w126 1988 300sel 6cyl Motor Oil

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Just purchased a 1988 300sel from a 2nd owner and want to know what is the recommended oil for these engines. How is 20w-50 compared to 15w-40 mineral? I would not be able to tell you how many miles the car really has. My 300sel odometer reads 71,000 but might be 171,000 miles. The car was always garaged and never left outside. The exterior paint is 9.5 out of 10 and is a charcoal almost black in color. I will be sending my registration to the Irvine MB classic center to give me the translation of the cars data plate. The data plate identifies all the options that the car came with and gives you the exact names of the colors used both in the interior and exterior. A total of 4 small dents are located on both the driver and passenger doors. The interior has no cracks on the dash and no tears on the seats. The only wear that I notice is on the driver seat immediately adjacent to the door. No oil leaks, shifts really good, nice sound system. I had a paintless dent repair tech look at my car today and he will be removing the dents some time next week. Car has no AC but I will be taking care of that ASAP. It's a keeper. Please advise on the maintenance and like mentioned before, would like to use a good oil.
Currently also own a
1970 280sel that uses 20w-50, 54k miles probably not accurate mileage. 2nd Owner
1979 300sd that uses 15-40, 197,001 miles. 3rd Owner
2002 Chevy Silverado that uses 5w-30, 220,000 miles. Original owner
and my first car
91 Honda Civic hatchback Si 1.6L with 468,100 original miles that uses 5w-30. Original owner
 
Awesome! Please post pictures!

Where in CA are you? That is an important element to it...

See below: This is related to MB diesels, but stands true for the older MB gas engines too...

MBDiesel.jpg


MBOldDiesel.jpg



An older and newer version of the chart that is easier to see. The newer one is interesting, as it shows how he change in specs and standards broadens the range of specced oil.

In reality at temperature under load, were considerate of the HT/HS viscosity as a measure of protection. But to get that, we need to be aware of the basics.

The differences between different viscosity oils, conventional and syn, are large - even at the same labeled viscosity.

Let's start with the 'w' portion, like 0w- 5w- and 10w-

These correspond to the Low Temperature (°C) Cranking Viscosity, in units of maximum cP (centipoise), tested by the ASTM D5293 method. The specs are:

0w- => 6200 cP max at -35
5w- => 6600 cP max at -30
10w- => 7000 cP max at -25

And so on.

So, what do those mean? They are the definitions of the highest the viscosity that an oil can be at some test temperature. Some really good oils can meet more than one, for example schaeffer's 15w40 diesel oil actually can test out to be a 10w-40, due to its performance at -25C, similarly, Amsoil 'acd' qualifies as a straight SAE30 weight oil, but its performance at low temperatures also qualifies it to to be a 10w-30 as well. Viscosity/temperature curves are not linear, relating to the coiling/uncoiling of the viscosity index improvers (polymers spoken about earlier) as well as the molecules of the oil basestock itself.

Now, the higher number:
These get a little bit trickier. Two 30 weight oils can span a fairly large range, and still qualify as a 30wt. In general:
Xw-20 is 6.6-9.9 cSt at 100C
Xw-30 is 10-13 cSt at 100C
Xw-40 is 13-16.5 cSt at 100C

And so on. The ranges are not identical.

So, you can have a very thin 30 weight, like Mobil 1, which is only 10 cSt, or a very heavy 30 weight oil, like the made in germany castrol syntec, which is about 12.1 cSt.

Now, there are also ratings. API, ILSAC and ACEA. What is interesting is the newer viscosity temperature chart, which broadened the range for 10w-30, for example, if it met the CCMC G5 spec. Why? Because that was actually the precursor to the euro (ACEA) oil specs. What is interesting is that this spec was the precursor to the A3/B3 spec, which is for higher stress conditions. You can have an A1/B1 spec oil in any viscosity you like, or an A3/B3 oil in the exact same viscosity. The difference? Robustness. The A3/B3 (CCMC G5) will have a higher high Temp/high shear viscosity, which means that under severe temperature and load conditions it will retain robustness and full protection, while also being lower viscosity to provide superior flow, thermal removal characteristics and economy.

The reason why I note this is in response to the confusion and commentary that it is all about economy, as if protection of the engine was automatically compromised. It isn't. MB doesn't want you using some [censored] multigrade. That is true. But when the oil with correct robustness in terms of viscosity under stress is applied, it becomes a non issue.

