edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Euro versions have traces of sodium in it. Mainly it is zinc, moly and calcium.
What's the reason Valvoline uses sodium?
- Thread starter jdavis
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted By: ShotGun429
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Just seeing the word "sodium" makes me freak out because I work in semiconductors.
I can still vividly remember a process engineer at my first company giving a talk about fab operations and looking like he was having a panic attack when he started talking about sodium..."Sodium ions propagate through the silicon lattice AT NEARLY THE SPEED OF LIGHT!!!"
If sodium gets in your wafers, you don't have a semiconductor anymore...just a conductor.
The guy brought down the house when he talked about a major crisis that occurred when the company was new...yields for all products suddenly dropped to zero and analysis indicated the wafers were full of sodium.
Turned out that one of the fab workers was using a diffusion furnace to heat his hot dogs at lunch time...
Great story!!
Yes it was!
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
Just seeing the word "sodium" makes me freak out because I work in semiconductors.
I can still vividly remember a process engineer at my first company giving a talk about fab operations and looking like he was having a panic attack when he started talking about sodium..."Sodium ions propagate through the silicon lattice AT NEARLY THE SPEED OF LIGHT!!!"
If sodium gets in your wafers, you don't have a semiconductor anymore...just a conductor.
The guy brought down the house when he talked about a major crisis that occurred when the company was new...yields for all products suddenly dropped to zero and analysis indicated the wafers were full of sodium.
Turned out that one of the fab workers was using a diffusion furnace to heat his hot dogs at lunch time...
Great story!!
Yes it was!
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Royal Purple's line of API-spec oils have an additive package nearly identical to Valvoline's. About 440 ppm of Sodium. Only Valvoline is cheaper than RP, so anytime someone asks about RP street oils, we tell them to buy Valvoline. If you look at the oil analysis results on the PQIA website, you'll see that some other oils have similar amounts of Sodium as Valvoline.
There aren't many oil additive companies.
Royal Purple's line of API-spec oils have an additive package nearly identical to Valvoline's. About 440 ppm of Sodium. Only Valvoline is cheaper than RP, so anytime someone asks about RP street oils, we tell them to buy Valvoline. If you look at the oil analysis results on the PQIA website, you'll see that some other oils have similar amounts of Sodium as Valvoline.
There aren't many oil additive companies.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Euro versions have traces of sodium in it. Mainly it is zinc, moly and calcium.
Interesting, Joe said something similar, about Na probably not being used in Euro grades.
So I suspect my Aussie SynPower 0W-40 with Euro OEM specs has very little Na in it.
I've used a lot of DuraBlend 10W-40 A3/B4 do you think that will also be low on sodium? Not that it matters, it was a fine oil that served me well, I would happily use it again.
Euro versions have traces of sodium in it. Mainly it is zinc, moly and calcium.
Interesting, Joe said something similar, about Na probably not being used in Euro grades.
So I suspect my Aussie SynPower 0W-40 with Euro OEM specs has very little Na in it.
I've used a lot of DuraBlend 10W-40 A3/B4 do you think that will also be low on sodium? Not that it matters, it was a fine oil that served me well, I would happily use it again.
I found a couple of patents that talk about 400 TBN Sodium 'Oxidate' and I'm wondering if this is our mystery compound???
If you look up 'Oxidate' in Wikipedia, it's not there because it's not a proper chemical name. Rather what seems to be happening is that you take base oil, get it really hot and blow air or oxygen through it. The acidic oxidation products that are formed are neutralised in situ with Sodium Hydroxide to give you Sodium Petroleum 'Oxidate' which can be overbased. It's a sort of detergent albeit a very strange one. God only knows what it does! I suspect it would be very cheap to produce which may explain why it's used to supplement normal Calcium Sulphonate.
If you look up 'Oxidate' in Wikipedia, it's not there because it's not a proper chemical name. Rather what seems to be happening is that you take base oil, get it really hot and blow air or oxygen through it. The acidic oxidation products that are formed are neutralised in situ with Sodium Hydroxide to give you Sodium Petroleum 'Oxidate' which can be overbased. It's a sort of detergent albeit a very strange one. God only knows what it does! I suspect it would be very cheap to produce which may explain why it's used to supplement normal Calcium Sulphonate.
Oxidate, spell check does not approve, but if a word, would be a verb and not a noun.
Used as a noun, the rust on my car is iron oxidate.
edit; a chemical that would oxidase, or in past tense oxidate.
