whaddya think about the captain of Enterprise

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Originally Posted By: Pop_Rivit
Originally Posted By: andyd
I think it is a mistake.


I disagree.

Captain Honors showed extremely poor judgement when he made those videos. Disclaimer-I've not actually seen the videos, I've only read descriptions. If the descriptions are accurate they show extremely poor judgment and character for someone who was second in command (and soon to be in command) of one of the finest and most historic carriers in the US fleet. I certainly don't want my tax dollars paying a carrier commander with the on-duty ethics of a frat house party boy.

I expect much higher standards from our military.


Dead on Pop Rivet!!! I was thinking 'frat boy' when I first read about this disgraceful conduct. It only shows the long slide from 'duty, honor and country' that has occurred among the officer corps of all branches.... think MacCrystal.

I'd not be surprised that he has had some other ethical failings in his career that were overlooked, tolerated and condoned by his superiors. You don't get to this point without a 'history.'

I say Good Riddance to bad Rubbish! Don't pass go and don't collect your next promotion. Honor ... indeed!
 
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This has all been taken out of context and shown by media outlets focused on boosting ratings over presenting a balanced picture. CAPT Honors was the XO of a 45 year-old ship with 5,000+ sailors on an 8 month extended combat cruise...trying to raise morale while getting the water conservation and other messages to the crew. Hours and hours of video, and everyone is willing to reach an opinion based on a few seconds of clips on which to mis-judge him in the court of public opinion without knowing the entire story or picture.

Would you like to be judged based solely on selective seconds of behaviour extracted out of your entire adult career? How many of you who have judged could withstand the same scrutiny...based, not on knowing him or his career, but on hearsay about those seconds? Please...what kind of standard is that...particularly for a group like BITOG that prides itself on analysis...

Error in judgement? Maybe, but until you've lived on a ship, worked on the flight deck 18 hours a day, slept 3 high in a room with 100 other guys and faced water shortages for 8 months of monotony while doing a deadly serious job - it's hard for you to judge what is effective, funny or appropriate.

A military context, especially that of fighter pilots and shipboard life, does not translate well into the civilian world...

Everything he was doing in the videos was self-deprecating, like wearing the silly shower hat, making fun of himself, and clearly intended to raise the morale of those sailors.

He is one of the finest officers with whom I have ever served. Test pilot, fighter pilot, Commanding Officer of a fighter squadron known for his calmness, professionalism, judgment, intelligence and concern for his sailors.

Judge not, lest ye be judged.
 
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He should be fired.

Reason: you are the leadership of a team that needs to work as a team. This is the standard since the day military was born and if he couldn't live up to it, he isn't fit to lead.

The last thing you want is have a bunch of people that doesn't work together willing to die for a common goal in a war. Leaders that are high quality will make heroes out of ordinary folks, rather than making fools out of the people following him/her.

Call it shallow and political correctness, leaders should be able to feel proud of all of their past decisions, or at least be able to said they tried their best.
 
I'll listen to any thoughtful consideration on the qualities and nature of leadership to anyone with over 100 night carrier landings in fighters and/or who has commanded a military unit...preferably both...

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

- Theodore Roosevelt
 
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For all of you sickening "let's all be politically correct" and feel all warm, fuzzy, and feel good about ourselves, take the time to read Astro14's post again. All of it.

Then go look in the mirror.

And don't keep preaching that [censored] about "held to a higher standard," "not fit to lead," blah, blah, blah, ad nauseum.

You've got it right: it's nothing less than shallow and politically INCORRECT.

Which typifies what is wrong with this country. Manginas.
 
Everyone in the modern workplace should be very careful about crossing the PC line.That co should be counseled ,given sensitivity training and put back aboard the Enterprise as CO.
 
Exactly right.
All this PC nonsense has no place in the military.
I doubt the Chicoms and terrorist scum will be so touchy feely and PC when we bow down and beg on our hands and knees to negotiate,we will be crying for men this this Captain.
 
