Who here has tried both Blizzak WS90 *and* performance or "continental European" winter tires?

[d00df00d]

Been asking around in various forums and reading tire tests. So far, I'm getting the impression that Blizzak WS90 is unique in its class – not necessarily "better," but different – and wanted to check that with people who've had experience with it.

Again, this is the impression I'm getting so far – not my own experience – and I'm posting here to see if better-informed people agree.

TireRack's test of the WS90 is the only objective test I've seen (can't see the CR results in detail). But the results line up with subjective reviews I've read: the WS90 seems to outperform its peers in almost every objective measure of traction/grip. Weirdly, it seems to do better on all surfaces at the same time, avoiding the usual tradeoffs between snow/ice and wet/dry.

I've also had multiple people bring up these tires even when they seem to understand that my usage points more toward a "continental European" or performance winter type tire.

It's almost like the WS90 is a have-it-all winter tire: it does "Nordic" tire things on snow/ice, but it's almost like a "continental European" tire on wet/dry.

Caveats:

- At ~half tread depth, the tread compound changes and winter performance drops sharply
- Mediocre handling behavior vs. best-in-class
- Slight lack of refinement vs. best-in-class
- Short-ish overall tread life
- Even faster wear in warm conditions than other winter tires

Is that about right? What do you all think?

 

[Jetronic]

Never tried nordic tyres, but all winter tyres I did try were bad when warm or in the wet. The "best" in those conditions was Michelin CC but even those (I had the 1st version) had deficiencies in the wet just above freezing.

 

[Rand]

1.you replace winter tires at half depth anyway.
2. not vs other similar tires. Performance winter is a different category.
3. You need to list tires you are comparing it to. as a generalization. no.
4. improved vs previous generations.. last michelin long... no.
5. Are you going to run them during warm weather? I put mine on in december. (maybe a week or 2 earlier if blizzard coming)

What vehicle is this going on.

The viking contact 8's are a top choice in the same class as the ws-90.

if this is for bmw and you want to drive it like a bmw.. these arent the right tires for you.

maybe consider
Vredestein wintrac pro+
or even. nokian WRG5

 

[d00df00d]

1.you replace winter tires at half depth anyway.

Fair enough!

Any comment on the upsides I described?

 

[camrydriver111]

Never tried nordic tyres, but all winter tyres I did try were bad when warm or in the wet. The "best" in those conditions was Michelin CC but even those (I had the 1st version) had deficiencies in the wet just above freezing.

Nordic tire is just a European term for what we call Winter tire in North America.

 

[leeharvey418]

I think Tire Rack did a real disservice by omitting the WS90 from warm-weather testing, or by not testing "winter" performance on anything other than snow or ice. I've lived in areas that experience pretty bad winter weather, but most of my driving between October and April has still been on wet or dry pavement. Yes, you give up now and ice traction by running an all-season or winter performance tire versus a 'Nordic' tire, but on the rare occasion that a tire test actually compares apples to apples, they generally demonstrate that you give up more wet and dry traction with the tire that's better on snow and ice.

 

[d00df00d]

I think Tire Rack did a real disservice by omitting the WS90 from warm-weather testing, or by not testing "winter" performance on anything other than snow or ice. I've lived in areas that experience pretty bad winter weather, but most of my driving between October and April has still been on wet or dry pavement. Yes, you give up now and ice traction by running an all-season or winter performance tire versus a 'Nordic' tire, but on the rare occasion that a tire test actually compares apples to apples, they generally demonstrate that you give up more wet and dry traction with the tire that's better on snow and ice.

This is why I love the performance winter tire category so much for my usage. It's still far better than all-season tires on snow/ice – not quite at the level of a regular winter tire, but plenty for most winters – without the horrible wet/dry performance.

I've tried Bridgestone Blizzak LM-60 and Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4 and PA5 on our M3, and I liked them all. They weren't exactly superstars on wet/dry, but they were good enough that I didn't hate my life, and they worked well on snow. The PA5 in particular was shockingly good to drive on in all conditions. OTOH, Michelin X-Ice SNOW was spectacular on snow, okay on wet, and rage-inducingly bad on dry. Terrible compromise for my usage given that real winter conditions around here are rare and getting rarer every year.

That's why I'm so curious about Blizzak WS90. It seems to be in the same league as X-Ice SNOW on snow/ice, but with noticeably less compromise on wet/dry. Again, someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that.

 

[leeharvey418]

Oh! Then I looked at the Tire Rack test that you linked. I was only looking at their most recent test, where they compared all seasons with winter tires.

Maybe I'm just jaded, but the dry and wet results for the WS90 don't seem all that impressive. Yes, it's good in real winter conditions, but it's not outstanding among its peers in dry and wet conditions. I'd bet that the great reviews come from it having been the 'shiny new thing' in winter tires at the right time.

