warm up time before driving hard (in WARM temps)

[dparm]

I can't believe people still believe they need to let the car idle in the garage for 5 minutes to "warm it up".

Start the car and drive it. The engine will reach temperature much quicker under load and you will not be polluting like crazy.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: dparm
I can't believe people still believe they need to let the car idle in the garage for 5 minutes to "warm it up".

Start the car and drive it. The engine will reach temperature much quicker under load and you will not be polluting like crazy.


I agree! Even in the dead of winter I start my cars and go within 15 seconds. I just use a very very light foot on the throttle while it's warming up. I have a neighbor that's in the habit of warming up her car for 15-20 minutes in the winter and she gets so used to that habit that even in the spring when it's 40-45 degrees in the morning she still warms up the car!

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: dparm
I can't believe people still believe they need to let the car idle in the garage for 5 minutes to "warm it up".

Start the car and drive it. The engine will reach temperature much quicker under load and you will not be polluting like crazy.


I agree! Even in the dead of winter I start my cars and go within 15 seconds. I just use a very very light foot on the throttle while it's warming up. I have a neighbor that's in the habit of warming up her car for 15-20 minutes in the winter and she gets so used to that habit that even in the spring when it's 40-45 degrees in the morning she still warms up the car!


I agree with both of you. Drive it to warm it up, just take it easy.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada

I'm wondering with newer oil tech that warm up is becoming another myth.


Newer oil tech doesn't fix the fact that when the engine isn't at its designed operating temperature all of the pieces don't fit together like the engineers want them too. Some clearances are tighter, others looser. Pistons may be oval instead of round for a little while etc...



First of all, the whole clearances thing is a myth in a modern street engine. These engines are ROUTINELY tested in sub zero temps at full power at start up! Doesn't seem to hurt them. And they're not running fancy pants synthetics in most of them.

Pistons take seconds to get to operating temp...seconds. Rotating assemblies are fine hot or cold. Meantime with a high tech synthetic my point remains... do we really REQUIRE a specific 'warm up' to prevent damages? I'm betting we don't.

And for Patman...must be nice to experience all that easy going torque with the EXCELLENT fuel mileage your car delivers at those engine speeds!

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: Patman


I agree! Even in the dead of winter I start my cars and go within 15 seconds. I just use a very very light foot on the throttle while it's warming up. I have a neighbor that's in the habit of warming up her car for 15-20 minutes in the winter and she gets so used to that habit that even in the spring when it's 40-45 degrees in the morning she still warms up the car!


No wonder I couldn't breathe with my Asthma when I lived in Mississauga.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada

I'm wondering with newer oil tech that warm up is becoming another myth.


Newer oil tech doesn't fix the fact that when the engine isn't at its designed operating temperature all of the pieces don't fit together like the engineers want them too. Some clearances are tighter, others looser. Pistons may be oval instead of round for a little while etc...



First of all, the whole clearances thing is a myth in a modern street engine. These engines are ROUTINELY tested in sub zero temps at full power at start up! Doesn't seem to hurt them. And they're not running fancy pants synthetics in most of them.


For the number of people with ticking only when cold, or only with hot, piston slap only when cold or hot, rod knock only when cold or hot I'm surprised to see you say it's a myth. I agree that it's not something to lose your sanity over and particularly it's not necessary to idle your engine until it's warm but clearances do change with temperature and temperature rise unevenly throughout the engine. We can't change the laws of physics just because we are capable of more precise machining over time.

Quote:

Pistons take seconds to get to operating temp...seconds. Rotating assemblies are fine hot or cold. Meantime with a high tech synthetic my point remains... do we really REQUIRE a specific 'warm up' to prevent damages? I'm betting we don't.


Pistons warm up very quickly, blocks/cylinders do not. Again, back to the case of engines with chronic piston slap during part of the warm up phase. It happens, and it's not a myth. Most engines, luckily, don't actually show any outward sign of issues.

As to whether "warm up" is required - that depends on what you mean. Before flooring it? It would be a good idea. Before driving? No not at all.

Some real world experience in my case. I commute via GO Train every day. At the end of the work day there are portions of the commuters that run to their car and race out of the parking lot (kids to pick up, trying to beat traffic, mental problems, whatever). Sometimes I walk home from the GO station along the access roads to the parking lots and I can recognize a lot of the cars. I've seen the same brand new cars start to spew blue smoke instead of grey/black exhaust after some time goes by of these kinds of habits. Even when these people don't start with beaters I've seen the decline of a lot of these vehicles. Do the owners notice? Probably not. Do they care? Probably not. Are they leasing? Probably. Will they still own the car to notice a reduction in engine life from 300,000km to 200,000km? Probably not. But, is there a difference? Yes. A one year old car should not be smoking blue.

 

[mva]

Some BMW's have variable redlines that advance as the engine warms up.

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2009/09/2009-bmw-m3-video-of-the-variable-redline.html

Note that the tach does not reach its full redline until the oil temperature reaches about 165F (74C).

They must do this to protect the engine when the oil is cold?

 

[edhackett]

My Subaru locks out the highest performance map until the engine shows some heat. It takes about a mile, a bit more in winter for the cold light to go out. Certainly not warmed up, but at least enough to put some heat into the pistons.

