I see alot of FRAM bashing here,what acually is the problem with there oil filters.I have used fram filters for years without a single oil related problem.The truck we have at work has had nothing but fram filters and cheap quaker state for years and has 430000km,s on her(I can take a picture of the odometer if proof needed)and she still runs decent.Anyone here ever had a engine fail do to a Fram filter?
What is it about FRAM
- Thread starter keval85
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I used Fram filters for years, with no problems. Fram oil filters are not constructed as well as other filters........even the ones cheaper than fram. Much of the fram bashing here, is similar to valvoline bashing. It isn't that the product will damage your engine.......it's just the fact that for the money....you can get a better product.
Propflux01
$100 Site Donor 2025
The main bash with Fram is the anti-drain valve 'problem' that has been described on this website for quite awhile. Also Frams marketing has been in question letely.
Well I,m not here to defend fram but if the filter filters oil without blowing apart would it not be constructed decent enough,as for marketing I buy a product by my own research and experience and advise from guy,s like are on this site not by fancy advertisments .The only filter that I have had a minor problem with was a CARQUEST filter on my daughters neon,in the morning it sounded like a rod let go,replaced with a MOPAR filter and not a tick, and I was under the impression carquest filters where WIX made and suppose to be a top of the line filter.
The ToughGard line is not that bad of a filter. It has a silicone ADBV, and the SureGrip feature, while hokey to some, is actually very handy. The flow characteristics are average while filtration seems to be above average. I use them on the wife's new Taurus where I need to change every 4000 miles or so to maintain warranty status. If you look around, you can pick these up for about $3 - $4 apiece.
Instead of rehashing this again, why not just use the search function on this forum for FRAM?
Because it,s more interesting to talk about it then it is to read old posts
Kev, cardboard end caps, price too high, mediocre-at-best ADBV's. For $2, you can get the Walmart house brand that has better construction.
Oh, and that 7500 mile marketing thing for their X2 filter line is pure BUNK. Any filter (except for the Fram's own cheap ones) can make 7500 miles. So to charge $7 per filter for something that's no better than the $2 SuperTech is just a rip-off. I can't equate Fram to Valvoline at all...Valvoline doesn't own the market nor do they price their products above the competetion.
/sarcasm begin/
Like drugs, I just say "no" to Fram.
/sarcarm END/
[ August 19, 2004, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: ToyotaNSaturn ]
Oh, and that 7500 mile marketing thing for their X2 filter line is pure BUNK. Any filter (except for the Fram's own cheap ones) can make 7500 miles. So to charge $7 per filter for something that's no better than the $2 SuperTech is just a rip-off. I can't equate Fram to Valvoline at all...Valvoline doesn't own the market nor do they price their products above the competetion.
/sarcasm begin/
Like drugs, I just say "no" to Fram.
/sarcarm END/
[ August 19, 2004, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: ToyotaNSaturn ]
Perhaps an analogy will work here.
Everywhere I look I see a McDonalds. Maybe some folks drool with delight at shoving a Big Mac down their gullet but, I can think of a dozen places I'd rather go to eat a real (to me) burger.
Everywhere I go.... Kmart, ShopKo, I see Fram filters. Even stores with miniscule automotive sections will have Fram filters and often it is the only filter available.
Fram is mass marketed. To be placed in so many places they have to give retailers good deals. These deals are likely performed in two ways; the retailer's cost for the products is lower than other filter firms and..... Fram pays more to the retailer for the shelf space. Yep.... most manufacturers and distributors have to pay the retailer to stock their product.
To cover the cost to place those filters everywhere I would not be surprised if Fram cuts manufacturing costs to the bone to provide marketing money. I will not trust a firm that has to make the sacrifices necessary to allow mass marketing. Too many "corners have to be cut."
Everywhere I look I see a McDonalds. Maybe some folks drool with delight at shoving a Big Mac down their gullet but, I can think of a dozen places I'd rather go to eat a real (to me) burger.
Everywhere I go.... Kmart, ShopKo, I see Fram filters. Even stores with miniscule automotive sections will have Fram filters and often it is the only filter available.
Fram is mass marketed. To be placed in so many places they have to give retailers good deals. These deals are likely performed in two ways; the retailer's cost for the products is lower than other filter firms and..... Fram pays more to the retailer for the shelf space. Yep.... most manufacturers and distributors have to pay the retailer to stock their product.
