Why did Ford go from 5W20 to 5W30?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: KMJ1992
Having seen firsthand the difference in top end wear between 5w20 and 5w30 modular V8s, i would never use 20w in one. By 200k, 5w20 motors have flat spots on the cams that you can see with the naked eye and feel with your finger. 30w motors don't. Nor do they come in for timing jobs near as often. The higest mileage 5w20 4.6 i service has 250k and feels it. The higest mileage 5w30 4.6 i service has 645k, no joke. And runs better than the 20w engine. Both examples have 5k ocis and almost all highway miles.


Post ONE pick where using a XW-20 caused "flat spots"...

Did each engine tell you personally what oil they used? the length of OCI? applications?

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Wasn't aware that Fusions ran the modular V-8s.

They must be a handful in the wet.


Naw, never. The 3.5 with a stick is quite enough...

 

[Fasttimez]

The engine "tighter tolerances" are a myth. The fact is quite the opposite, look at a 302 V8 from 1993, & you will see the main & rod bearing clearances are actually looser on the modular V8's......"But how can that be"......it's because thinner oils/fluids are nothing more than CAFE crutches. Look at the Coyote 5.0, it spec's to use 5W-20 for normal driving. However that same engine says to run 5W-50 if you're going to be using it at the track to race.....But again, how can that be....what about those so called "tighter tolerances".....if 5W-20 was just as good or better at protecting an engine, why run thicker oil ??? It's the exact same reason Ford, starting in 2015 spec's 75W-85 in the differentials in their trucks vs the old 75W-140.....trying to squeeze those MPG's out of the vehicle. Thicker oil = Better protection, but also = Less MPG. It's also the same reason they run the transmission fluid now to a "normal" operating temp of 205*-215*, with "normal" towing temps routinely hitting the 230's....get that fluid thinned to create less internal parasitic drag, again yielding tiny MPG gains. Now are you gonna ever see the potential "damage" to an engine using a 5W-20 vs a thicker oil in 100K+ miles, probably not.....are you gonna notice that .0002 MPG loss from using a 5W-30 vs 5W-20 oil, probably not. So use what makes you happy & lets you sleep well at night.

NOTE: This summary is for NA engines ONLY. A DI Forced induction engine will require you to run a thicker oil to compensate for fuel dilution & turbo function.

 

[demarpaint]

From what I've heard they lowered warranty claims by making the change. Obviously in 'some' applications 5W20 wasn't cutting it, or they never would have made the change.

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: Fasttimez
The engine "tighter tolerances" are a myth....


I was told that GM was going to 0/5W-20 in many vehicles for precisely that reason at the Buffalo (Tonawanda) GM engine plant a couple months back at the oil fill station (i.e. in the 2.5L). The turbocharged 2.0L LTG built there still takes 5W-30 (Dexos)...

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
From what I've heard they lowered warranty claims by making the change. Obviously in 'some' applications 5W20 wasn't cutting it, or they never would have made the change.


To get Ford (Mercury legacy) to lower their warranty claim threashold, you need to go into the firearms section here!

 

[spj]

In my company vehicle running a Ford 3.7 cyclone in severe service has Delvac 1 5w40. Under load it is smooooth but at start up idle it does tick some. My own 3.5 cyclone is babied on 0w20 and quiet all the way around.

 

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: KMJ1992
Having seen firsthand the difference in top end wear between 5w20 and 5w30 modular V8s, i would never use 20w in one. By 200k, 5w20 motors have flat spots on the cams that you can see with the naked eye and feel with your finger. 30w motors don't. Nor do they come in for timing jobs near as often. The higest mileage 5w20 4.6 i service has 250k and feels it. The higest mileage 5w30 4.6 i service has 645k, no joke. And runs better than the 20w engine. Both examples have 5k ocis and almost all highway miles.


That's odd. Hundreds of thousands of Ford engines are on the road dating back 15 years and aren't having that problem. Including mine. UOA don't show high metals with 20wt oils either.

Agreed. With the exception of one oil change, I've run 5W-20 in my Grand Marquis. It has over 140,000 miles on it and still runs very well. No difference in MPG either. I record all my MPG on long trips and have records back to when it was 2 years old.

This car has made several trips from Southern Ca. to Phoenix area often in summer time - where the deserts of California and Arizona have hit temps of 115 and above.

According to some here it sounds like when I get to 200,001 miles it will start running rough due to engine wear! LOL.

 

[KMJ1992]

The fact they still run doesnt mean it is whats best for them. Im not a liar. I just pulled the valve covers off a 5.4 3v yesterday that had 220k on CAFE water. You could feel a flat spot on every lobe. The motor may have a lot of life left, but it's definately down on power. I don't think i need to go into detail on how tiny differences in cam profile can affect a powerband. 200k is more than enough for most people, but some of us strive for better.

 

[KMJ1992]

Ford has recently (late 2015) changed the spec on v10 and 6.2 v8 engines from 20 to 30 in a special service bulletin. Reasons cited were excessive consumption and camshaft wear. The v10 is just a 5.4 with two more cylinders. Therefore one can easily deduce whatever helps one helps another. Also waiting to hear of a water weight motor with 645k that has never had the valvecovers off. Plenty of 4.6 cop cars and taxis with a million miles on 10/30 and 15/40.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: KMJ1992
The fact they still run doesnt mean it is whats best for them. Im not a liar. I just pulled the valve covers off a 5.4 3v yesterday that had 220k on CAFE water. You could feel a flat spot on every lobe. The motor may have a lot of life left, but it's definately down on power. I don't think i need to go into detail on how tiny differences in cam profile can affect a powerband. 200k is more than enough for most people, but some of us strive for better.


Without pics it didn't happen. Using terms like "CAFE water" shows your bias. Why is it UOAs don't back up your claims concerning high iron count. Is there more pressure on the cam with the 4.6 than my 2.3 and 2.5 Ford 4 cyl engines? the cams in my engines look great.

Now I had a 1996 Merc GM 4.6 and that engine that had 218K on it when sold. No sign of cam wear. Oil used then was M1 10-30. What does that prove? Nuttin, except 10-30 worked great.

 

[wemay]

20 or 30, the engine will last the same number of miles
20 or 30, you will get the same real world mpg.

 

[littleant]

From 5w20 back to 5w30. Maybe the reason was or is because of excessive warranty work. Example The ford 4.0 was one of the few engines that was not back spec from 5w-30 to 5w-20. Why because of the beautiful well engineered 3 timing chain engine. Ridiculous.

 

[1.8Tango]

Originally Posted By: E365
My 2015 Focus 1.0 is still spec'd for 5w-20, but I see for 2017 they switched spec to WSS-M2C948-B, the same spec that was in the European owners manuals all along. WSS-M2C945-A was the old spec.

Also for 2017 they appear to have added some cold weather guidance and approved WSS-M2C947-A (0w-20). That wasn't in the 2015 or 2016 manuals.

Looks like the Focus 2.0 also got the same 0w-20 added, plus WSS-M2C953-A1 0w-30 added, along with the new 948-B spec 5w-20 and the addition of 5w-30 (WSS-M2C913-C).


Been awhile but to update others that happen upon this thread, Ford DID spec WSS-M2C948-B (European basically) for 2017 BUT THEN reversed themselves and now spec 945 oil. Probably because nobody sells 948 in the US. Not even the dealer. The dealer will give you the base 5w20 semi-synth if you go there for an oil change.

Funny. I can't believe I've been a member of BITOG since 2003 and this is my first post

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: 1.8Tango
Funny. I can't believe I've been a member of BITOG since 2003 and this is my first post

Hi Tango !!