Astro14 makes some very good points. I've been out of the Navy since 97, and forgot what it takes to keep crew moral up months in to a deployment. That being said, Honors went about it the wrong way. ANY time a high ranking officer including any CO or XO clearly brings shame to the service, they will immediately be relieved until an investigation is complete. If he is court martialed, he will be found in voilation of Article 133.

Article 133. Conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman:
Any commissioned officer, cadet, or midshipman who is convicted of conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

He may be able to stay in the Navy, but he will never advance in rank. His career arc has topped out.
 
I got less than 4 months left and I will run out of the NAVY as fast I as I can. So I will give you my thoughts on the matter. The NAVY is losing a lot of valuable experance in both the officer and enlisted ranks, in the name of cutting cost. This is done by either not offering bonuses or saying a persons performance is not up to par. This was viewed by people who make a lot more money than me as a neccessary evil and the NAVY will endure. I will support this until the day my enlistment is up. As far as CAPT Honors's situlation this will be investigated and the appropriate actions will be taken. I have not seen the skits and I will not pass judgement. I can tell you there have been many of times I have not agreed with my leaders or thier conducts but after I have made my recommendations if the decison was made to follow my advice or not I made sure to follow my orders to my best of my ability without question even if I did not agree with it.
 
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The whole thing is unfortunate. It struck me as analogous to the parent who pals around with the children when they're being naughty. Where the parent should either a) turn a blind eye if they're not being too naughty or b) step in and correct the situation if they are being too naughty.
 
Dude is supposed to control and correct the behaviour of others under his command.

Demotion to a point appropriate is about as far as it should go...but it should happen.
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Please...what kind of standard is that...particularly for a group like BITOG that prides itself on analysis...

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Everything he was doing in the videos was self-deprecating, like wearing the silly shower hat, making fun of himself, and clearly intended to raise the morale of those sailors.


Would you be happy bringing those vids to BITOG ?
 
I find it interesting that only once have I seen interviews with the sailors who served, and those men and women stated, "he is the best XO we ever had...we loved him".

I would ask that the full content of every single one of his broadcasts to the crew be viewed before rendering judgement on their content. I don't have access to all the videos in their full length...

I have only seen seconds-long clips of selected videos pasted together out of context for sound bites and ratings, rendering a fair judgement impossible.

I would ask that his career be evaluated on the basis of all of his actions and service, beyond just the creation of the videos.

Were you in the position of being judged on incomplete sets of facts and evidence, you would expect the same consideration.

In the meantime, his career is effectively terminated by the decision to relieve him of command. Military officers are indeed held to a higher standard of both behaviour and integrity. The loss of confidence by his superiors is enough to remove him from command...
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14


I would ask that the full content of every single one of his broadcasts to the crew be viewed before rendering judgement on their content. I don't have access to all the videos in their full length...

I have only seen seconds-long clips of selected videos pasted together out of context for sound bites and ratings, rendering a fair judgement impossible.



IMO this is fair and NOT how the media portrays anything. Were the videos off color enough to create an issue? Perhaps, context or not... But they can still get blown out of proportion via the presentation.

Your points are all good and valuable.
 
Originally Posted By: andyd
getting the boot? I think it is a mistake. He is being taken over the hurdles for a modern rendition of something that had been going on in naval and exploration vessels forever. Skits and such as a moral booster. Crossing the "Line" for the first time etc. Were they tasteless ? Probably. How else do you get a buncha 20 somethings attention? This sounds like much ado about nothing. It makes me wonder about how Bull Halsey, Chesty Puller, or Patton would have done in todays armed forces. Sheeesh!




I agree. It's amazing that the former President can carry on with an intern in the oval office and his judgement isn't questioned but this guy tries to boost morale and his judgement is. Another DOUBLE STANDARD.
 
Originally Posted By: pbm


I agree. It's amazing that the former President can carry on with an intern in the oval office and his judgement isn't questioned but this guy tries to boost morale and his judgement is. Another DOUBLE STANDARD.


I think an impeachment is a questioning.
wink.gif


As for the video... it's... stupid! Must be inside humor.
 
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