Who Knows About Aviation Paint ??

[billt460]

I can't seem to find a whole lot about the makeup of it, and how it adheres so well. For example, I find it amazing that a beautifully painted, high performance private jet can takeoff from Phoenix in July when the temperature is 115F+. And in less than 30 minutes it can be cruising at 51,000 ft. where the outside temperature is -70F.

How does the paint take that kind of thermal torture? Not to mention the wind blast moving over it. Talk about "wind chill". Or even the military flat grey paints that have to deal with supersonic flight, along with the extreme heating. You rarely, if ever see peeling paint on these aircraft. How long does the paint hold up on these airplanes?

I saw a show on the XB-70 Valkyrie that was painted white before it's Mach 3 test flight. When it landed half the paint was missing from it. They later developed a paint that would stay on. How much are these aviation paints and finishes a gallon? They've got to be expensive. Just look at what good house paint costs these days.

An old retired friend of mine who worked for Lockheed at the "Skunkworks" said when the SR-71 came out, they had a very high ranking Air Force General arrive to inspect it with Kelly Johnson. He didn't like the fact the U.S. Flag was not painted on the tail.

Kelly Johnson explained to him they didn't have a colored paint that would stand up to the extreme temperatures the aircraft encountered. The General told him to "find one". They finally did, but it cost a fortune for 3M to develop it.

 

[MRC01]

The answer will depend on how you define "aviation". It ranges from vintage taildraggers that fly slower than most cars drive, to megabuck military aircraft flying at several times the speed of sound.

I had my 1980 Cessna 172 repainted about 9 years ago. It's tied down outside and the paint is holding up about as well as a car would. It still looks OK but it's faded a bit with some minor cracks/peeling just starting in a couple of isolated spots. The temperature ranges and materials (aluminum, fiberglass, plastic) are the same as most cars, so I would suppose the paint they use is also similar.

 

[atikovi]

Isn't Imron paint that's used on planes the best you can get for cars?

 

[FowVay]

I'm certainly no expert on aircraft paint but I've watched a few thousand of them being painted over my lifetime. The planes are primed with a zinc chromate conversion coating prior to being sprayed with a polyester urethane paint. If the commercial aviation industry didn't have PR-1435 sealer and gray poly paint they'd have to shut the operation down.

Interesting trivia is that on average, the paint of a typical wide-body aircraft (B767 for example) can add as much as 600 lbs. to the total airframe weight once dried.

 

[wings&wheels]

You haven't lived a full aviation life until you have doped a vintage aircraft....brain cells I will never recover

I believe Imron and JetGlo remain the standard for bizjets and maybe airlines but I've been away from bizjets for a while, tough stuff and toxic.....think you need a positive pressure breather to apply but I could be wrong. Military? Who knows what ITAR controlled, heat and radar signature impacting coating they use.....

 

[Trav]

+1 Imron is one I know of, I only sprayed it once in my life and didn't like it, the stuff is so toxic the place that I get my paint from wont even mix it anymore.
Yes, it needs a positive pressure hood/mask and a full suit.

 

[JimPghPA]

Many many years ago there was a news clip about someone painting an aircraft at Allegheny County Airport and he did not use a mask. The inside of his lungs ended up with soooooooooo much paint that he had to go to a hospital. As the paint dried his ability to get oxygen into his system kept getting worse, and he died.

I do not know what brand of paint he used, or what was painted, but that is a big lesson to remember about working around areas where paint is in the air.

Another one, when I was in a remote control model airplane club, one day one member told about how he ruined a new model airplane engine by doing the normal break in run near where he was also painting his truck. Enough overspray got sucked into it to build up on the cylinder wall and destroyed it and the piston.

 

[nthach]

I knew someone whose dad was a mechanic at Alaska Airlines. He had some PPG aviation paint on a workbench. It’s a 2K polyurethane but unlike automotive 2K single-stage or basecoat, the hardener was also packaged in a paint can. When I toured Boeing in Everett, I talked to a painter. He said Boeing almost always uses PPG paints. PPG is huge in avation, but AkzoNobel is also a major player.

Many many years ago there was a news clip about someone painting an aircraft at Allegheny County Airport and he did not use a mask. The inside of his lungs ended up with soooooooooo much paint that he had to go to a hospital. As the paint dried his ability to get oxygen into his system kept getting worse, and he died.

Isocyanates, the chemical that allows urethane paints and foams to crosslink(urethanes have a polyol chain, which the isocyanates will crosslink and polymerize) are no joke. Especially if you have asthma or other respiratory conditions. OSHA requires painters to wear fresh-air hoods when using the stuff. There’s people who paint cars in garages with nothing more than a P100/R95 respirator - but the iso part will load the carbon filters quickly.

 

[MRC01]

IIRC, American Airlines used to brag in their in-flight magazine about how much fuel their polished aluminum airplanes saved by being lighter than painted airplanes.

