are so bad at times they are in a liquid state on my windshield. As you drive in traffic, part of what is in the air behind other vehicles is volatile molecular compounds that are oil-based from exhaust. Since they are volatile, they can indeed make it the whole way to the filter where they are stopped.
quote:
Originally posted by Greaser:
Holy moly..are you driving behind the Bond car when the oil slick button was pushed.Specks of oil on the windsheild from a clunker..sure seen that happen...but to get ingested thru your fresh air intake to the point where it shows on your filter...highly unlikely....it has to travel thru your rad,rad cradle,spinning fan then find it's way into your air intake opening...thats some marvel mystery oil there
Mr.2000..if you are blowing oil to the point where it is flying out the exhaust pipe and splattering on the car behind you,that engine is totally baffed out and should be off the road.Around here ,with smog police cruisin' the streets, an oil dripping exhast pipe is an instant call for a wrecker by the officer.Blow-by soaking an air filter, in a newer car, is either a bad ring or a lousy oil baffle design on the engine.
How can you have oil in the air filter from the PCV, when the air filter is pretty far upstream of the PCV outlet on the intake tube or intake manifold? You'd have to have a backfire of somesort, where air went backwards through the engine, wouldn't you?
It depends on where your fresh air souce for the PCV system is coming from. When the PCV system fails, the vapors have to go somewhere, and they go back through the fresh air intake of the PCV systems. On systems where this source is right at the airbox, like my Jeep, you will get oil all over the filter. On systems where the PCV intake is further up in the fresh air intake, you won't get the oil on the filter, like my F150's.
[ March 04, 2003, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: MNgopher ]
[ March 04, 2003, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: MNgopher ]
As an engine ages, the first condition where the blowby will overpower the pcv system is WO throttle. This is when the manifold vacuum is at its lowest and the blowby is at its highest. Under these conditions the blowby can be high enough that it reverses the flow in the fresh air intake and blows oil into the intake system. I think this is why some diagrams have arrows pointing both ways in the fresh air intake of the PCV system. Or maybe not
If you are getting oil on your air filter you are also very likely getting oil on your mass air flow sensor. The MAS/MAF is very sensitive to contamination and may be dirty and causing the rough idle.
Here is a copy of an e-mail from snapon.com about Ford MAF.
Tech Tip: Clean the MAF
Application: 1990-1999 Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Ford Truck with Mass-Air-Flow Sensor (MAF)
Symptoms: Lacks power, rough idle, surge, hesitation, ping/knock, MIL on with one or more of the following codes. OBD-I: 171, 172, 173, 175, 176, 177, 179, 181, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189. OBD-II: P0171, P0172, P0174, P0175, P1130, P1131, P1132, P1150, P1151, P1152.
Theory: The MAF sensor uses very thin wires or filaments in the air-stream to "read" the amount of air entering the engine. If the PCM is being given an incorrect air flow reading, it won't be able to meter the correct amount of fuel. The PCM will "learn" of the incorrect fuel metering by the O2 sensor signals and try to compensate, but will eventually reach a point where drivability problems arise. Even on properly maintained vehicles, a coating will build up on the filaments and insulate them from the air passing by and cause an incorrect reading. Poor maintenance and paper "fuzz" from cheap air filters will cause the build up to occur sooner.
The Test: The quickest thing to do is hook up a scanner and watch MAF data. As a general rule, if the MAF voltage is over 1.1v at idle and/or the long-term-fuel-trim (LONGFT) is negative 12% or more, the MAF is in need of service.
The Fix: Remove the actual sensing part of the MAF from its housing and clean the filaments. To do this, unplug it and remove the tamper-proof-Torx screws. Carefully pull the sensor out. You will now be able to see the filaments. Even if they look shiny to the naked eye, there can still be a build-up on them. The safest way to clean them is Denatured-Alcohol and a swab. Never soak the sensor or spray anything directly on it. Wet the swab with the alcohol and gently rub the filaments on all exposed sides. After installing the MAF, disconnect the negative battery cable for 10 minutes minimum to clear the PCM's memory. Reconnect battery and test drive to re-learn PCM and to make sure the problems are gone.
Here is a copy of an e-mail from snapon.com about Ford MAF.
Tech Tip: Clean the MAF
Application: 1990-1999 Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Ford Truck with Mass-Air-Flow Sensor (MAF)
Symptoms: Lacks power, rough idle, surge, hesitation, ping/knock, MIL on with one or more of the following codes. OBD-I: 171, 172, 173, 175, 176, 177, 179, 181, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189. OBD-II: P0171, P0172, P0174, P0175, P1130, P1131, P1132, P1150, P1151, P1152.
Theory: The MAF sensor uses very thin wires or filaments in the air-stream to "read" the amount of air entering the engine. If the PCM is being given an incorrect air flow reading, it won't be able to meter the correct amount of fuel. The PCM will "learn" of the incorrect fuel metering by the O2 sensor signals and try to compensate, but will eventually reach a point where drivability problems arise. Even on properly maintained vehicles, a coating will build up on the filaments and insulate them from the air passing by and cause an incorrect reading. Poor maintenance and paper "fuzz" from cheap air filters will cause the build up to occur sooner.
The Test: The quickest thing to do is hook up a scanner and watch MAF data. As a general rule, if the MAF voltage is over 1.1v at idle and/or the long-term-fuel-trim (LONGFT) is negative 12% or more, the MAF is in need of service.
The Fix: Remove the actual sensing part of the MAF from its housing and clean the filaments. To do this, unplug it and remove the tamper-proof-Torx screws. Carefully pull the sensor out. You will now be able to see the filaments. Even if they look shiny to the naked eye, there can still be a build-up on them. The safest way to clean them is Denatured-Alcohol and a swab. Never soak the sensor or spray anything directly on it. Wet the swab with the alcohol and gently rub the filaments on all exposed sides. After installing the MAF, disconnect the negative battery cable for 10 minutes minimum to clear the PCM's memory. Reconnect battery and test drive to re-learn PCM and to make sure the problems are gone.
i dont have a mass air flow sensor....i dont have nothing in the intake tube...my car is obd 1 if that helps...even its not the problem i like to clean whatever it is in there up just for performance and gas milage wise
Could it be that air filters are treated with some kind of very thin oil and if left setting for a long time it can be seen on a newspaper or the box it is stored in? If this is the case the air filter boxes should show this if they have been on the shelf for a long while. Just trying to solve this as I see this on my filters also.
I don't use Fram but OEM filters.
[ March 05, 2003, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: TR3-2001SE ]
I don't use Fram but OEM filters.
[ March 05, 2003, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: TR3-2001SE ]
Unfortunately, there is no smog police around here. If the engine turns, you can drive it.
18-wheelers make up almost half of the vehicles on the road where I live. They are poorly maintained. When the police crack down on trucks, more than 40% are not allowed to get back on the road due to safety violations or drivers driving over the number of hours allowed.
I guess this is why when we get a Canadian breeze, it's always refreshing. I was told by Canadians that when they get a southernly breeze it's not refreshing.
18-wheelers make up almost half of the vehicles on the road where I live. They are poorly maintained. When the police crack down on trucks, more than 40% are not allowed to get back on the road due to safety violations or drivers driving over the number of hours allowed.
I guess this is why when we get a Canadian breeze, it's always refreshing. I was told by Canadians that when they get a southernly breeze it's not refreshing.
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