Used as a noun, the rust on my car is iron oxidate.
edit; a chemical that would oxidase, or in past tense oxidate.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Rather what seems to be happening is that you take base oil, get it really hot and blow air or oxygen through it. The acidic oxidation products that are formed are neutralised in situ with Sodium Hydroxide to give you Sodium Petroleum 'Oxidate' which can be overbased. It's a sort of detergent albeit a very strange one. God only knows what it does! I suspect it would be very cheap to produce which may explain why it's used to supplement normal Calcium Sulphonate.
Wow that's very interesting, more of a process on the base oil, than a simple add pack.
Tom & PQIA just published a few more VOA's and I saw another oil (ProLine SAE 30) with about 450 ppm Na. There are quite a few out there.
Rather what seems to be happening is that you take base oil, get it really hot and blow air or oxygen through it. The acidic oxidation products that are formed are neutralised in situ with Sodium Hydroxide to give you Sodium Petroleum 'Oxidate' which can be overbased. It's a sort of detergent albeit a very strange one. God only knows what it does! I suspect it would be very cheap to produce which may explain why it's used to supplement normal Calcium Sulphonate.
Wow that's very interesting, more of a process on the base oil, than a simple add pack.
Tom & PQIA just published a few more VOA's and I saw another oil (ProLine SAE 30) with about 450 ppm Na. There are quite a few out there.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Rather what seems to be happening is that you take base oil, get it really hot and blow air or oxygen through it. The acidic oxidation products that are formed are neutralised in situ with Sodium Hydroxide to give you Sodium Petroleum 'Oxidate' which can be overbased. It's a sort of detergent albeit a very strange one. God only knows what it does! I suspect it would be very cheap to produce which may explain why it's used to supplement normal Calcium Sulphonate.
Wow that's very interesting, more of a process on the base oil, than a simple add pack.
Tom & PQIA just published a few more VOA's and I saw another oil (ProLine SAE 30) with about 450 ppm Na. There are quite a few out there.
Yeah, I saw the ProLine SAE 30 too. I thought there's no VII to worry about so the DI treat should be on the low side yet the very low level of calcium in the oil can't possibly account for the oil's TBN. The sodium in the oil must be contributing to the TBN but typical so-called 'natural' sodium sulphonate has a low TBN and wouldn't. So maybe overbased Sodium 'Oxidate' does make sense after all.
Most engine oil patents are unimaginative and boring but the idea that you could wilfully destroy lubricant base oil to make potentially useful lubricant additives is quite brilliant! The patents I read really just dealt with the air blowing of hot base oil to induce oxidation, the products of which are acidic. However you could just as easily blow the base oil with ammonia or sulphur dioxide or nitrogen dioxide or mixtures thereof to get all sorts of weird and wonderful molecules!
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Rather what seems to be happening is that you take base oil, get it really hot and blow air or oxygen through it. The acidic oxidation products that are formed are neutralised in situ with Sodium Hydroxide to give you Sodium Petroleum 'Oxidate' which can be overbased. It's a sort of detergent albeit a very strange one. God only knows what it does! I suspect it would be very cheap to produce which may explain why it's used to supplement normal Calcium Sulphonate.
Wow that's very interesting, more of a process on the base oil, than a simple add pack.
Tom & PQIA just published a few more VOA's and I saw another oil (ProLine SAE 30) with about 450 ppm Na. There are quite a few out there.
Yeah, I saw the ProLine SAE 30 too. I thought there's no VII to worry about so the DI treat should be on the low side yet the very low level of calcium in the oil can't possibly account for the oil's TBN. The sodium in the oil must be contributing to the TBN but typical so-called 'natural' sodium sulphonate has a low TBN and wouldn't. So maybe overbased Sodium 'Oxidate' does make sense after all.
Most engine oil patents are unimaginative and boring but the idea that you could wilfully destroy lubricant base oil to make potentially useful lubricant additives is quite brilliant! The patents I read really just dealt with the air blowing of hot base oil to induce oxidation, the products of which are acidic. However you could just as easily blow the base oil with ammonia or sulphur dioxide or nitrogen dioxide or mixtures thereof to get all sorts of weird and wonderful molecules!
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Euro versions have traces of sodium in it. Mainly it is zinc, moly and calcium.
Interesting, Joe said something similar, about Na probably not being used in Euro grades.
So I suspect my Aussie SynPower 0W-40 with Euro OEM specs has very little Na in it.
I've used a lot of DuraBlend 10W-40 A3/B4 do you think that will also be low on sodium? Not that it matters, it was a fine oil that served me well, I would happily use it again.