40wt was specified 30 years ago (and 10w-40 was not allowed) because oils were far less robust and less spec controlled. As these ratings came forth to judge the duty and use characteristic more clearly, the opportunity to use alternate, superior fluids was expanded because it started to be more foolproof and a spec could draw the right product without issue. When MB expanded the 10w-30 temp range, the only thing that happened was that a high HT/HS performance fluid was able to be specced by invoking the G5 part. All of a sudden you could have a superior foil in use, with a lower viscosity at operatic temps because you knew the quality and metrics of the oil being used. It wasn't just someone dumping 10w-30 havoline in there for fun.

So with the enhanced specifications have come easily recognizable highly robust oils that can do the same or better than a straight weigh oil, while offering superior starting properties when "cold", I.e. Not operating temp.

So youre really looking at 15w-40 vs 20w-50... Personally, if the engine uses no oil and has no leaks, Id run delo or rotella 5w-40 syn in there. Id also consider M1 HM 10w-40 which is a stout A3 oil. Im not going to put every last demand on having a super thin oil at startup, but I like the concept. And, unless the conditions are VERY hot, I just dont see the need for the heavier viscosities when MB says that lighter oils with known robustness (e.g. ACEA A3) are suitable. Id be happy with a good 40wt unless you live in death valley.

Now, whether you want to go for a 5w-40, 10w-40 or a 15w-40 is another story...
 
I'm in Ventura CA but drive out to the San Fernando Valley on a daily basis. It gets hot in "The Valley". Not sure if the car burns oil but will be monitoring that. I like the idea of using 15w-40 but need to know if there are any MB owners out there that have used it before. Thats a lot of information provided and will need a couple of hours to read and probably will be reading over and over. As for 5w-40 synthetic, thats a big time switch for me, and not knowing how many true miles my car has, I would be in my mind GAMBLING. But thats just me because I'm so used to the 5w-30, 15w-40s, 20w-50's. I know that its just lack of knowledge and more of a "follow the leader" attitude.

I think I remember someone recommending 5w-40 for my MB 1970 280sel and mentioned something about ZINC that I didn't really understand. Educate me on why I should switch. I'm open to using any oil that will allow my engines to run long. My Honda has seen Shell, Chevron, Castrol and Valvoline and I pretty much use any of the mentioned oils when they are on sale. I will note, and just what I have observed, that my Honda burns less oil when I use Castrol or Valvoline. I use Wix Gold filters on my Silverado, Mann on my MB 300 SD and 280SEL and have used AC delco, Tech, Purolator, Bosch, Full and soon will be using Baldwin when I run out of the WIX filters. I have not yet chosen an oil filter for the 1988 300sel. Please advise
 
Baldwin is good, they make a nice filter for the OM617.95x, and likely do for the gassers also. Mann, Hengst and Mahle are all good...

If youre comfortable with a 15w-40, go with it. I dont think you can do wrong, and what is the worst case weather where you live, maybe 40F at startup? Look at the charts, 15w-40 is good down to a bit above 0F, so you have plenty of working room. Remember, per those charts, MB equates the use of a 40wt to a 50wt for high temperatures. The minimum temperature is where the difference comes in (flowability). Id prefer to go 15w-40, and know that Im getting top oils with the best latest chemistry, as add packs are as important as base oil and viscosity. The 20w-50 viscosity is fairly obsolete, and while your engine doesnt need anything fancy, youre getting a better oil with the 15w-40 from any of the majors.

If its a comfort thing, and/or a commonality thing, go get some 15w-40 from your favorite manufacturer, and have confidence that youre running a great oil for your engine. Your climate and situation is one that it makes total sense to use...

Now regarding Zinc, IF your engine has flat tappet cams, it would prefer a bit more zinc for protection. 40wt oils by spec are allowed to have a bit more, and remember that if you dont have flat tappet cams with high spring pressure, it likely will not even matter. If you do, 40wt HDEOs are already fairly stout, and if you need a bit more, you can dope with a bit of Redline break-in additive to get a bit more ZDDP, but Id do a calculation so you dont go too heavy on it, which doesnt help you.
 
Don't use the 20W50!
This engine runs better with a 10W40. The hidraulic lifters and chain tensioner are critical in this car, 20W50 is too thick, and mineral oils create excessive sludge for the lifters.

My father was a expert in this cars, working in the 80's for the brand.
 
Forget the antiquated 15W-40 and 20W-50 mineral oils for your '88 300SEL, it's not that old a car that it won't benefit from modern lubricants.
I'd run M1 0W-40 which can be had for as little as $22.49/5qt jug at WalMart. That's what's been back spec'd for my Porsche that's older than your MB.
 
