What more could I say to this guy?

[ToyotaNSaturn]

Wow! It's amazing what some people believe! That guy has some real "out-there" opinions. I used to buy OEM Toyota oil filters on my Sienna cuz I thought they were pretty good. Until I realized the same ones I bought from Wally world for my Saturn was what fit the Sienna. Why spend the extra $$ on an OEM filter to catch all that sludge? lol

I worked in Lincoln-Mercury parts for years, I don't know ANY of the clients (even the ones who were extremely wealthy) who cared about these sorts of things. They cared about their golf scores and having their cars washed at the oil change more than anything else automotive! God Bless them!

[ June 04, 2004, 11:58 PM: Message edited by: ToyotaNSaturn ]

 

[Pitbull]

I'm enjoying the direction the Lexusclub thread is going. Now if any of the Lexus guys read that thread they are going to be so confused they won't know if they should by Mobil 1 or Toyota dino oil or Wally world. I guess if they are smart enough to hold down a job that would give them the ability to buy a Lexus they should be smart enough to figure out what oil to use. We are

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

After re-reading the thread again, I can't believe, I mean I REALLY can't believe this guy thinks all that about OEM parts, especially oil.

Working for Ford/L/M, Motorcraft was our name-brand bulk source for oil in 10w-30. Motorcraft is made from Conoco according to Conoco's chemistries, not Ford's. (Ford makes the cars, Conoco makes the oil....Toyota makes his cars, Mobil makes his oil....globalization,hello!?!) IIRC, our dealer's bulk was actually QS pumped in from a local supplier...it wasn't even Motorcraft/Conoco! I wonder what his dealer uses... I bet he'd freak if he knew...

 

[mikep]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pitbull:
Chumly is a new member of ClubLexus that was his first post. Very strange, since the odds that this guy would pick out a 3-4 day old posted thread to do his first post. He has to be a member of bobistheoilguy that read this thread and decided to join over at the Lexus site to make fun of us.

---

Guess it's possible he's a BITOG double agent so to speak. Still, I can laugh at my obsessions sometimes. After all, how many people really give a rats arse what kind of oil goes in their car and never ever have a problem? I'd be willing to bet 90% of the motoring public has no idea what brand or weight is in the pan of their cars. Let's face it....we ARE different than the majority of the motoring public in this regard. Not saying it's a good or bad thing or thta we're better in any way...just different.

Just like how I've spent an entire weekend detailing both my wife's and my car. From wash, rotary buff with medium polish to fine polish to polymer sealant to interior shampoo and dressings...the whole nine yards. I've spent 12-13 hours making two cars look better than they ever have in the showroom but I actually enjoy it. How many people would obsess to that level? Most drive through the local car wash and are good to go for a month. That's fine too....for them. I can chuckle at myself and that extreme that I sometimes take it too.

 

[buster]

Paul Chebrini was his name on www.corolland.com. The guy is unreal. He knows quite a bit about Toyotas but mixes in his own warped view of OEM parts/oils. The guy is a headcase I'm telling you.

 

[Audi Junkie]

...as if Japon even has their own domestic oil industry.

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

His posts today now downplay Auto-Rx. What a maroon. Auto-Rx is the sliced bread of oil additives. My car with 108K runs better than ever and gets 3MPG better than the advertised MPG...38 to be exact. The Toyota Prius claims 40-50MPG but often times doesn't deliver that. I'll drive my $4100 Saturn and use Auto-Rx and not buy another Toyota that's 4x-5x the price, thank you.

I got burned with that da** sludge issue and I changed the oil more often than the 3000 mile interval and still had issues...and a UOA to prove it. But since I didn't use Toyota oil and get it changed at the dealer, it MUST have been my fault! It couldn't have been bad design and engineering...and politics to achieve the ULEV emissions level....nahhh. Toyota is NEVER wrong according to Chumley and Saber. Those engineers are human, too.

 

[Raxen]

This guy may or may not be Paul Cherubini. If memory serves me correctly from experience on the t4x4pickup.com discussion group, although he extolled the virtues the Toyota oil, he admitted that he used Mobil 1 in his 400K Toyota pickup. He regularly lambasted the BITOG crowd on that site, however.

 

[Raxen]

I take back what I said in my last post. After reading all of the posts in that thread, it sounds all too familiar. I'm convinced it's him.

 

[Bio-T]

Monarch (Sabre) was banned by Bob 11/27/02. Then Chumbley was banned on 12/12/03. Both of these gents probably have an ax to grind and their posts on that site reflect their attitude. You are correct, they seem to pair up together to rant about our site.

