Whats the least expensive JASO MA spec full synthetic?

Japanese said:
The Honda GN4 motorcycle oil is not a blend. It's a conventional/mineral oil as well as the Valvoline blue bottle. Their advantage is that are designed specifically for motorcycles use, where Rotella is not.



Why no picture of a motorcycle on these PDFs, if the oil is approved for bikes? Oooh, I forgot - there is picture of a bike on the oil jug. Also they are far from the required viscosity, in this case 10W-30 or 10W-40. Also, as somebody on here mentioned - Shell lists bunch of specs under Specifications, Approvals, and Recommendations, so which one of the specs is specification of the oil, approved spec by any manufacturer, or is just recommended by Shell because these three terms are very different? To recommend something it doesn't mean that that thing is certified or approved by any entity?
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I feel like you are being very defensive. 15W40 is used by many vintage bike owners with no issues that I'm aware of. Do you have a problem with Shell? If yes, why?

I don't care if it's got the official stamp so much as long as it holds up and shifts well. Like I said, I ran Pennzoil 10W40 regular automotive oil in my bike for years and never had any issues that I was aware of. Maybe for vintage bikes it's less of an issue? I don't know. I don't own a modern bike so cannot comment.

It is true that it is not on the official JASO list.

You are right as far as I know on the GN4 being a conventional. I used it for quite a number of years and even though it's got the approval I think it works just as well as the T4. I have noticed it appears to retain its colour much longer. Granted, that is anecdotal, and I have no run UOA between either oil.

So, if you don't like Shell (I'm assuming?) then what is at the same price point that would meet your requirements? I'm not really aware of anything else. I've stated multiple times now that if there is something I will try it. Not hard having to replace the clutch pack in the 550 if some oil ruined it... Already replaced the pack earlier this year with all OEM disks, plates, and springs. Aftermarket stuff for the old bikes (probably new as well I'd imagine) leaves a lot to be desired because it makes the levers a lot harder to grab.
 
This is becoming a urinary Olympiad about cost in a resurrected argument about Rotella. This has been discussed ad-nauseam on BITOG. With that said, GN4 is short of ordinary with respect to used oil analysis around here. Oil retaining color has nothing to do with an oil doing its job when comparing at similar mileage intervals.

It's been fairly well established the major companies do not represent something to fulfill a requirement when it doesn't. That's going into the weeds. Never had a failure to my knowledge using an oil that meets the spec but technically hasn't done the paperwork. That's again, going into the weeds reaching for something. Honestly the number of bikes that run straight automotive oil and never have a problem does more to convince me the whole JASO thing is over rated.

I've asked this question many times on this forum, someone please point out the magic pixie dust that is a friction modifier that is harmful to wet clutches.

When real world experience shows Rotella has performed for probably half a century and collectively billions of miles, is there a point in debating it? GN4 shows poor viscosity retention, etc, is it worthy lifting it up simply because Honda has submitted the official paperwork for the designation?

M1 10w40 4T for $10 a quart, and the win. Kicks GN4 and Rotella into the ditch with respect to used oil analysis and viscosity retention, shift quality, etc.
 
There is no such thing as motorcycle oil. It is just marketing too get more money from you. If your owners manual says to use api sj or higher that oil is safe for your bike with or without jaso. The magic pixie dust that is bad for wet clutches is too much moly.
 
Japanese said:
Any proof of that? May we see it on paper?
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Of course you may see it on paper. Go to the used oil analysis section for motorcycles. Have you looked at those?

Look for the most recent Honda 750 that was running Honda branded 10w30 and was at the very bottom of spec for viscosity after 752 KM (not miles). A few analysis below that the one who ran it in his XR650L and at 1900 miles it was a 20 grade. Two very different bikes and Honda branded oil couldn't hold grade in either one of its own branded bikes using the oil grade they recommended.

Rotella oils don't necessarily hold viscosity any better, but to lift Honda oil up as anything special doesn't hold water nor does saying that Rotella because it hasn't submitted official paper isn't good for wet clutches. Just trying to argue for the sake of arguing in my opinion.
 