To cover the cost to place those filters everywhere I would not be surprised if Fram cuts manufacturing costs to the bone to provide marketing money. I will not trust a firm that has to make the sacrifices necessary to allow mass marketing. Too many "corners have to be cut."
obbop - To cover the cost to place those filters everywhere I would not be surprised if Fram cuts manufacturing costs to the bone to provide marketing money. I will not trust a firm that has to make the sacrifices necessary to allow mass marketing. Too many "corners have to be cut."
By your logic 1/2 the products on store shelves should not be trusted (Chap Stick, BIC lighters, Pennzoil motor oils, Hostess Twinkies, etc etc etc) because they are mass marketed. Somehow I think there is a flaw in the logic.
sbc350gearhead - I used Fram filters for years, with no problems. Fram oil filters are not constructed as well as other filters........even the ones cheaper than fram. Much of the fram bashing here, is similar to valvoline bashing. It isn't that the product will damage your engine.......it's just the fact that for the money....you can get a better product.
I think you have it about right.
If Fram flters were as bad as the bashers portray them cars would be 5 deep on the side of the road due to Fram oil filter failure and Fram would be out of busness in a hurry.
There are oil filters in the marketplace that filter as good or better and in many cases cost less then Fram.
Those of us that "are in the know" avoid the "orange wall of death" and select an oil filter that is a better value.
I think you have it about right.
If Fram flters were as bad as the bashers portray them cars would be 5 deep on the side of the road due to Fram oil filter failure and Fram would be out of busness in a hurry.
There are oil filters in the marketplace that filter as good or better and in many cases cost less then Fram.
Those of us that "are in the know" avoid the "orange wall of death" and select an oil filter that is a better value.
I have found the anti drain back valve in the regular Fram to not be very effective. Oil light stays on for around 5 seconds on start up. Most other brands, the light goes out immediately. Per haps this is the reason Toyota stopped recommending the PH-8A size filter and replaced it with an iddy biddy one. The Fram X2 filter is OK in this respect. I've been using X2's in the Toyota for quite some time and I'm convinced that this is a **** good filter.. Th oil definitely stays cleaner longer since I've been using one.
Ther are literally millions of vehicles using Fram filters with absolutely no problems whatsoever and if they were prone to cause engine failure the company would be out of business by now instead of being the leading supplier of filters. That said, I probably would not use a conventional Fram (or any Fram other than the X2) precisely for the same reasons given by other people posting on the forum.. The competitive filters are constructed better. But if someone feels loyalty to Fram, go ahead and use them. They ain't thaaaat bad! I find the construction of the Fram air filters to be superior to competitve brands. Go Figure!
Ther are literally millions of vehicles using Fram filters with absolutely no problems whatsoever and if they were prone to cause engine failure the company would be out of business by now instead of being the leading supplier of filters. That said, I probably would not use a conventional Fram (or any Fram other than the X2) precisely for the same reasons given by other people posting on the forum.. The competitive filters are constructed better. But if someone feels loyalty to Fram, go ahead and use them. They ain't thaaaat bad! I find the construction of the Fram air filters to be superior to competitve brands. Go Figure!
Here we go again
. While I used Fram for many many years because I believed their advertising. Heck, I even paid more for Fram's rather than using the less expensive Motorcraft filters
! In my 1989 F-150 with the 300 inline 6 cylinder I had years of dry starts(horrible knocking) with the Fram filters. I blamed the oil and tried lots of different oils and still the start noise persisted. Plus several times my Fram filter almost exploded. I caught them in time only because the filter was easily visable. Switched back to Motorcraft FL1A and all my problems disappeared
. As far as Fram, NEVER AGAIN!
Whimsey
Whimsey
Well thanks for all the info guy,s,I am thinking maybe I will switch my old GMC sonoma over to AC-DELCO when the ARX treatment is complete
About that FRAM cardboard endcap breakdown myth - cardboard is a form of paper; the filtration media is paper, too. Paper breaks down in the presence of water, not oil. Not even hot oil. Could FRAMs be better designed? Definitely. Are they a danger to, or at best, only marginally effective for an engine's filtration needs? I don't believe so, but others, whose opinions I respect, disagree - sometimes vehemently. My beef with FRAM filters is that even their entry level models are pricier than their construction and material choice justify. (One of Jaguar Motorcars' directors once quipped that, "If there's a more expensive and complicated way to do something, Daimler Benz will find it." I believe the inverse is true of FRAM.) Besides the cheap and light construction, I'm personally bothered by the fact that FRAM's continued, unshakeable popularity is slowly forcing my favorite cheap filter, the Wal*Mart "SuperTech" line of filters, off the shelves at that retailer. I fret at the prospect of loss of choice.
