What Potential Harm From 0W Oils ?

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: Kuato


I've been running 0w30 almost exclusively in both our Jeeps for a couple of years now.


Which 0w30 have you been running, GC? Have you done any UOA's?



Sent you a PM.


Originally Posted By: dave1251
Dont cross the streams then the next thing you know cats and dogs will start living together.


This is real, Old Testament stuff!

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: artificialist
A 0w30 oil might shear faster than a similar 5w30 or 10w30, but only oil analysis could show that.

Since I never experience temperatures below freezing, I use 10w30 synthetic.

Many common misconceptions.

The benefits of 0W (and even 5W) oils vs 10W apply at all start-up temp's even during the hot summer months due to their higher viscosity indexes.

OW oils are made from higher quality synthetic base stocks and tend to use higher quality VIIs; put simply they are more technically advanced oils.

As far as oil shear is concerned the best indicator of that is an oil pressure gauge not a UOA, with the added benefit of providing your actual operational viscosity so you know if shear or fuel dilution is a problem or not.

If one is going to buy synthetic oil, the 10W-30 grade is largely redundant and therefore a waste of money (unless you can get it a dino price). Not to mention that a syn' 10W-30 has never been specified by an auto manufacturer.

 

[gogozy]

i like to agree, but.... still wondering why Acura does NOT spec 0w20 for J37 equipped MDX, TL and RL. (but I think 2013 will be the last run of J37 anyway..)

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
How do they figure out if it was the correct spec'd oil instead of the wrong spec'd oil?

In your hypothetical situation, if the dealer put in the wrong oil and there was a subsequent issue, it would be covered by warranty. For one, all records (from owner services and dealer services) showed the correct fluid being used.

Now, let's carry on with your hypothetical example. The engineers at the automaker really wanted to find out what happened. They have the service records and everything looks correct, but they don't know the dealer put in a 0w-30 instead of a 5w30, and it was marked as a 5w30. The engineers want a UOA.

I'm not expert, but I suspect that discerning the difference between a 0w-30 and a 5w30 in used oil might be a bit difficult. If it were new oil, I'm sure it could be done (after all, the PQIA runs compliance tests). Used oil sometimes shears, sometimes thickens, and so forth. So, would they be able to tell the difference between a used 5w30 and a used 0w-30 with sufficient confidence? I doubt it.

Now, as I said, if it were a 20w-50 or an SJ oil with higher phosphorus, or one used some strange additives that skewed the heck out of the analysis, or the paperwork all showed the use of Valvoline, yet no sodium showed up in the UOA, I could see that giving the engineers some pause. The engineers could probably pick up on a gross error, but a subtle one would be rather difficult.

But, in a more normal circumstance, I'd like to see someone try to take a UOA of M1 with 7500 miles, for instance, on it and determine conclusively whether it was 0w-30, 5w30, or 10w-30.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Thank you sir. That answer's my Q?'s, for now.

I tried every way I could think possible to Google it but never came up with that much in detail. Most of the answer's were, "Follow the spec'd oil for warranty, keep all records, YADA,YADA,YADA!"
In your last sentence, that was about 50% of my curiosity. I would like to even see them attempt that. If anyone has an answer for that, please step forward.

 

[milkboy]

I have a better question :
Instead of hypothetical arguments about what a dealership could do, or might do, to deny a warranty claim based solely on using an out-of-spec oil weight -

What has actually been done ? Can anyone provide an example of this ever having happened ?

IMO, much of this thread is similar to when risk-averse people talk endlessly about doing this or that to avoid getting sued, in circumstances where no one has ever actually been sued, or will ever be sued.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: milkboy
I have a better question :
Instead of hypothetical arguments about what a dealership could do, or might do, to deny a warranty claim based solely on using an out-of-spec oil weight -

What has actually been done ? Can anyone provide an example of this ever having happened ?

IMO, much of this thread is similar to when risk-averse people talk endlessly about doing this or that to avoid getting sued, in circumstances where no one has ever actually been sued, or will ever be sued.

+1

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: milkboy
IMO, much of this thread is similar to when risk-averse people talk endlessly about doing this or that to avoid getting sued, in circumstances where no one has ever actually been sued, or will ever be sued.

Yep, that's pretty much spot on.

@BlueOvalFitter: I guess that's why they would tend to ask for service records, and that's only if it became an issue. We've heard in other threads here that some places may ask for verification. Others might just be satisfied if the engine looks clean, the oil isn't the colour and consistency of tar, and the oil is at the proper level.

For me, though, if I were to run across such an unlikely scenario, my fault would be my honesty. I'm not fudging a service record under any circumstances.

And, over all the years and miles driven (notably in the taxis), none of this has ever been an issue. Part of it is luck, part of it is the nature of vehicles. Very rarely is the engine going to be a problem, particularly in a well trusted family of engines with a good history for reliability.

In some engines, I'd have few concerns about running an out of spec oil under warranty. On others, I'd be rather cautious, even after warranty. A Chevy small block isn't going to care whether it's 0w-30 or 20w-50. On a known sludger, though, I'd probably stick to the specified oil over short OCIs, so at least even after warranty, I might have a prayer with the oil company's warranty.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: milkboy
I have a better question :
Instead of hypothetical arguments about what a dealership could do, or might do, to deny a warranty claim based solely on using an out-of-spec oil weight -

What has actually been done ? Can anyone provide an example of this ever having happened ?

IMO, much of this thread is similar to when risk-averse people talk endlessly about doing this or that to avoid getting sued, in circumstances where no one has ever actually been sued, or will ever be sued.