 

[d00df00d]

Oh! Then I looked at the Tire Rack test that you linked. I was only looking at their most recent test, where they compared all seasons with winter tires.

Maybe I'm just jaded, but the dry and wet results for the WS90 don't seem all that impressive. Yes, it's good in real winter conditions, but it's not outstanding among its peers in dry and wet conditions. I'd bet that the great reviews come from it having been the 'shiny new thing' in winter tires at the right time.

You know, I realize now I hadn't looked too closely at the numbers. Thanks for calling attention to that.

The stopping distance advantages are the impressive ones IMO. Dry, shortest by 5.6 ft. Wet, shortest by 14.5 ft. But the rest of the differences are splitting hairs.

Given that, I agree with you – it doesn't seem to differ from its peers nearly so much as I had thought. Definitely not a category-buster. And, given its relative tradeoffs, not magic either. Just another take on the Nordic/non-performance winter tire formula, albeit one well worth considering: shorter useful tread life in exchange for some traction advantages.

I appreciate the correction!

 

[Rand]

Fair enough!

Any comment on the upsides I described?

@edyvw Might have some

I have not personally driven on the ws-90.. just the ws-50, ws-60, ws-70, ws-80, dm-v2(2 sets) (for bridgestone)

all the tires you listed were performance winters. The top tier "nordic" winter tires will be Standard touring tire level of performance at their best in the dry/wet..
if not worse (think regular michelin defender(car model) tire performance level.

the 2 I listed are more grand touring and would be reasonably sporty although not upto the performance of a conti dws let alone more extreme performance tires.

How much do you need crazy snow and ice traction? If you need it.. the ws-90 performs.
and better than their previous models.
I like to buy for the worst conditions.
but you have to contrast that with not liking the handling etc for the rest of the winter.. when its dry, raining, or 55f.

If you want to try "real" winter tires, I love the Viking contact 7's on the elantra.. and the 8's are improved.. those or the ws-90 is where I would go.

Otherwise performance winter or all-weather might give you a better match for your "wants".

PS. I Edited for clarity.

 

[d00df00d]

I made a thread about my current winter tire search here. Thought of posting this question in that thread, but this felt like it warranted its own thread.

 

[edyvw]

Oh! Then I looked at the Tire Rack test that you linked. I was only looking at their most recent test, where they compared all seasons with winter tires.

Maybe I'm just jaded, but the dry and wet results for the WS90 don't seem all that impressive. Yes, it's good in real winter conditions, but it's not outstanding among its peers in dry and wet conditions. I'd bet that the great reviews come from it having been the 'shiny new thing' in winter tires at the right time.

They don’t because other tires are A/S and all-weather.
Better ice traction requires compound that doesn’t do well in wet.
That being said, among winter tires, WS90 has very, VERY good wet traction. I had WS90, DM-V2, Michelin Latitude X-Ice2, Continental VC7, Bridgestone LM-60, WS70, some of those twice (DM-V2, VC7, WS90), Nokian R2, in the last 12 years. I would say WS90 are the best so far among those in wet. Bit better than VC7, which I would say is the best among named tires when it comes to overall performance.

 

[DirtyGary]

Oh! Then I looked at the Tire Rack test that you linked. I was only looking at their most recent test, where they compared all seasons with winter tires.

Maybe I'm just jaded, but the dry and wet results for the WS90 don't seem all that impressive. Yes, it's good in real winter conditions, but it's not outstanding among its peers in dry and wet conditions. I'd bet that the great reviews come from it having been the 'shiny new thing' in winter tires at the right time.

I drove WS90s in the past 3 winters on my BRZ.

Unless you're in legit winter - temps below freezing, snow, ice - they are not good. In Chicago we've had some pretty mild winters 2 of the last 3 years. Temps frequently in the 30s and rain instead of snow. The WS90s were a liability in those conditions. Braking distances were very noticeably long and the car was laughably easy to drift (too easy to initiate but VERY controllable while drifting).

However, on the few days when winter did do it's thing... temps in the teens, snow on the roads mixed with black ice... They're so good that it reminds you why you bother with them in the first place.


To put it another way- I recently got another car to commute in so the BRZ won't have to be used daily in the winter anymore. I am strongly considering some UHP all seasons (psas4 or dws06+) for it just so when the winter IS mild, I can take it out and enjoy it safely because UHP all seasons vastly out perform WS90s in mild winter (read: above freezing temps, no snow).

 

[PWMDMD]

I put WS90s on the Kia Soul in the winter since it's not AWD and they have been excellent. Not the same as the Tundra with 4WD but they are an excellent all around winter tire.

 

[edyvw]

Oh! Then I looked at the Tire Rack test that you linked. I was only looking at their most recent test, where they compared all seasons with winter tires.

