Which oils are 'thick or thin' ?

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Thatwouldbegreat

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Has anyone recently compiled a reference chart which shows which XW-X oils are thick or thin?

For instance I know that GC 0W-30 is thick... nearly a 40WT.

I know that Redline 5W-20 has a very high HTHS spec compared to other 5W-20 oils.

Before I lost confidence in Mobil 1's integrity, it was simple: Hondas would get Mobil 1 0W-20, GM's would get Mobil 1 5w30 or 5w30 EP, Turbo Diesels would get Delvac 1.

Now I can see that I'm more likely to have a diverse stash of oil based on sale price.

I have a new stash of $0.99 / qt Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 and 10W-30, I started thinking: ' is there a concise chart that someone has created' ?

Then I could quickly compare oils without looking up PDS or older stickies?

Now that M1 may have spoiled my old habit of picking an oil based on Group IV/ V basestock...I'm starting to think in terms of either using true synthetics like 'Redline/ GC/ Amsoil' or using name brand Group III synthetics based on price/additive pack/viscosity and forum member input.

I know some people will weigh in with 'run a UOA' advice.

But I would like to refer to a chart to determine if a particular XW-20, XW-30, XW-40 is thinner than, thicker than, or the same as other oils with the same XW-20, 30, 40 rating and make that part of the selection process.


Does something like this exist?
 
There is a VOA database that gives the viscosity's of different engine oils in the VOA section. The issue is that many of the formulations have changed (Havoline for example is now a very thin conventional)since the data base was created.

Personally I know that if an engine oil is of a certain J300 viscosity and has "energy conserving" markings it will be thinner than the same labeled viscosity without the energy conserving label. Another key is ACEA ratings. A1 and A5 are lower viscosity fluids compared to A3.
Your best option is to pull up the PDS on the oil you are interested in. The problem with creating a comparison chart or data base is as soon as it is completed the real world information will change.
 
I just took the easy way out after the M-1 disappointment...went and bought a huge stash of pennzoil platinum...before they change that again...
 
So here's some crude data [ from thin to thick @100C descending]:

Note that Redline and Amsoil have some very good HTHS number.

GC I don't have as much info...so these are from memory from other threads.

Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 @40C cSt 59.7 @100C 10.5 HTHS 3.0

Amsoil ASL 5w30 @40C cSt 55.8 @100C 10.6 HTHS 3.09

Redline 5w30 @40C cSt 62.0 @100C 10.6 HTHS 3.8

Mobil 1 5w30 EP @40C cSt 61.0 @100C 11.0 HTHS 3.1

Amsoil Series 2000 0W-30 @40C cSt 56.9 @100C 11.2 HTHS 3.4

Amsoil Series 3000 @40C cSt 64.6 @100C 11.5 HTHS 3.5

Mobil 1 5w30 @40C cSt 64.8 @100C 11.7 HTHS 3.09

Castrol GC 0W-30 @40C cSt ? @100C 12? HTHS >3.6?

Pennzoil Platinum may be old data as Pennzoil and Quaker State PDS sites are down. I couldn't find Valvoline PDS.


http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_5w30.asp

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_Extended_Performance.asp

http://www.pennzoilplatinum.com/pdf/platinum_ds.pdf

http://www.redlineoil.com/pdf/4.pdf

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/hdd.aspx

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/asl.aspx

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/tso.aspx

http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=UBB51&Number=711447
 
Quote:

So here's some crude data...

Click to expand...


Very punny.
ooo.gif
 
TWBG,

By definition, any xw-30 that meets the ILSAC,GF-4 spec is going to be an "thin" 30wt. This is necessary in order to meet the energy conserving requirements of this spec. Your best bet at "thick" 30wt's are the API/SL oils. For Amsoil, this includes their API/SL rated, 10w-30, Four Stoke Marine oil (HT/HS of 3.65 Cp), as well as their Series 3000, 5w30. All the rest of their xw-30 formulations are somewhat thinner, including their 10w-30/30wt, "ACD" gas/diesel oil. I'd estimate the HT/HS of that oil to be approx 3.3 Cp @ 150C.

I'd define all the Redline, xw-30 formulations and their xw-20 as "thick" oils for their respective grades, in terms of HT/HS viscosity.

The European 5w-40's would also fall into your definition of thicker oils. These typically have HT/HS viscosities in the 3.5-3.8 Cp range @ 150c. Other thick xw-30's would be those that meet the ACEA A3/B4 specifications, like the German Castrol.

TD
 
Thanks! That's a good rule of thumb.

I'll post some more data in the next thread, but I'm having some problems finding HTHS and cold cranking specs for all oils.

I did want to comment on the Mobil 1 5w30; it seems to be one of the 'thicker' synthetic 5w30 oils , at least for over the counter [ possibly Group III] oils.

I'm not so sure that thick or thin is better... I was thinking that a quick reference chart might just be helpful in choosing oils based on an individual engine and driving pattern.

I think the Redline/ Amsoil/ GC oils still look like good choices for me, since I do tend to rev an engine freely and drive hard in a demanding mountainous environment.

I have used Redline and GC with great results, especially Redline.

But I just added a bunch of Pennzoil Platinum at $0.99/ qt. to the stash. Too good a deal to pass up.

This oil seems to have a pretty good rep for itself as an EOP, now Group III, synthetic....and it appears that it is a 'thin' oil.