 

[Number_35]

I'm certainly no expert on aircraft paint but I've watched a few thousand of them being painted over my lifetime. The planes are primed with a zinc chromate conversion coating prior to being sprayed with a polyester urethane paint. If the commercial aviation industry didn't have PR-1435 sealer and gray poly paint they'd have to shut the operation down.

Interesting trivia is that on average, the paint of a typical wide-body aircraft (B767 for example) can add as much as 600 lbs. to the total airframe weight once dried.

View attachment 110819View attachment 110821

During the last year or so of WW2, the US left its big bombers in the ETO in natural metal finish - at that point, the fighters could escort the bombers all the way to the target, so the camoflaging benefit of the paint was not as necessary, and the reduction in weight was helpful.

 

[CKN]

IIRC, American Airlines used to brag in their in-flight magazine about how much fuel their polished aluminum airplanes saved by being lighter than painted airplanes.

I would think 600 pounds ( of paint) is minuscule for extra fuel used. But if you multiple that over miles flown and the number of air craft I guess it adds up.

 

[wpod]

I would think 600 pounds ( of paint) is minuscule for extra fuel used. But if you multiple that over miles flown and the number of air craft I guess it adds up.

What does it cost to polish the Aluminum?

 

[wings&wheels]

Related question; anyone know what the brown semi-transparent varnish appearing coating you see on the interior surfaces of some aircraft, usually appears that is sprayed over the (chromate?) painted interior panels with a heavy coating on seams and rivet lines? Obviously, some kind of anti corrosion sealer, but it is tough to remove...someone gave me some scrap panels and fittings for a project.

Also, many years ago, maybe 15 or so, a friend who was an F15 structures tech gave me a few corrosion treatment pens for us on our airplane; one time use touch up paint dispensers similar to the DupliColor pens. They were great for non-visible areas, I remember the ingredients including strontium chromate.

 

[Cujet]

Related question; anyone know what the brown semi-transparent varnish appearing coating you see on the interior surfaces of some aircraft, usually appears that is sprayed over the (chromate?) painted interior panels with a heavy coating on seams and rivet lines? Obviously, some kind of anti corrosion sealer, but it is tough to remove...

One common brownish/reddish CIC (corrosion inhibiting coating) is Ardrox brand, AV-30.

ARDROX® AV 30 Brown Penetrating Water Displacing Corrosion Inhibiting Compound - Liter Can

ARDROX® AV 30 Brown Penetrating Water Displacing Corrosion Inhibiting Compound - Liter Can - Visit and view our entire SkyGeek, Shop Supplies, Corrosion Inhibitor, Chemetall Ardrox® AV 30 Corrosion Inhibiting Compound, section at SkyGeek!

skygeek.com

 

[Cujet]

Our new Gulfstream G600 is painted with PRC-Desoto 8800, in Chevron White (off white). It is good stuff and every bit as tough as the previous generation of paints. (Imron, Jet Glo, Acry Glo etc)

The classic corporate jet paint job has always been Jet Glo, Matterhorn White.

Just as an FYI, the 8800 2 part corrosion inhibiting epoxy primer is flat out incredible. It will withstand the rigors of the inside of a racing SeaDoo jet drive. It's that tough.

 

[billt460]

God that airplane is beautifully finished!

 

[nthach]

On an related note - how come Airbus is having issues with the paint on the A350XWB(and seems to be isolated to Qatar Airways) but Boeing isn’t having issues with the 787, though both planes are more similar than different?

 

[billt460]

On an related note - how come Airbus is having issues with the paint on the A350XWB(and seems to be isolated to Qatar Airways) but Boeing isn’t having issues with the 787, though both planes are more similar than different?

This is the first I've heard of it. What is the problem?

 

[nthach]

This is the first I've heard of it. What is the problem?

The Qatar Airbus A350 Paint Conflict: A Timeline Of Events

What started with one plane has spiraled into a full-blown conflict between Airbus and Qatar Airways

simpleflying.com

Paint is peeling off the plane and exposing the lightning dissipation system. Qatar Airways says it can spark a fuel tank fire. However, DL/SQ/LH/CX aren’t reporting paint issues on their A350s.

And looks like Airbus 86ed Qatar’s remaining orders. Looks like Boeing’s gonna court them hard for 787-10s.

 

[bdcardinal]

This is the first I've heard of it. What is the problem?

Exclusive: Airbus axes remaining A350 jet deal with Qatar Airways - sources

Airbus has revoked its entire outstanding order from Qatar Airways for A350 jets, severing all new jetliner business with the Gulf carrier in a dramatic new twist to a dispute clouding World Cup preparations, two industry sources said.

www.reuters.com

I think there might be some lack of maintenance going on somewhere. Or else those jets are just getting constantly sandblasted.