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CVT, one of the most annoying thing I have ever experienced in my life.
Wards article on CVT's
- Thread starter supton
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Knowing how to drive a stick shift vehicle, and wanting to do the additional work of shifting and working the clutch are two different things.
Most drivers, whether they know how to work a MT or not do not want to be bothered and prefer automatics. For sure, true in the US.
Most drivers, whether they know how to work a MT or not do not want to be bothered and prefer automatics. For sure, true in the US.
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I'm okay with CVTs as long as they can reliably run 200K.
I would have no problem buying a Honda or a Toyota with a CVT
We didn't know that are 15 CRV had a CVT when we bought it. I probably would have steered clear if I knew. I guess I just get to hope and pray!
Honda doesn't seem to have the problems that Nissan has. I'd drive a Honda CVT
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I'm okay with CVTs as long as they can reliably run 200K.
I would have no problem buying a Honda or a Toyota with a CVT
We didn't know that are 15 CRV had a CVT when we bought it. I probably would have steered clear if I knew. I guess I just get to hope and pray!
I haven't read that they blow up. Have you?
Nissan CVTs are quite unreliable still. Toyota, Subaru, Honda seem to have figured out how to make a reliable CVT.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I'm okay with CVTs as long as they can reliably run 200K.
I would have no problem buying a Honda or a Toyota with a CVT
We didn't know that are 15 CRV had a CVT when we bought it. I probably would have steered clear if I knew. I guess I just get to hope and pray!
Honda doesn't seem to have the problems that Nissan has. I'd drive a Honda CVT
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I'm okay with CVTs as long as they can reliably run 200K.
I would have no problem buying a Honda or a Toyota with a CVT
We didn't know that are 15 CRV had a CVT when we bought it. I probably would have steered clear if I knew. I guess I just get to hope and pray!
I haven't read that they blow up. Have you?
Nissan CVTs are quite unreliable still. Toyota, Subaru, Honda seem to have figured out how to make a reliable CVT.
Originally Posted By: SeaJay
Knowing how to drive a stick shift vehicle, and wanting to do the additional work of shifting and working the clutch are two different things.
Most drivers, whether they know how to work a MT or not do not want to be bothered and prefer automatics. For sure, true in the US.
I agree, the auto vs manual superiority debate is too black and white among gear heads. I've owned traditional autos, CVTs, and manuals and I can see a use for all of them. Automatics make fantastic daily drivers/commuters because it's just a PITA to drive a manual in heavy traffic. Manuals make sports cars, weekend cruisers, and motorcycles a ton of fun.
Knowing how to drive a stick shift vehicle, and wanting to do the additional work of shifting and working the clutch are two different things.
Most drivers, whether they know how to work a MT or not do not want to be bothered and prefer automatics. For sure, true in the US.
I agree, the auto vs manual superiority debate is too black and white among gear heads. I've owned traditional autos, CVTs, and manuals and I can see a use for all of them. Automatics make fantastic daily drivers/commuters because it's just a PITA to drive a manual in heavy traffic. Manuals make sports cars, weekend cruisers, and motorcycles a ton of fun.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
CVT, one of the most annoying thing I have never experienced in my life.
FIFY.
I actually haven't driven one yet. Maybe I'll be surprised, in a few years the programming will be fantastic. What will make it "great" is to combine one with a turbo motor, like an Ecoboost. rpm rises with throttle setting, otherwise speed changes independent of rpm. I've always thought that, if I could not hear the engine, then I wouldn't care what the transmission was doing. May or may not be pleasant. Next time I'm in the market for a new car I'll have to drive one.
Originally Posted By: glock19
I agree, the auto vs manual superiority debate is too black and white among gear heads. I've owned traditional autos, CVTs, and manuals and I can see a use for all of them. Automatics make fantastic daily drivers/commuters because it's just a PITA to drive a manual in heavy traffic. Manuals make sports cars, weekend cruisers, and motorcycles a ton of fun.