I doubt it. Valvoline saved the NA for ISLAC grade PCMO here. Every VOA I have seen had trace amounts of NA in ACEA Valvoline products.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Euro versions have traces of sodium in it. Mainly it is zinc, moly and calcium.
Interesting, Joe said something similar, about Na probably not being used in Euro grades.
So I suspect my Aussie SynPower 0W-40 with Euro OEM specs has very little Na in it.
I've used a lot of DuraBlend 10W-40 A3/B4 do you think that will also be low on sodium? Not that it matters, it was a fine oil that served me well, I would happily use it again.
I doubt it. Valvoline saved the NA for ISLAC grade PCMO here. Every VOA I have seen had trace amounts of NA in ACEA Valvoline products.
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Euro versions have traces of sodium in it. Mainly it is zinc, moly and calcium.
Interesting, Joe said something similar, about Na probably not being used in Euro grades.
So I suspect my Aussie SynPower 0W-40 with Euro OEM specs has very little Na in it.
I've used a lot of DuraBlend 10W-40 A3/B4 do you think that will also be low on sodium? Not that it matters, it was a fine oil that served me well, I would happily use it again.
I doubt it. Valvoline saved the NA for ISLAC grade PCMO here. Every VOA I have seen had trace amounts of NA in ACEA Valvoline products.
G'day Dave1251, thanks for that mate. You have answered a question for me that I have had for quite some time.
So no Sodium in my A3/B4 DuraBlends, nice to know. Not that I have a problem with Na.
Cheers.
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Euro versions have traces of sodium in it. Mainly it is zinc, moly and calcium.
Interesting, Joe said something similar, about Na probably not being used in Euro grades.
So I suspect my Aussie SynPower 0W-40 with Euro OEM specs has very little Na in it.
I've used a lot of DuraBlend 10W-40 A3/B4 do you think that will also be low on sodium? Not that it matters, it was a fine oil that served me well, I would happily use it again.
I doubt it. Valvoline saved the NA for ISLAC grade PCMO here. Every VOA I have seen had trace amounts of NA in ACEA Valvoline products.
G'day Dave1251, thanks for that mate. You have answered a question for me that I have had for quite some time.
So no Sodium in my A3/B4 DuraBlends, nice to know. Not that I have a problem with Na.
Cheers.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Euro version 5W40 MST:
Valvoline 5W40 MST VOA
Valvoline 5W40 MST VOA
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Euro version 5W40 MST:
Valvoline 5W40 MST VOA
Thank you EdyVW
Yes that's one of the oils I can get here, a mid-SAPS 5W-40, good for a light duty diesel. Thanks for the VOA link.
I have some full SAPS SynPower 0W-40 A3/B4 and some Valvoline oil filters with synthetic reinforced filter media and nicely deburred drain holes. I may have to go all Valvoline on my next oil change.
Euro version 5W40 MST:
Valvoline 5W40 MST VOA
Thank you EdyVW
Yes that's one of the oils I can get here, a mid-SAPS 5W-40, good for a light duty diesel. Thanks for the VOA link.
I have some full SAPS SynPower 0W-40 A3/B4 and some Valvoline oil filters with synthetic reinforced filter media and nicely deburred drain holes. I may have to go all Valvoline on my next oil change.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Euro version 5W40 MST:
Valvoline 5W40 MST VOA
Thank you EdyVW
Yes that's one of the oils I can get here, a mid-SAPS 5W-40, good for a light duty diesel. Thanks for the VOA link.
I have some full SAPS SynPower 0W-40 A3/B4 and some Valvoline oil filters with synthetic reinforced filter media and nicely deburred drain holes. I may have to go all Valvoline on my next oil change.
I am using it right now in my BMW diesel. Found it on a sale in May. It actually runs very smooth. I did not do UOA yet, but I might actually do it since I think this oil is seriously neglected. I mean it meets all important specs. and Valvoline is very transparent with specification. I also like that HTHS is 3.7cp.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Euro version 5W40 MST:
Valvoline 5W40 MST VOA
Thank you EdyVW
Yes that's one of the oils I can get here, a mid-SAPS 5W-40, good for a light duty diesel. Thanks for the VOA link.
I have some full SAPS SynPower 0W-40 A3/B4 and some Valvoline oil filters with synthetic reinforced filter media and nicely deburred drain holes. I may have to go all Valvoline on my next oil change.