Maybe this means that it could give slightly better MPG, and work well in some of my cars .... as long as they are driven normally.


Quote:

TWBG,

By definition, any xw-30 that meets the ILSAC,GF-4 spec is going to be an "thin" 30wt. This is necessary in order to meet the energy conserving requirements of this spec. Your best bet at "thick" 30wt's are the API/SL oils. For Amsoil, this includes their API/SL rated, 10w-30, Four Stoke Marine oil (HT/HS of 3.65 Cp), as well as their Series 3000, 5w30. All the rest of their xw-30 formulations are somewhat thinner, including their 10w-30/30wt, "ACD" gas/diesel oil. I'd estimate the HT/HS of that oil to be approx 3.3 Cp @ 150C.

I'd define all the Redline, xw-30 formulations and their xw-20 as "thick" oils for their respective grades, in terms of HT/HS viscosity.

The European 5w-40's would also fall into your definition of thicker oils. These typically have HT/HS viscosities in the 3.5-3.8 Cp range @ 150c. Other thick xw-30's would be those that meet the ACEA A3/B4 specifications, like the German Castrol.

TD

Click to expand...
 
Castrol Syntec 5w30 @40C cSt ? @100C 9.7 HTHS ?

Havoline Deposit Shield 5w30 @40C cSt 59.4 @100C 9.7 HTHS ?

Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 @40C cSt 59.7 @100C 10.5 HTHS 3.0

Quaker Q Advanced Engine @40C cSt 58.5 @100C 10.53 HTHS 3.0
Amsoil ASL 5w30 @40C cSt 55.8 @100C 10.6 HTHS 3.09

Redline 5w30 @40C cSt 62.0 @100C 10.6 HTHS 3.8

Quaker Q High RPM 5w30 @40C cSt 68.2 @100C 10.6 HTHS 3.1

Valvoline Maxlife 5w30 @40C cSt 62.31 @100C 10.61 HTHS ?

Castrol GTX @40C cSt 62.1 @100C 10.8 HTHS ?

Mobil 1 5w30 EP @40C cSt 61.0 @100C 11.0 HTHS 3.1

Amsoil Series 2000 0W-30 @40C cSt 56.9 @100C 11.2 HTHS 3.4

Amsoil Series 3000 @40C cSt 64.6 @100C 11.5 HTHS 3.5

Mobil 1 5w30 @40C cSt 64.8 @100C 11.7 HTHS 3.09

Castrol GC 0W-30 @40C cSt ? @100C 12? HTHS >3.6?

Havoline High Mileage 5w30 @40C cSt 74.8 @100C 12 HTHS ?

Castrol GTX HM 5w30 @40C cSt ? @100C 12 HTHS ?

http://www.qpower.com/doc/PDS_AdvEngine.pdf

http://www.qpower.com/doc/PDS_HighRPM.pdf

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/p,q/pds_syntec_usa.pdf

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/p,q/psd_gtx_usa.pdf
 
Maybe some else would like to post similar data for XW-20 and XW-40 oils? Or fill in the XW-30 data?

Then we'd have a quick reference which oils are near the upper and lower limits for their viscosity rating. Some of the 5w30 oils listed above are getting close to 5W-20 or 5W-40 territory.

I noticed that some of the 'high mileage' oils are thicker....maybe that helps reduce oil consumption?
 
Valvoline Synpower 5W-20 40cSt 46.96 100cSt 8.65 HTHS ?

Valvoline Synpower 5w30 40cSt 61.72 100cSt 10.9 HTHS ?

TropArctic Synthetic 5w30 40cSt 60.00 100cSt 10.5 HTHS 3.0


Exxon Superflo 5W-20 cSt40°C 47.0 cSt100°C 8.3 HTHS ?

Exxon Superflo 5w30 cSt40°C 62.0 cSt100°C 10.5 HTHS ?

Motorcraft 5W-20 cSt 40ºC 49 cSt100ºC 8.8 HT/HS 2.65


Motorcraft 5w30 cSt 40ºC 66 cSt100ºC 11.1 HT/HS 3.2
 
The Amsoil ASL has a HT/HS of 3.2 Cp @ 150C, as does their 10w-30. This oil has recently been blended using a slightly thinner basestock blend and now has a VI of 185 and a CCS viscosity of 5000 Cp @ -30C/-22F.

I have not seen a new CCS viscosity for the Series 2000, 0w-30, however it is also blended thinner than in the past. (vis @ 100C of 10.4 Cst, VI of 177 and HT/HS of 3.3 Cp). I'd expect it's CCS is now significantly thinner than 5520 Cp @ -35C/-31F. The lower VI would indicate they are using less polymeric thickener than in the past with this formulation.

I understand that Amsoil is currently field testing a PAO/Ester based, SAE 0w-20 synthetic, ie a 25k/1 year product. However I have no idea of when it will be released....

TD
 
Any GF-4 30wt oil is going to be on the thin side so use that as a general rule.

If you plan on extended drains, use Amsoil. I think it's the best right now. PP is a great retail PCMO for the money.
 
Buster,

Royal Dutch Shell is basically giving away their PP and their Rotella T, 5w-40, synthetic HDEO in order to grab market share from ExxonMobil. It's how the big boys do "Bid-ness" down in West By G-- Texas...;). It is very obvious to me what's going on here.

Both these oils are a screaming good deal right now - that is until RDS achieves their goal of global domination.
smile.gif


TD
 
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