We Don't Need No Stinking De-Icing!

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Not hard to believe at all, Bill.

The flying public searches for the lowest fare, assuming that all airlines, and all pilots, meet the same standards.

Bad assumption.

In the industry, we see examples of poor decisions, bad judgement, lax safety practices, all the time.
It is like every other industry or profession , there is good bad and in between.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Not hard to believe at all, Bill.

The flying public searches for the lowest fare, assuming that all airlines, and all pilots, meet the same standards.

Bad assumption.

In the industry, we see examples of poor decisions, bad judgement, lax safety practices, all the time.


It just seems like such a tremendously high risk to any reward. A bit like leaving for a long road trip, without first checking your tire pressure or fluid levels in your vehicle.

 

[Shannow]

Back 15 year ago, in a now defunct power station, there was one guy about to run up a 500MW (625,000hp) turbine, with the expansions WAY outside the envelope.

When quizzed, he explained that he kept meticulous notes, and had run them up successfully far worse than that before without incident.

One of those brain types who if confronted with too much information has to "test the outcome".

The vids are horrifying...

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Not hard to believe at all, Bill.

The flying public searches for the lowest fare, assuming that all airlines, and all pilots, meet the same standards.

Bad assumption.

In the industry, we see examples of poor decisions, bad judgement, lax safety practices, all the time.


It just seems like such a tremendously high risk to any reward. A bit like leaving for a long road trip, without first checking your tire pressure or fluid levels in your vehicle.


Completely agree.

The "Normalization of deviance" is common, unfortunately, and explains many of the accidents (including the shuttle accidents).

If 5 knots fast is OK on approach, and you get away with it, then 10 knots fast is OK.

After a while, maybe 15, or even twenty, is OK, and the deviations continue to grow, and keep being accepted.

And soon, you've created a culture where an airplane (737) crosses the threshold of a short runway (Burbank) at 80 knots fast, without landing flaps, and touches down long, skidding off the end into a gas station.

I'll guarantee that wasn't the first time that pilot flew way above target airspeed, or was late in getting landing flaps selected during the approach.

But each time the deviation occurs without consequence, it becomes accepted unconsciously as "normal". The risk is still there, but the poor practice is no longer perceived as risky.

Normalization of deviance is something that we work, constantly, to eliminate precisely because it's both pernicious and prevalent.

 

[CT8]

When I was employees I went up to an Aeroflot plane parked in the cargo area at SFO and there were a few firemen looking at the jet. The front tires were worn out,it looked like the "cord " was exposed. Maybe Russian tire tech.

 

[ragtoplvr]

to deal with high landing speeds some early jet aircraft tires had textile in the tread, some were even called bag of rags tires. This is obsolete now, but maybe Russia still uses that technology.

Rod

 

[john_pifer]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Not hard to believe at all, Bill.

The flying public searches for the lowest fare, assuming that all airlines, and all pilots, meet the same standards.

Bad assumption.

In the industry, we see examples of poor decisions, bad judgement, lax safety practices, all the time.


It just seems like such a tremendously high risk to any reward. A bit like leaving for a long road trip, without first checking your tire pressure or fluid levels in your vehicle.


Completely agree.

The "Normalization of deviance" is common, unfortunately, and explains many of the accidents (including the shuttle accidents).

If 5 knots fast is OK on approach, and you get away with it, then 10 knots fast is OK.

After a while, maybe 15, or even twenty, is OK, and the deviations continue to grow, and keep being accepted.

And soon, you've created a culture where an airplane (737) crosses the threshold of a short runway (Burbank) at 80 knots fast, without landing flaps, and touches down long, skidding off the end into a gas station.

I'll guarantee that wasn't the first time that pilot flew way above target airspeed, or was late in getting landing flaps selected during the approach.

But each time the deviation occurs without consequence, it becomes accepted unconsciously as "normal". The risk is still there, but the poor practice is no longer perceived as risky.

Normalization of deviance is something that we work, constantly, to eliminate precisely because it's both pernicious and prevalent.


I see normalization of deviance all the time in my field (aircraft maintenance). I hadn't heard that exact term before, but I know exactly what you mean by it.

The idea can be summed up by the following, very common, phrase:

"It'll be fine."