I have used Frams for over 750,000 miles without a problem.
I searched the archives of the discussion groups and could find no evidence of a Fram filter ever having failed catastropically, without Fram having taken financial responsibilty. There were only two incidences of the end caps having broken apart. Both of these were caused by a crushed center tube. According to the Oil Filter Manufacturers Council, this is not an indication of a failed filter.
There is a lot of "I knew someone who said" or "It happened to a friend of mine". Those reports I consider of little value.
I have never experienced this start up noise problem that so many people attribute to Fram. I have used Frams on Izusu, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Suzuki, General Motors and Chrysler engines. I have seen about as many reports of start up noise attributed to other filters as I have Fram. The phenomena must be real. I am not sure that Frams are necessarily anymore likely than any other to cause this problem. I notice that everyone ignores the report, if it is a nonFram filter. It's an easy problem to spot so why choose an oil filter based on that.
I have seen real world testing using UOA that indicate that Fram's Extra Guard filters are comparable with much more expensive filters.
This one is very interesting.
http://jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2967909#post2967909
Keep in mind that his dirty oil is just oil with 3000 miles on it, with a Fram filter. Then look at page two and notice how little additional dirt the new filters were able to remove from this old oil.
BOBISTHEOILGUY also did a test comparing Fram AND M1 filters using UOA. Fram won, hands down.
Have you ever wondered why most of the oil filter manufacurers do not publish the micron ratings for their low end filters like Fram does?
I searched the archives of the discussion groups and could find no evidence of a Fram filter ever having failed catastropically, without Fram having taken financial responsibilty. There were only two incidences of the end caps having broken apart. Both of these were caused by a crushed center tube. According to the Oil Filter Manufacturers Council, this is not an indication of a failed filter.
There is a lot of "I knew someone who said" or "It happened to a friend of mine". Those reports I consider of little value.
I have never experienced this start up noise problem that so many people attribute to Fram. I have used Frams on Izusu, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Suzuki, General Motors and Chrysler engines. I have seen about as many reports of start up noise attributed to other filters as I have Fram. The phenomena must be real. I am not sure that Frams are necessarily anymore likely than any other to cause this problem. I notice that everyone ignores the report, if it is a nonFram filter. It's an easy problem to spot so why choose an oil filter based on that.
I have seen real world testing using UOA that indicate that Fram's Extra Guard filters are comparable with much more expensive filters.
This one is very interesting.
http://jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2967909#post2967909
Keep in mind that his dirty oil is just oil with 3000 miles on it, with a Fram filter. Then look at page two and notice how little additional dirt the new filters were able to remove from this old oil.
BOBISTHEOILGUY also did a test comparing Fram AND M1 filters using UOA. Fram won, hands down.
Have you ever wondered why most of the oil filter manufacurers do not publish the micron ratings for their low end filters like Fram does?
Seems I read of plenty of failures over in Ford Trucks, Oil and Lubrication forum with bad filters.
Probably not as many here because they aren't used by many members, just like Teflon as a lube.
[ August 20, 2004, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: rg144 ]
Probably not as many here because they aren't used by many members, just like Teflon as a lube.
[ August 20, 2004, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: rg144 ]
I've used Fram oil filters on my motorcycle for years without any problems. I also know other motorcyclists that have used them even longer without any problems.
The key is to do regular oil changes before the cardboard endcaps start to breakdown.
I use them because they are cheaper than any other motorcycle filter available for my bike.
For my cars, I use Quaker State (aka Purolator Premium Plus) and SuperTech (aka Champion labs)filters. Why? Because they are less expensive than Frams and are a better quality.
The key is to do regular oil changes before the cardboard endcaps start to breakdown.
I use them because they are cheaper than any other motorcycle filter available for my bike.
For my cars, I use Quaker State (aka Purolator Premium Plus) and SuperTech (aka Champion labs)filters. Why? Because they are less expensive than Frams and are a better quality.
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