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Japanese said:
Why no picture of a motorcycle on these PDFs, if the oil is approved for bikes? Oooh, I forgot - there is an image of a bike on the oil jug.
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Not on this jug of T4. The images on the jug are what's shown on the PDF.
https://www.amazon.com/Shell-Rotella-15W40-Motor-Gallon/dp/B00086I5ZI

Here a jug of T6 without the motorcycle on jug - and the T4 jug again. Are these new jug designs?
https://www.prosupply.com/motor-oil/shell-motor-oils/shell-rotella-t6-full-syn-15w40-1gal

https://www.prosupply.com/motor-oil/shell-motor-oils/shell-rotella-t4-15w40-1gallon
 
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Japanese said:
Some jugs have the motorcycle image. I think only T6 though. Not sure, if they are newer or older:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Shell-Ro...ic-5W-40-Diesel-Engine-Oil-1-Gallon/102646780

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Shell-Ro...c-15W-40-Diesel-Engine-Oil-1-Gallon/869812640
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The T6 example I gave in post 187 doesn't have the cycle on it. The T4 and T6 links I gave show the same logos as what's in the PDF spec sheets linked earlier in post 161, which don't show the cycle.
 
BigCahuna said:
I may have used the wrong oil in my bike. I bought 5 qts of Castrol 20w50 wt synthetic motorcycle oil, that said it's been tested in Harleys. The problem is, the motorcycle on the bottle wasn't a Harley. Will my '06 harley Road King die a sudden and painful death?.,,,
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Bike is trashed. You will need a new engine sad to say...
 
Bonz said:
The recommended OCI on those particular engines (77 Honda 550, 79 Honda 400 and many air cooled UJM's) was 1500-2000 miles back in the day, so you are following the recommended interval. No need for synthetic as the oil is dirtied tremendously with blow by from the looser tolerances of those air cooled engines and its dirty before it is worn out, per se.
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Full syn holds up better to blow by than does a dino or a blend...
 
grampi said:
Full syn holds up better to blow by than does a dino or a blend...
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That's what I was thinking. Guess we'll find out in due time on these old bikes with my UOAs. My question was not answered, but a UOA should show the oil getting dirty from what is claimed, yes?
 
Japanese said:
The Honda GN4 motorcycle oil is not a blend. It's a conventional/mineral oil as well as the Valvoline blue bottle. Their advantage is that are designed specifically for motorcycles use, when Rotella is not.



Why no picture of a motorcycle on these PDFs, if the oil is approved for bikes? Oooh, I forgot - there is an image of a bike on the oil jug. Also they are far from the required viscosity, in this case 10W-30 or 10W-40. Also, as somebody on here mentioned - Shell lists bunch of specs under Specifications, Approvals, and Recommendations, so which one of the specs is specification of the oil, approved spec by any manufacturer, or is just recommended by Shell because these three terms are very different? To recommend something it doesn't mean that that thing is certified or approved by any entity.
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So the GN4 is not as good as I gave it credit for :ROFLMAO: If an oil meets the JASO MA spec, it doesn't matter if it's marketed for motorcycles or not, it meets the requirement...that's all that matters...I guess you need a picture :ROFLMAO:
 
maraakate said:
That's what I was thinking. Guess we'll find out in due time on these old bikes with my UOAs. My question was not answered, but a UOA should show the oil getting dirty from what is claimed, yes?
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You'll need to do a UOA on both a dino/blend and a syn to see the difference...
 
grampi said:
You'll need to do a UOA on both a dino/blend and a syn to see the difference...
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OK. I figured any synthetic would objectively last longer. Considering T6 2.5 gallons come out to be practically the same as T4 1 gallon with rebate then why not? But we can try both.
 
grampi said:
Full syn holds up better to blow by than does a dino or a blend...
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My Hayabusa would noticeably "use" Mobil 1 T4 full synthetic, but with other non full synthetic oils it wouldn't use any oil between oil changes.
 
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