Ed

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: edhackett
My Subaru locks out the highest performance map until the engine shows some heat. It takes about a mile, a bit more in winter for the cold light to go out. Certainly not warmed up, but at least enough to put some heat into the pistons.

Ed



Wow! just like the old Ford`s used to have.

 

[JakeR22]

I wait a long time before I put my car into gear. At least until the starter disengages.

 

[lexus114]

yeah,I at least wait till I take my hand off the key after starting it.

 

[3311]

Originally Posted By: lexus114
yeah,I at least wait till I take my hand off the key after starting it.

That about how long I wait too.

 

[lexus114]

A guy I used to work with would literally leave the parking lot after work that way.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: JakeR22
I wait a long time before I put my car into gear. At least until the starter disengages.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Blue smoke simply means oil burning, many cars suffer from oil in the intake via PCV system. It's been discussed ad nauseum here. Most any newer car never smokes at all!

I own several piston slappin' GMC 6 liter gas motors and they shut up in about 10-15 SECONDS after starting. With a modern reverse flow cooling setup the engine warms up way faster than the temp gauge indicates, aluminum cylinder heads in one of my cars achieve 150-170 degrees in less than 2 minutes (measured via infrared thermometer)! No healthy engine has knocking rods or ticking lifters, thats a specific issue which warrants a unique procedure.

Note I did NOT say it was a myth, I said I wondered...

All I'm trying to get across is that for the average guy with a decent running car filled with high quality oil a warmup is a complete non-problem.

Start it and go.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8

All I'm trying to get across is that for the average guy with a decent running car filled with high quality oil a warmup is a complete non-problem.

Start it and go.


I think the discussion has branched. Originally it was about warming up before driving hard. Later posts have been about warming up before driving at all.

On the blue smoke - I know it's oil. That's my point. These people get new cars. Week after week I watch the cars/vans etc... I recognize floor it stone cold and race out of the parking lot. After a while there's a wiff of smoke. Then there's clearly blue smoke and they sound bad. Then there's blue smoke and a nasty smell.... And they just keep doing it.

When I see these cars deteriorate like this in several months when driven this way, what does that say? These people aren't giving even any 2 minutes - they're parked near exits, backed into their parking spots. They haven't even put on their seat belts and their flooring it out the access road. And remember, we actually get winter here too and they do this even when it's way below freezing.

I think this is exactly the kind of behaviour the OP is talking about.

 

[mjf6866]

Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada


When I see these cars deteriorate like this in several months when driven this way, what does that say? These people aren't giving even any 2 minutes - they're parked near exits, backed into their parking spots. They haven't even put on their seat belts and their flooring it out the access road. And remember, we actually get winter here too and they do this even when it's way below freezing.

I think this is exactly the kind of behaviour the OP is talking about.




thats not my behavior! the car was running for at least 5 or 6 minutes and the needle was moving before i got on it. i would wait even longer in the cold temps. it was 80* out.

 

[rclint]

Past experience I had a 97 Honda Accord 4 cylinder that when living at location before my current I launched every morning within 45 seconds... That car was sold with 260,000 miles on it running 10k OCI with was extended as well. Now gasp many times I was running Rotella in that very engine however it was Rotella T BUT times was also regular HDEO 15w40 !! The engine never consumed oil enough to add any during 10k OCI's, the engine saw short work routes for a few years, and long 120 miles each way for a period of time as well.. I did however at the end before selling the car start running 5w-20, engine was still outstanding getting 27-30 MPG with only a very minor oil leak, more of a spot, and I assume that was where the minute oil lose was coming from during the OCI still not enough to add make up. oil...

I'm not telling anyone how to drive their car, but we are not driving steam engines where you have to bring it up to temp, ease in to it to get pressure regulated etc... our modern engines (mid 80's on) are works of art as to the abuse they can take... As far as tolerances, temperature of metals, and oil etc it's a very insignificant point when you look at the entire picture with pressurized lubrication to the most susceptible parts... This last paragraph is just my opinion, but warm up times be it winter or summer are pretty much a thing of the past... as in the way past 1920's or so ?

Again I reference military applications, gen sets, lawn engines (which state in the book bring to full speed for quick operating temp & full power) fire house engines.. diesel or what they are still based on the same mechanical moving parts... Lets not get into the fuel injection age where we don't have to dump huge amounts of fuel into the engine to acquire start up... nor electronic controlled components that prevent over revving while cold... and then the heat exchangers to bring an engine up to operating temp at a much faster rate.

 

[Craig in Canada]

Originally Posted By: mjf6866
Originally Posted By: Craig in Canada

I think this is exactly the kind of behaviour the OP is talking about.



thats not my behavior!


I didn't say it was the behaviour of anyone posting in the thread - the thread is called "warm up time before driving HARD". Not just "warm up time before driving". I figured that my observations of people who floor it right out of their parking spot dead cold would be of interest considering the topic.

 

[dparm]

Honda VTEC motors do not allow the cam lobe switch at low temps. I would assume a lot of variable valve timing motors do something similar to prevent damage or excess wear.