I enjoyed driving my Jetta's manual, only a couple of times in heavy traffic was it an issue. Still, I've gotten used to my slushbox, and prefer it to a poorly set up manual, I think.
I've really been surprised by the 4AT in my Camry. The 6AT in my Tundra bugs me, but this 4AT seems pretty reasonable. Different programming I guess. I also don't flog this car very much, and as such, the automatic "fits" the car quite fine. If I were zipping around, cutting corners precisely, timing lane changes... then I'd have an issue.
CVT, one of the most annoying thing I have never experienced in my life.
FIFY.
I actually haven't driven one yet. Maybe I'll be surprised, in a few years the programming will be fantastic. What will make it "great" is to combine one with a turbo motor, like an Ecoboost. rpm rises with throttle setting, otherwise speed changes independent of rpm. I've always thought that, if I could not hear the engine, then I wouldn't care what the transmission was doing. May or may not be pleasant. Next time I'm in the market for a new car I'll have to drive one.
Originally Posted By: glock19
I agree, the auto vs manual superiority debate is too black and white among gear heads. I've owned traditional autos, CVTs, and manuals and I can see a use for all of them. Automatics make fantastic daily drivers/commuters because it's just a PITA to drive a manual in heavy traffic. Manuals make sports cars, weekend cruisers, and motorcycles a ton of fun.
I enjoyed driving my Jetta's manual, only a couple of times in heavy traffic was it an issue. Still, I've gotten used to my slushbox, and prefer it to a poorly set up manual, I think.
I've really been surprised by the 4AT in my Camry. The 6AT in my Tundra bugs me, but this 4AT seems pretty reasonable. Different programming I guess. I also don't flog this car very much, and as such, the automatic "fits" the car quite fine. If I were zipping around, cutting corners precisely, timing lane changes... then I'd have an issue.
Kestas
Staff member
I just bought a 2010 Nissan Murano with a CVT. My observations and reading the manual leads me to believe these units develop a lot of heat that can be a problem. The transmission pan is made of cast aluminum and is finned. The underbelly is designed to direct air cooling to the pan. The manual mentions the car goes into some limp mode if the transmission overheats. I'm not surprised it requires some special robust fluid.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
CVT, one of the most annoying thing I have ever experienced in my life.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
My mom owns a Dodge Dart with a CVT. Thing sounds like a wind-up toy car and drives like one to match. No thanks.
CVT, one of the most annoying thing I have ever experienced in my life.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
My mom owns a Dodge Dart with a CVT. Thing sounds like a wind-up toy car and drives like one to match. No thanks.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: edyvw
CVT, one of the most annoying thing I have never experienced in my life.
FIFY.
I actually haven't driven one yet. Maybe I'll be surprised, in a few years the programming will be fantastic. What will make it "great" is to combine one with a turbo motor, like an Ecoboost. rpm rises with throttle setting, otherwise speed changes independent of rpm. I've always thought that, if I could not hear the engine, then I wouldn't care what the transmission was doing. May or may not be pleasant. Next time I'm in the market for a new car I'll have to drive one.
Originally Posted By: glock19
I agree, the auto vs manual superiority debate is too black and white among gear heads. I've owned traditional autos, CVTs, and manuals and I can see a use for all of them. Automatics make fantastic daily drivers/commuters because it's just a PITA to drive a manual in heavy traffic. Manuals make sports cars, weekend cruisers, and motorcycles a ton of fun.
I enjoyed driving my Jetta's manual, only a couple of times in heavy traffic was it an issue. Still, I've gotten used to my slushbox, and prefer it to a poorly set up manual, I think.
I've really been surprised by the 4AT in my Camry. The 6AT in my Tundra bugs me, but this 4AT seems pretty reasonable. Different programming I guess. I also don't flog this car very much, and as such, the automatic "fits" the car quite fine. If I were zipping around, cutting corners precisely, timing lane changes... then I'd have an issue.