Now lets look at the positive side of the posts. Look at how many of the Lexus members came over here and read Bitog. Not all posted that did come over here and learned alot of good info. So in the end, this site benefits from the exposure. Maybe a Thank You note from me to Sabre and Chumley would be appropriate.

 

[Pablo]

BiTOG is an evil plot to make you use motor oil in your engine...I ask you what has this world come to? How dare we venture away from car manufacturer branded oil.

Sure I'm a sales droid as are are some (few) other site sponsors (do I hide that fact?), whom pay a fee to the site owner here. The site owner sells no oil products. Those idiots are just wrong, and I think most insulting to the 4000+ members here that aren't selling oil, when they say this site is all/only about selling oil. To be honest, even I would have lost interest a long time ago if that was the truly only purpose of BiTOG - because there would be like 300 members......All Amsoil dealers!!!!

 

[Pitbull]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pitbull:

quote:

---

Originally posted by mikep:
That Chumly guy was actually pretty funny. The lug nut/bolt guy.

I guess I need to get out more because that gave me a good laugh.

---

Chumly is a new member of ClubLexus that was his first post. Very strange, since the odds that this guy would pick out a 3-4 day old posted thread to do his first post. He has to be a member of bobistheoilguy that read this thread and decided to join over at the Lexus site to make fun of us.

---

Maybe Chumly is Sabre using another email address? I think it is unusual to find two guys that stupid that fast on one thread. Now I'm having fun making fun of them.

 

[Ray H]

Sheesh... life's too short to get worked up over someone else's opinion. As an avid user of ST filters, ANCO windshield wiper refills, Kia SP-III ATF (buck a quart cheaper than the identical Hyundai brand), Chevron Supreme motor oil, etc. in my Hyundai, I can nevertheless see one reason that might justify manufacturer-brand OEM replacements and consummables in some people's minds: the W-A-R-R-A-N-T-Y. Given that warranties do NOT require the use of OEM products to keep them in force (and warranty booklets specifically state this), overly zealous dealership service writers (and even some manufacturer zone reps) continue on occasion to mistakenly inform or outright lie to owners that the reverse is true. It's obviously hard for these gatekeepers to deny a claim when an owner shows up with receipts for purchase of actual OEM parts and a written log of timely service if something tanks. As I stated, I'm personally not averse to the use of equivalent aftermarket parts and same specification fluids, but not everyone is willing to chance going toe-to-toe with dealer service department and factory goons in the event of a problem. I have never corresponded with the gentleman in question, nor have I read any of his various posts so far as I'm aware, and even if I had, I have no basis for an opinion on his mental or intellectual state. I'll simply offer my opinion that, 1> I'm comfortable with my personal vehicle maintenance choices and wish him the best in how he chooses to maintain his vehicle(s), and, 2> all opinionated people should be ignored and tolerated - in that order...

 

[Blue99]

Per Saber, ClubLexus 06/06/04

quote:

---

The specific additives and basestocks are Toyota trade secrets, of course. If the materials (metals, plastics, rubber, lubricants, etc) that go into making Toyota components and the engineering designs and the standards of workmanship that go into making those componets were not far superior to those used in American and European cars, how do you think it would be possible for Toyotas to be twice as reliable and durable?

---

Wow, now Toyota is utilizing steels, alloys, plastics, rubber & lubes that are "secret and far superior" to the materials used by other auto companies.

Did Toyota quietly develop these new materials internally?

If so,the "expertise" of the Toyota engineering department continues to grow. If a department was actually staffed to R&D all these new steels, plastics, rubber & lubes, the material engineering side would out number the product design engineers by 4 to 1.

More than likely, Toyota would also be actively selling or licensing these new materials.

With the ability to dream up fiction such as this, Saber could have a promising career writing headlines for the Star or Inquirer tabloids!

 

[ekpolk]

Sabre is just one of those all-too-numerous deadwoods, pathetically and completely disconnected from reality, yet still consuming good air that you, me, or our families might put to better use. There's nothing that anyone can do about these types, except ignore them. In his mind (if you can call it that), he's right about everything he says, simply because he thought the thought. Don't worry, external facts will never get in his way. I surveyed his comments, and have noticed at least three assertions which are objectively, factually dead wrong. Of course, functioning the way he does, he is incapable of facing this reality. Don't get frustrated with the attitude of individuals like this, if for no other reason than that they seem to take morbid pleasure from resisting what they see as the challenges from lesser persons (all who don't see the world the way they do). Respectfully recommend that you just tune him out and move on.

