What is my Honda Pilot engine's REAL problem?

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Adam_in_NH
I really like the vehicle, but not its computer. I'll buy another Honda for sure if they make this right.


I really hope they make this situation right. You clearly have followed the maintenance requirements as specified, and the engine is possibly sludged-up enough to produce abnormal noises, etc.

I do believe there is an easy fix though, even on a new one. I think this engine very simply requires oil changes every 5,000 miles, even on synthetic. I don't own a VCM-equipped one, yet I still change it that often. The engine bay is rather tight, the engine seems to run pretty warm, the transmission is physically large and there seems to be little airflow in the engine bay. There are two catalytic converters mounted straight to the cylinder heads: it's a recipe for heat issues. I truly believe the simple solution is frequent oil changes. The constant among many variables that seem to accompany problems with these VCM engines is owners following the lengthly oil change intervals. While it's patently Honda's issue to solve, I believe that more frequent oil changes on this engine would fix all of this before it begins.

 

[Adam_in_NH]

Thank you, Dave. Trustworthy people often trust others they don't know, and it has never proven to be a problem for me. Even if I get a 3AM call from a crank it will be well worth it for all the great information and advice from all these folks with so much experienced about this bees nest I have kicked. I really enjoy the banter as well and consider the passion that some of these folks bring to the forum to be really interesting and valuable. Thanks to every single person participating here! -Adam

 

[dblshock]

all 5/20 and 5/30 API motor oil is semi-synthetic

 

[Adam_in_NH]

Originally Posted By: WMSmotorhead
Holy smokes... this is one busy thread... My question...

Does the owners manual specify a very specific oil?

My Fords say... Motorcraft 5w-20 Synthetic blend for 5000mi intervals... for example.

Another Ford says 7500mi on Motorcraft Full Synthetic.

I have one with an OLM... it seems to be set for 6 months/5K miles.


Some owners manuals call for a specific oil... I use what I want, but I make sure I at least use "As Good As" the specified oil.


Yes, as stated above "API Certified, Premium Grade 5W-20 conventional detergent oil for gasoline engines. WAIT A MINUTE! I just double checked the Mobil web site and the Mobil Super, which the dealer's parts department told me IS their 'Mobil Bulk' listed on my invoice, is not identified on the Mobil site as being 'Premium' or 'Detergent'. WOW, is this our answer?

 

[WMSmotorhead]

No.. not likely. Did the manual spec a synthetic? 5w-20 usually doesn't come in a conventional. I have many many bottles of 5w-20 on the shelf, and they are all synthetic blended.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: Adam_in_NH

Yes, as stated above "API Certified, Premium Grade 5W-20 conventional detergent oil for gasoline engines. WAIT A MINUTE! I just double checked the Mobil web site and the Mobil Super, which the dealer's parts department told me IS their 'Mobil Bulk' listed on my invoice, is not identified on the Mobil site as being 'Premium' or 'Detergent'. WOW, is this our answer?


No. Those are just buzz words.

Please focus on the fact that your OLM went significantly longer than the mean for other users of the same engine. Find out why. Check the model specific forums for Pilot and Odyssey.

 

[bodeh6]

Originally Posted By: WMSmotorhead
No.. not likely. Did the manual spec a synthetic? 5w-20 usually doesn't come in a conventional. I have many many bottles of 5w-20 on the shelf, and they are all synthetic blended.


Ummmm.... There's lots of conventional 5W-20.

Valvoline White Bottle
Pennzoil Yellow Bottle
Mobil Super 5000
Quaker State Green Bottle
Castrol GTX
and so on

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: dblshock
all 5/20 and 5/30 API motor oil is semi-synthetic


Wah??

Where did you read that?

Not true.

 

[Adam_in_NH]

Originally Posted By: WMSmotorhead
No.. not likely. Did the manual spec a synthetic? 5w-20 usually doesn't come in a conventional. I have many many bottles of 5w-20 on the shelf, and they are all synthetic blended.


The manual does not tell me to use a conventional or synthetic oil, but it does allow me to use a synthetic oil as long as it meets the spec mentioned above. My dealer used Mobil Super 5W-20 which is a conventional oil.

 

[WMSmotorhead]

Mobil Super is only guaranteed to give you 5000mi. It says so in bold print on the bottle. Mobil Super 5000.

 

[Mau]

As some have mentioned I would run Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 or Rotella T6 5w30 for 5k oci and see if it starts to clean it up.

I just came back from changing my TL which also has the J35 however non VCM. The OLM took it to 8000KM (~5000miles) however the car was stored during winter.

I double checked the owners manual and it does state to follow the OLM and not exceed 1 year interval.