Turbo, Ecoboost, supercharger, ONLY problem is CVT and big torque do not go together. That is why Europeans never jumped on that train due to the fact that diesels have huge torque. Ask Audi, they were experimenting with it, and failure rate in turbo charge engines is ridiculous.
Not to mention it kills any thrill to drive a car. I drove Nissan, Honda, Subaru with it and had a feeling someone should pay me to drive it.
Originally Posted By: edyvw
CVT, one of the most annoying thing I have never experienced in my life.
FIFY.
I actually haven't driven one yet. Maybe I'll be surprised, in a few years the programming will be fantastic. What will make it "great" is to combine one with a turbo motor, like an Ecoboost. rpm rises with throttle setting, otherwise speed changes independent of rpm. I've always thought that, if I could not hear the engine, then I wouldn't care what the transmission was doing. May or may not be pleasant. Next time I'm in the market for a new car I'll have to drive one.
Originally Posted By: glock19
I agree, the auto vs manual superiority debate is too black and white among gear heads. I've owned traditional autos, CVTs, and manuals and I can see a use for all of them. Automatics make fantastic daily drivers/commuters because it's just a PITA to drive a manual in heavy traffic. Manuals make sports cars, weekend cruisers, and motorcycles a ton of fun.
I enjoyed driving my Jetta's manual, only a couple of times in heavy traffic was it an issue. Still, I've gotten used to my slushbox, and prefer it to a poorly set up manual, I think.
I've really been surprised by the 4AT in my Camry. The 6AT in my Tundra bugs me, but this 4AT seems pretty reasonable. Different programming I guess. I also don't flog this car very much, and as such, the automatic "fits" the car quite fine. If I were zipping around, cutting corners precisely, timing lane changes... then I'd have an issue.
Turbo, Ecoboost, supercharger, ONLY problem is CVT and big torque do not go together. That is why Europeans never jumped on that train due to the fact that diesels have huge torque. Ask Audi, they were experimenting with it, and failure rate in turbo charge engines is ridiculous.
Not to mention it kills any thrill to drive a car. I drove Nissan, Honda, Subaru with it and had a feeling someone should pay me to drive it.
True, current CVT's don't do torque.
I wonder if Toyota's "CVT" that they use in the Prius would work good enough. Hybrid setup. Gobs of torque off the line.
Then again, once you go that route, of a hybrid that is, the "big" need for a torquey gas motor goes away.
I wonder if Toyota's "CVT" that they use in the Prius would work good enough. Hybrid setup. Gobs of torque off the line.
Then again, once you go that route, of a hybrid that is, the "big" need for a torquey gas motor goes away.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I'm okay with CVTs as long as they can reliably run 200K.
I would have no problem buying a Honda or a Toyota with a CVT
We didn't know that are 15 CRV had a CVT when we bought it. I probably would have steered clear if I knew. I guess I just get to hope and pray!
Honda doesn't seem to have the problems that Nissan has. I'd drive a Honda CVT
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I'm okay with CVTs as long as they can reliably run 200K.
I would have no problem buying a Honda or a Toyota with a CVT
We didn't know that are 15 CRV had a CVT when we bought it. I probably would have steered clear if I knew. I guess I just get to hope and pray!
I haven't read that they blow up. Have you?
Nissan CVTs are quite unreliable still. Toyota, Subaru, Honda seem to have figured out how to make a reliable CVT.
The CVT in my moms 07 Altima has been flawless, and is showing no signs of weakness. 140k, and counting....
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I'm okay with CVTs as long as they can reliably run 200K.
I would have no problem buying a Honda or a Toyota with a CVT
We didn't know that are 15 CRV had a CVT when we bought it. I probably would have steered clear if I knew. I guess I just get to hope and pray!
Honda doesn't seem to have the problems that Nissan has. I'd drive a Honda CVT
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
Originally Posted By: Miller88
I'm okay with CVTs as long as they can reliably run 200K.