I am using it right now in my BMW diesel. Found it on a sale in May. It actually runs very smooth. I did not do UOA yet, but I might actually do it since I think this oil is seriously neglected. I mean it meets all important specs. and Valvoline is very transparent with specification. I also like that HTHS is 3.7cp.
Yes Valvoline SynPower doesn't get much love around here on BITOG, but I trust them to make a good oil.
Their MaxLife and VR-1 is well respected here.
In Australia, they make a big selection of SynPowers and all at a good price, less than M1 and Edge.
Their MaxLife and VR-1 is well respected here.
In Australia, they make a big selection of SynPowers and all at a good price, less than M1 and Edge.
Originally Posted By: SR5
Yes Valvoline SynPower doesn't get much love around here on BITOG, but I trust them to make a good oil.
Their MaxLife and VR-1 is well respected here.
In Australia, they make a big selection of SynPowers and all at a good price, less than M1 and Edge.
People follow as others do. PU was popular on here, and everyone raved about it. It doesn't come up near as much these days. Maxlife is popular, which would make one assume synpower would be also, but it isn't. RP has 2 fans and not a fighting chance, and PYB is gods own nectar.
Product popularity rises and falls on BITOG. The reality is we all know deep inside none of the name brand API oils are really any better or worse than the next brand.
I've always liked Valvoline oils. They are all top notch. As far a Sodium, it's been in MS5K, Valvoline and others for years. I trust oils with sodium add packs just as much as calcium add packs.
Yes Valvoline SynPower doesn't get much love around here on BITOG, but I trust them to make a good oil.
Their MaxLife and VR-1 is well respected here.
In Australia, they make a big selection of SynPowers and all at a good price, less than M1 and Edge.
People follow as others do. PU was popular on here, and everyone raved about it. It doesn't come up near as much these days. Maxlife is popular, which would make one assume synpower would be also, but it isn't. RP has 2 fans and not a fighting chance, and PYB is gods own nectar.
Product popularity rises and falls on BITOG. The reality is we all know deep inside none of the name brand API oils are really any better or worse than the next brand.
I've always liked Valvoline oils. They are all top notch. As far a Sodium, it's been in MS5K, Valvoline and others for years. I trust oils with sodium add packs just as much as calcium add packs.
it's really sodium vs moly....
This is payback for people who post links that take 5 hours to read:
https://www.google.com/patents/US4844825
https://www.google.com/patents/US4844825
Any engine oil additives containing chlorine these days are strictly verboten.
The reasoning is that low temperature combustion of something containing chlorine will cause small amounts of chloro-dioxin to form and kill everyone that sniffs your exhaust pipe! IMO, it's way over-hyped but there you go. That's progress for you.
The reasoning is that low temperature combustion of something containing chlorine will cause small amounts of chloro-dioxin to form and kill everyone that sniffs your exhaust pipe! IMO, it's way over-hyped but there you go. That's progress for you.
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Euro versions have traces of sodium in it. Mainly it is zinc, moly and calcium.
Interesting, Joe said something similar, about Na probably not being used in Euro grades.
So I suspect my Aussie SynPower 0W-40 with Euro OEM specs has very little Na in it.
I've used a lot of DuraBlend 10W-40 A3/B4 do you think that will also be low on sodium? Not that it matters, it was a fine oil that served me well, I would happily use it again.
I doubt it. Valvoline saved the NA for ISLAC grade PCMO here. Every VOA I have seen had trace amounts of NA in ACEA Valvoline products.
G'day Dave1251, thanks for that mate. You have answered a question for me that I have had for quite some time.
So no Sodium in my A3/B4 DuraBlends, nice to know. Not that I have a problem with Na.
Cheers.
Good day to you mate. Hope the info was helpful and how is your spring down under?
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Euro versions have traces of sodium in it. Mainly it is zinc, moly and calcium.
Interesting, Joe said something similar, about Na probably not being used in Euro grades.
So I suspect my Aussie SynPower 0W-40 with Euro OEM specs has very little Na in it.
I've used a lot of DuraBlend 10W-40 A3/B4 do you think that will also be low on sodium? Not that it matters, it was a fine oil that served me well, I would happily use it again.
I doubt it. Valvoline saved the NA for ISLAC grade PCMO here. Every VOA I have seen had trace amounts of NA in ACEA Valvoline products.
G'day Dave1251, thanks for that mate. You have answered a question for me that I have had for quite some time.
So no Sodium in my A3/B4 DuraBlends, nice to know. Not that I have a problem with Na.
Cheers.
Good day to you mate. Hope the info was helpful and how is your spring down under?
- Status