Our RDX's OLM is also spot on however it's calibrated for Synthetic and usually only takes us to ~4000miles. RDX is spotless through the fill hole, the TL is a bit darker then I'd like however I got the car used like this and have been running PP in it since.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
No. Those are just buzz words.


Pablo is absolutely right. If the oil is modern, API certified multi-grade motor oil, it will be premium and it will be a detergent motor oil. And the Mobil 5000 is not guaranteed only to 5000 miles. It is guaranteed to 5000 miles or the OCI recommended by the manufacturer, even if that exceeds 5000 miles, assuming that the oil is specified for the vehicle. For example, Mobil 5000 5w-30 would not be guaranteed for 5000 miles OR the OEM recommended OCI for a brand new S4, since it is not the appropriate oil.

 

[dblshock]

just checked 3 different 5/20 brands all say synthetic, all were purchased for less than .80

 

[Adam_in_NH]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: Adam_in_NH
I really like the vehicle, but not its computer. I'll buy another Honda for sure if they make this right.


I really hope they make this situation right. You clearly have followed the maintenance requirements as specified, and the engine is possibly sludged-up enough to produce abnormal noises, etc.

I do believe there is an easy fix though, even on a new one. I think this engine very simply requires oil changes every 5,000 miles, even on synthetic. I don't own a VCM-equipped one, yet I still change it that often. The engine bay is rather tight, the engine seems to run pretty warm, the transmission is physically large and there seems to be little airflow in the engine bay. There are two catalytic converters mounted straight to the cylinder heads: it's a recipe for heat issues. I truly believe the simple solution is frequent oil changes. The constant among many variables that seem to accompany problems with these VCM engines is owners following the lengthly oil change intervals. While it's patently Honda's issue to solve, I believe that more frequent oil changes on this engine would fix all of this before it begins.


I couldn't agree more. Back in the day I would change my oil at 3K religiously. Then the motors and oils got better and I went to 5K. Then I moved to synthetics and sold every vehicle with a perfect sounding engine. But with my 2009 Honda the dealer was so sure of himself I felt stupid for not keeping up with the times and doing what he said. I can tell you for sure that I'm going back to 5K intervals using synthetics only. I recommend everyone read the article here at BITOG: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/whats-in-your-motor-oil/
The message I got out of it was that conventional oils are a 'best-effort' of getting the nicest refinement out of crude oil where synthetics can be made to do exactly what is needed. After my experience I'm letting the 'dinos' rest in peace.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: WMSmotorhead
Mobil Super is only guaranteed to give you 5000mi. It says so in bold print on the bottle. Mobil Super 5000.



Incorrect answer.

 

[Adam_in_NH]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Pablo
No. Those are just buzz words.


Pablo is absolutely right. If the oil is modern, API certified multi-grade motor oil, it will be premium and it will be a detergent motor oil. And the Mobil 5000 is not guaranteed only to 5000 miles. It is guaranteed to 5000 miles or the OCI recommended by the manufacturer, even if that exceeds 5000 miles, assuming that the oil is specified for the vehicle. For example, Mobil 5000 5w-30 would not be guaranteed for 5000 miles OR the OEM recommended OCI for a brand new S4, since it is not the appropriate oil.


Thanks Garak. So it might appear my dealer is off the hook and my issue is with Honda. Just as well, they have the resources to make this right. LL&P

 

[dblshock]

I had a '10 Pilot 4WD, OLM was going off 8-9k ..sold it @28k cause changed work didnt need the space...VCM was annoying..terrible in the wind..wore tires horrible..poor fuel mileage

 

[dblshock]

oh, I didn't like changing the rear pumpkin VTM every other OCI either.

 

[WMSmotorhead]

Originally Posted By: dave1251


Incorrect answer.


Cut and pasted directly from Mobil's Website... in the description of Super.

•Unique formulation proven to help extend engine life
•Proven protection against sludge and engine wear
•5,000 miles of protection, guaranteed*

I didn't make that up.

 

[AVB]

Originally Posted By: WMSmotorhead
Originally Posted By: dave1251


Incorrect answer.


Cut and pasted directly from Mobil's Website... in the description of Super.

•Unique formulation proven to help extend engine life
•Proven protection against sludge and engine wear
•5,000 miles of protection, guaranteed*

I didn't make that up.


What The Period Of Coverage Is

The Mobil Super and Mobil Super High Mileage limited warranties are valid for 5,000 miles or your vehicle’s OEM recommended oil change interval, whichever is longer.

Additional requirements for all Mobil Super products include: 1) Oils must be put in service not later than five (5) years from the date of purchase; and 2) an oil change must be completed every six (6) months.