I would have no problem buying a Honda or a Toyota with a CVT
We didn't know that are 15 CRV had a CVT when we bought it. I probably would have steered clear if I knew. I guess I just get to hope and pray!
I haven't read that they blow up. Have you?
Nissan CVTs are quite unreliable still. Toyota, Subaru, Honda seem to have figured out how to make a reliable CVT.
The CVT in my moms 07 Altima has been flawless, and is showing no signs of weakness. 140k, and counting....
Manufacturers will gravitate to the least costly solution and that appears to be the CVT.
If everyone who says they'd prefer a stick went down to their local Honda or Toyota dealer and said they'd buy a Camry or an Accord if only a stick were available, then we might see a resurgence of three pedal car availability. People vote with their wallets and they've voted against manual transmissions, as much as I and many others here might dislike that fact.
CVTs are certainly cheaper to produce than bunch-o-speeds automatics and can offer both good acceleration and good fuel efficiency.
As CVTs are developed with plenty of beta testers driving them in their new cars they'll no doubt become quite durable and as seamless in use as a good conventional automatic.
Not there yet.
Let's not confuse what makers offer with what the uninformed would really want if they had any knowledge of what was possible versus what they're expected to buy.
If everyone who says they'd prefer a stick went down to their local Honda or Toyota dealer and said they'd buy a Camry or an Accord if only a stick were available, then we might see a resurgence of three pedal car availability. People vote with their wallets and they've voted against manual transmissions, as much as I and many others here might dislike that fact.
CVTs are certainly cheaper to produce than bunch-o-speeds automatics and can offer both good acceleration and good fuel efficiency.
As CVTs are developed with plenty of beta testers driving them in their new cars they'll no doubt become quite durable and as seamless in use as a good conventional automatic.
Not there yet.
Let's not confuse what makers offer with what the uninformed would really want if they had any knowledge of what was possible versus what they're expected to buy.
Originally Posted By: PhillyJoe
I have a '13 Rogue with a CVT. Most Nissans do now. I miss the shifting of a regular transmission. When I am accelerating on an on-ramp, I wave out the window to cars behind me that it's going to take me a while to get up to speed.
The CVT would be a deal-killer on my next car; which eliminates quite a few choices. My other car is a '16 Camry 4cyl auto. Not a rocket either but better at getting up to speed.
My wife's '14 Rogue is my first foray into the CVT world. I feel your pain. Funny how at times it attempts to "shift" like a normal automatic (in certain load conditions). Generally, it's not a big deal but when you need that passing power, the Rogue at least feels VERY under-powered. I think it is a combination of the weak 2.5L (not even DI) and the CVT.
I also purchased a 10yr/120K miles bumper-to-bumper warranty due to my concerns with how well the CVT might hold up.
One comment: Make sure you change (via the dealer so they have a record) the ATF at 30K mile intervals. Manual says 60K miles but dealer told me they are seeing many issues (requiring replacements - no rebuilds are allowed) if the AFT is not changed till 60K miles. Better safe than sorry and it's really not that expensive (~$130).
I have a '13 Rogue with a CVT. Most Nissans do now. I miss the shifting of a regular transmission. When I am accelerating on an on-ramp, I wave out the window to cars behind me that it's going to take me a while to get up to speed.
The CVT would be a deal-killer on my next car; which eliminates quite a few choices. My other car is a '16 Camry 4cyl auto. Not a rocket either but better at getting up to speed.
My wife's '14 Rogue is my first foray into the CVT world. I feel your pain. Funny how at times it attempts to "shift" like a normal automatic (in certain load conditions). Generally, it's not a big deal but when you need that passing power, the Rogue at least feels VERY under-powered. I think it is a combination of the weak 2.5L (not even DI) and the CVT.
I also purchased a 10yr/120K miles bumper-to-bumper warranty due to my concerns with how well the CVT might hold up.
One comment: Make sure you change (via the dealer so they have a record) the ATF at 30K mile intervals. Manual says 60K miles but dealer told me they are seeing many issues (requiring replacements - no rebuilds are allowed) if the AFT is not changed till 60K miles. Better safe than sorry and it's really not that expensive (~$130).