Maybe I'm just jaded, but the dry and wet results for the WS90 don't seem all that impressive. Yes, it's good in real winter conditions, but it's not outstanding among its peers in dry and wet conditions. I'd bet that the great reviews come from it having been the 'shiny new thing' in winter tires at the right time.

Can you please elaborate on how those tires are peer? I saw you are constantly making this statement.
So, how are all-season tires and nordic winter tire peer tires? How are the Continental DWS06+ that I have for summer, and Blizzak WS90 that I have for a winter, a peer tires?
I am all ears.

 

[edyvw]

Been asking around in various forums and reading tire tests. So far, I'm getting the impression that Blizzak WS90 is unique in its class – not necessarily "better," but different – and wanted to check that with people who've had experience with it.

Again, this is the impression I'm getting so far – not my own experience – and I'm posting here to see if better-informed people agree.

TireRack's test of the WS90 is the only objective test I've seen (can't see the CR results in detail). But the results line up with subjective reviews I've read: the WS90 seems to outperform its peers in almost every objective measure of traction/grip. Weirdly, it seems to do better on all surfaces at the same time, avoiding the usual tradeoffs between snow/ice and wet/dry.

I've also had multiple people bring up these tires even when they seem to understand that my usage points more toward a "continental European" or performance winter type tire.

It's almost like the WS90 is a have-it-all winter tire: it does "Nordic" tire things on snow/ice, but it's almost like a "continental European" tire on wet/dry.

Caveats:

- At ~half tread depth, the tread compound changes and winter performance drops sharply
- Mediocre handling behavior vs. best-in-class
- Slight lack of refinement vs. best-in-class
- Short-ish overall tread life
- Even faster wear in warm conditions than other winter tires

Is that about right? What do you all think?

You are really overthinking this.
Get Michelin X-ICE Snow. That tire is probably the best bet for well-rounded performance.

 

[leeharvey418]

Can you please elaborate on how those tires are peer?

Look at the test the d00df00d linked in the first post in this thread. Tire Rack tested the WS90 against three other winter tires. The WS90 finished first in a few categories, but it was far from outstanding in the test, and it finished dead second to last in the wet handling loop test overall wet handling.

Edit: I looked at the wrong graph.

 

[d00df00d]

You are really overthinking this.
Get Michelin X-ICE Snow. That tire is probably the best bet for well-rounded performance.

Overthinking's my thing!

But nah, I was done. This thread was in parallel with the other one in which I posted my decision.

FWIW, I've had X-Ice SNOW on the M3. Mentioned my impressions in brief here (can flesh them out if it'd be helpful). Like the WS90, it definitely has its merits, but it didn't strike me as a category buster at all. If I had to guess what Nordic-type studless winter tire on the US market was the best for well-rounded performance, my money would be on Conti VC8. But I haven't driven nearly so many tires in this category as you have, so IDK.

Look at the test the d00df00d linked in the first post in this thread. Tire Rack tested the WS90 against three other winter tires. The WS90 finished first in a few categories, but it was far from outstanding in the test, and it finished dead second to last in the wet handling loop test overall wet handling.

To be fair, AFAICT a lot of that poor "overall" rating was due to a subpar showing on the subjective ratings. When it came to focused measurements of traction and grip, the WS90 was at the top of the pack.

 

[edyvw]

Overthinking's my thing!

But nah, I was done. This thread was in parallel with the other one in which I posted my decision.

FWIW, I've had X-Ice SNOW on the M3. Mentioned my impressions in brief here (can flesh them out if it'd be helpful). Like the WS90, it definitely has its merits, but it didn't strike me as a category buster at all. If I had to guess what Nordic-type studless winter tire on the US market was the best for well-rounded performance, my money would be on Conti VC8. But I haven't driven nearly so many tires in this category as you have, so IDK.


To be fair, AFAICT a lot of that poor "overall" rating was due to a subpar showing on the subjective ratings. When it came to focused measurements of traction and grip, the WS90 was at the top of the pack.

I mean, WS90, VC8 and X-Ice will all do good. X-Ice will probably last longest.
Idk, I try different tires from top tier brands if prices are competitive between them. If not, Blizzak WS90 is usually my go to for cars as Costco carries them and they are usually fresh. I went VC7 from Discount Tire because it is dramatically better tire than DM-V2 and X-Ice was bit more expensive.

 

[Japanese]

It's almost like the WS90 is a have-it-all winter tire

I drive on WS90 for the last 6-7 years. They are great in the snow. They might be a bit slippery on wet, if you push them. I don't know how they do on ice because they are studless.
They are best-in-class winter tires. I recommend them. In the winter I pass trucks and SUVs like they are stopped. With them you feel much confident accelerating, cornering, and slowing down too.