Well said.
But that is the nature of a high percentage of members of BITOG.
One has to be somewhat neurotic to fret about a few ppm of wear metals in a UOA and then conclude one oil brand is better than another, even though the difference for the most part is just noise and will have no affect on the life of an engine.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
But that is the nature of a high percentage of members of BITOG.

Not to mention that the general public seems to muddle along with whatever a quick lube sells them, or the straight grade they found at a great bargain as a DIYer, or going double the recommended OCI with neither a care nor a problem.

But, here I am, documenting every oil change including grade, API/ILSAC specification met, and filter used, along with every receipt, reporting it here dutifully, in my maintenance record, and on the Pennzoil warranty website. Yet, in the taxis, I immediately doubled the OEM OCI with neither the slightest worry nor issue.

Caterham, between your VI fetish and my mixing phobia, perhaps Dr. Haas knows a good psychiatrist he could send to the board, preferably one that uses straight 30 (each quart being a different brand) in his sumps.

 

[Capa]

Originally Posted By: Garak

Caterham, between your VI fetish and my mixing phobia, perhaps Dr. Haas knows a good psychiatrist he could send to the board, preferably one that uses straight 30 (each quart being a different brand) in his sumps.

Lol, absolutely hilarious

Caterham, you'll be glad to know (Garak, not so much) that I am currently running 41/2 quarts of Mobil 0W-20 and 1 quart of their 0W-40. Next April that will change to 41/2 quarts of Toyota 0W-20 and 1 quart of Mobil 0W-40. The vehicle is a 1999 Lexus GS400.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: milkboy
I have a better question :
Instead of hypothetical arguments about what a dealership could do, or might do, to deny a warranty claim based solely on using an out-of-spec oil weight -

What has actually been done ? Can anyone provide an example of this ever having happened ?

IMO, much of this thread is similar to when risk-averse people talk endlessly about doing this or that to avoid getting sued, in circumstances where no one has ever actually been sued, or will ever be sued.

Well said.
But that is the nature of a high percentage of members of BITOG.
One has to be somewhat neurotic to fret about a few ppm of wear metals in a UOA and then conclude one oil brand is better than another, even though the difference for the most part is just noise and will have no affect on the life of an engine.

I switch back and forth between 5W20 and 5W30 and not even lose a wink of sleep over it. I am currently using PP 5W20 but have a Havoline 5W30 OCI waiting to go in.
CATERHAM, I was a mad oil mix-ologist back when Chevron Supreme was a hot item here. I would mix it with ANY synthetic oil that was on sale or just plain ole ST synthetic.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Capa
Caterham, you'll be glad to know (Garak, not so much) that I am currently running 41/2 quarts of Mobil 0W-20 and 1 quart of their 0W-40.

I'll grudgingly call that a well reasoned blend. I still don't like it.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Capa
Caterham, you'll be glad to know (Garak, not so much) that I am currently running 41/2 quarts of Mobil 0W-20 and 1 quart of their 0W-40.

I'll grudgingly call that a well reasoned blend. I still don't like it.

Garak you're funny.

Capa, that blend will still net you a 0W-20 but a heavy one with somewhat increased AW additive levels.

 

[Capa]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Capa
Caterham, you'll be glad to know (Garak, not so much) that I am currently running 41/2 quarts of Mobil 0W-20 and 1 quart of their 0W-40.

I'll grudgingly call that a well reasoned blend. I still don't like it.

Garak you're funny.

Capa, that blend will still net you a 0W-20 but a heavy one with somewhat increased AW additive levels.


Lol. You guys are funny.

Caterham, I was aiming for an extremely light 0W-30. How much did I miss it by?
My next fill, in about a year, will be 41/2 quarts of Toyota 0W-20 and 1 quart of Mobil 0W-40. I assume that that would be slightly thinner than my current blend?

 

[surfstar]

Wow, with 3 pages and a title like this, I could have sworn this would be an old thread. Nope. 2 posts by OP. Nothing new being discussed.

Not sure why we bother with these any more. OP has been around since 2010 also. This sounds like a n00b question.

 

[Garak]

Well, it was a valid question. Basically, are there any downsides to a 0w-XX oil? Of course there are. A consumer (or an automaker coming up with a recommendation) has to weight the disadvantages against the advantages.

 

[Ducman]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Well, it was a valid question. Basically, are there any downsides to a 0w-XX oil? Of course there are. A consumer (or an automaker coming up with a recommendation) has to weight the disadvantages against the advantages.


Agreed

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Capa
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Capa
Caterham, you'll be glad to know (Garak, not so much) that I am currently running 41/2 quarts of Mobil 0W-20 and 1 quart of their 0W-40.

I'll grudgingly call that a well reasoned blend. I still don't like it.

Garak you're funny.

Capa, that blend will still net you a 0W-20 but a heavy one with somewhat increased AW additive levels.


Lol. You guys are funny.

Caterham, I was aiming for an extremely light 0W-30. How much did I miss it by?
My next fill, in about a year, will be 41/2 quarts of Toyota 0W-20 and 1 quart of Mobil 0W-40. I assume that that would be slightly thinner than my current blend?

Using M1 AFE the HTHSV est' would be 2.85cP.
If you increased the 0W-40 amount by half a quart and reduced the
AFE to 4qts you'd get a very light 0W-30 with a HTHSV of about 2.93cP with a 176 VI.
Using TGMO, since it's lighter I'd go with 2 qts plus 3.5qts M1 0W-40. Estimated HTHSV would be 2.98cP with a 205 VI. Due to it's
higher VI this mix will be lighter on start-up to the AFE mix and still likely so at normal operating temp's despite the slightly higher HTHSV.

 

[CATERHAM]

Correction.
Meant to say - Using TGMO use 3.5qts plus 2qts M1 0W-40.