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Blue99:
With the ability to dream up fiction such as this, Saber could have a promising career writing headlines for the Star or Inquirer tabloids!

---

I was thinking Washington Post or New York Times...

 

[ekpolk]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ekpolk:
Sabre is just one of those all-too-numerous deadwoods, pathetically and completely disconnected from reality, yet still consuming good air that you, me, or our families might put to better use. There's nothing that anyone can do about these types, except ignore them. In his mind (if you can call it that), he's right about everything he says, simply because he thought the thought. Don't worry, external facts will never get in his way. I surveyed his comments, and have noticed at least three assertions which are objectively, factually dead wrong. Of course, functioning the way he does, he is incapable of facing this reality. Don't get frustrated with the attitude of individuals like this, if for no other reason than that they seem to take morbid pleasure from resisting what they see as the challenges from lesser persons (all who don't see the world the way they do). Respectfully recommend that you just tune him out and move on.

---

I'm such a hypocrite. After looking at this guy's chain of posts, I just couldn't restrain myself, so I went over to ClubLexus and vented on him. Forgive me, for I have sinned. . .

OK, now I'm going to tune him out and move on.

Edit for spelling.

[ June 06, 2004, 10:19 PM: Message edited by: ekpolk ]

 

[Matt_S]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ekpolk:
I'm such a hypocrite. After looking at this guy's chain of posts, I just couldn't restrain myself, so I went over to ClubLexus and vented on him. Forgive me, for I have sinned. . .

OK, now I'm going to tune him out and move on.

---

Actually, yours is one of the most intelligent posts on there, ekpolk. I was impressed. One of the funnier posts, IMHO, was the dirt someone dug up about saber getting fined for a pesticide violation. How rich!

 

[Pitbull]

quote:

---

Originally posted by 59 Vetteman:
Monarch (Sabre) was banned by Bob 11/27/02. Then Chumbley was banned on 12/12/03.

Now lets look at the positive side of the posts. Look at how many of the Lexus members came over here and read Bitog. Not all posted that did come over here and learned alot of good info. So in the end, this site benefits from the exposure. Maybe a Thank You note from me to Sabre and Chumley would be appropriate.

---

I think your right only good has come from both these threads. Members of both sites now can take advantage of the other sites information and both Chumley and Sabre have exposed themselves as being uninformed or unwilling to learn because of some need to be right??? You think they both have issues?

 

[Bror Jace]

I've been reading this thread but now have to chime in. I think I remember Monarch ... but can’t be sure. I do remember some loser named Greg who was whining because Bob wouldn't let him come here and openly sell products (I forget which brand(s)) without paying the sponsorship fees.

sabre is just priceless. What a perfectly programmed robot. The Toyota engineers not only build incredible cars, they have created the perfect consumer who not only believes every word in all the brochures, but even makes up some good stuff on his own.

I'm a Honda (and lesser extent, Nissan) fan, but I'm no boot licking toady.

I actually like Chumpley. He's brainwashed in the same way that sabre is (although not nearly as thoroughly) but at least he has a pretty good sense of humor ... and that goes a long way with me.

As for how manufacturers spec parts, they send out something like an RFP (request for proposal) stating an application and any critical dimensions they have in mind. Manufaturers submit materials and price bids and the car companies test the products, see the prices and make the purchasing decision. I was especially familiar with brake pads as I worked for a manufacturer (Mintex/Cantex) 10+ years ago. I remember seeing a letter from Ford that our brake lining was the highest quality of all the ones they tested ... but due to price, they were going with a different supplier. So, in order to maintain your Crown Vic/Mercury Marquis to the best possible standard at that time, you had to buy our aftermarket brake pads.

And with oils, you can be pretty sure they leave most, if not all, of the specs up to the API ... which isn’t the best idea, of course. Honda is a little weird and does use a few really different fluids including coolant, power steering, etc ... but those are isolated examples.

If I owned a Toyota, I'd join that site and chime in ... but not gonna bother for just a couple silly clowns. Others have already said a lot of what I would have.

I regularly patrol the Nissan forum I belong to looking for oil misinformation and then politely tear it apart, posting the real deal as best I can and where I see the same old myths: "Pennzoil causes wax build-up", "the only real synthetic oil is Amsoil," etc ...

Whenever I recommend brands, I try to recommend at least two different ones, that way no one can say I'm merely a secret salesman for one or another. I’ve have participated in a lot of forums of all types (not just automotive) in the past several years and have seen bullies (no other word fits as well) who try to dominate them with their opinions (often portrayed as fact) ... even if some of them are questionable. If the board tolerates this, that's their problem.

--- Bror Jace