Originally Posted By: SeaJay
Knowing how to drive a stick shift vehicle, and wanting to do the additional work of shifting and working the clutch are two different things.
Most drivers, whether they know how to work a MT or not do not want to be bothered and prefer automatics. For sure, true in the US.
It's not about wanting to, it's about the enjoyment, the feeling of connection, engine braking, proactive gear selection etc etc - it's like arguing over religion or sports teams or trying to convince the sufferer of an irrational fear, it just won't have a good outcome.
Knowing how to drive a stick shift vehicle, and wanting to do the additional work of shifting and working the clutch are two different things.
Most drivers, whether they know how to work a MT or not do not want to be bothered and prefer automatics. For sure, true in the US.
It's not about wanting to, it's about the enjoyment, the feeling of connection, engine braking, proactive gear selection etc etc - it's like arguing over religion or sports teams or trying to convince the sufferer of an irrational fear, it just won't have a good outcome.
Originally Posted By: Donald
Europe is mostly manual.
Most of the world outside NA is mostly manual.
Europe is mostly manual.
Most of the world outside NA is mostly manual.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
5. Operating a clutch is a pain in stop and go traffic.
Not unless it's excessively heavy and 'bitey' - more control is generally better in traffic.
5. Operating a clutch is a pain in stop and go traffic.
Not unless it's excessively heavy and 'bitey' - more control is generally better in traffic.
Originally Posted By: Olas
Originally Posted By: Kestas
5. Operating a clutch is a pain in stop and go traffic.
Not unless it's excessively heavy and 'bitey' - more control is generally better in traffic.
You can often avoid touching the clutch pedal in traffic by selecting one of the lower gears and rolling in and out of the throttle to control speed while leaving a gap between you and the car ahead.
This works well until some jerk decides that he's drag racing you to the upcoming red light and dives in front of you, forcing you to brake and maybe declutch.
Originally Posted By: Kestas
5. Operating a clutch is a pain in stop and go traffic.
Not unless it's excessively heavy and 'bitey' - more control is generally better in traffic.
You can often avoid touching the clutch pedal in traffic by selecting one of the lower gears and rolling in and out of the throttle to control speed while leaving a gap between you and the car ahead.
This works well until some jerk decides that he's drag racing you to the upcoming red light and dives in front of you, forcing you to brake and maybe declutch.
Originally Posted By: supton
True, current CVT's don't do torque.
I wonder if Toyota's "CVT" that they use in the Prius would work good enough. Hybrid setup. Gobs of torque off the line.
Then again, once you go that route, of a hybrid that is, the "big" need for a torquey gas motor goes away.
The Prius uses a Power Split Device(PSD)that operates like a differential. It's torque produced has to do with the addition of the electric motor more than the design itself. It doesn't have the torque multiplication of a true CVT but being a planetary gear set, it is superior to the CVT and traditional automatic transmission in terms of wear or the lack of.
True, current CVT's don't do torque.
I wonder if Toyota's "CVT" that they use in the Prius would work good enough. Hybrid setup. Gobs of torque off the line.
Then again, once you go that route, of a hybrid that is, the "big" need for a torquey gas motor goes away.
The Prius uses a Power Split Device(PSD)that operates like a differential. It's torque produced has to do with the addition of the electric motor more than the design itself. It doesn't have the torque multiplication of a true CVT but being a planetary gear set, it is superior to the CVT and traditional automatic transmission in terms of wear or the lack of.
As a lifetime manual transmission driver, I found the CVT to be just another [censored] automatic transmission.
One question that no one seems to hit upon - how do the CVT manufacturers figure to increase their share of the market when it is not a good solution to the tightening mileage requirements?
Bill
One question that no one seems to hit upon - how do the CVT manufacturers figure to increase their share of the market when it is not a good solution to the tightening mileage requirements?
Bill
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