Rotella mineral 15w-40 is a good starting point if you're comfortable with that. It has plenty of zinc and detergent.

If you find it consumes oil, try a high mileage 10w-40 before going to 20w-50. Valvoline Maxlife is highly regarded.

I would personally run Rotella T6 5w-40 in every vehicle you have listed for the sake of simplicity, but that's just me and I understand its out of your comfort zone.
 
How do I find out if my Mercedes Benz 1970 280 SEL 6cyl MFI(Mechanical Fuel Injection) or my 1988 300 SEL has flat tappet cams. I currently use 20w-50 on my MB 1970 280SEL(6cyl) but would not mind switching over to a better oil. I do not know which oil was being used on my 1988 300 SEL.

Are the 10w-40 oils mentioned and recommended SYNTHETICS? I can't catch up because some of these oils like T6 5w-40 are synthetic yet not everyone reading on this forum would know that unless you look it up. So is the 10w-40 recommendation a synthetic or just a regular oil?

I purchased my 1970 280 SEL 10 years ago and within 2 months the car overheated and I had to get the head rebuilt. I have only driven approximatley 7k miles on it since then and now I'm wondering if this a good opportunity to switch over to a 5w-40(synthetic) or a 10w-40 synthetic.
Guys, I know all of you have done your research and know which oils are synthetic, probably just based on the manufacture name, but could you please identify the oil as synthetics or not synthetic. It helps others catch up quicker when reading.

My worry is that using a synthetic on my 70 280sel and 88 300sel will start up new oil leaks.

I'm kind of liking the 10w-40 oil but not sure if its the synthetic or non synthetic that I should be looking at.

Advise
 
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I would be using a 0w40 or a 5w40 for this engine. A 15w40 is not light enough on startup to prevent additional wear. Mobil 1 0w40 would be my first recommendation seconded by Rotella T6 5w40.

20w50 would be completely out of the question in my mind as that is an antiquated lubricant.
 
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Congratulations on a great find!
Originally Posted By: Gito
My 300sel odometer reads 71,000 but might be 171,000 miles.
I don't believe this. It must have the seventh digit on the odometer, I mean it is not Vega or Pinto :)
 
Wow, beautiful car! I see you had a W116 as well - always wanted one, but have heard they are very prone to rust. We get more rain than you do, I think, so it is probably best that they stay out your way
smile.gif


Lots of recommendations for 0w- and 5w- oils. But remember that plenty of cars have lived extremely long lifes running on heavier oils, and you are in a climate that is best suited to it. I agree with them - Id go for something like a 10w-40 M1 HM (yes, synthetic), or 5w-40 HDEO (yes also synthetic), and have the realization that if a leak starts, it is because there was an issue that existed before, and the oil cleaned dirt/sludge and made the leak spot accessible to the oil. It is a good opportunity to find and repair issues on a beautiful older car.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Congratulations on a great find!
Originally Posted By: Gito
My 300sel odometer reads 71,000 but might be 171,000 miles.
I don't believe this. It must have the seventh digit on the odometer, I mean it is not Vega or Pinto :)


Very true, my w123 cars all have the ability to show hundreds of thousands, and I recall from the w126 cars Ive been in that they have that place as well.
 
My recommendations, in order of preference:

As you mentioned, Rotella T6 is synthetic, or more likely a Group III syn, which is highly refined mineral oil that's allowed to be called synthetic in the US. Use it with confidence.

The Valvoline Maxlife 10w-40 that I mentioned is a conventional oil with addatives to help with higher mileage engines. It has helped many of us with older engines that burn or leak some oil. It has some agents to maintain the integrity of older gaskets, which would be ideal for any of your vehicles.

Mobil 1 0w-40 is a synthetic that is also highly regarded here. It is well-liked by many people who use it in European and turbocharged vehicles.

Any of these will work in every vehicle you have mentioned. They all contain sufficient amounts of zinc for your applications and can be bought in jugs at Wal-Mart inexpensively.
 
Originally Posted By: Bandito440
My recommendations, in order of preference:

As you mentioned, Rotella T6 is synthetic, or more likely a Group III syn, which is highly refined mineral oil that's allowed to be called synthetic in the US. Use it with confidence.


No, it is a severely hydrotreated and hydrocracked slack wax. No different than how we get our PAO precursors from hydrocarbons coming off cat crackers in refineries.

But yes, use with confidence.

Originally Posted By: Bandito440
The Valvoline Maxlife 10w-40 that I mentioned is a conventional oil with addatives to help with higher mileage engines. It has helped many of us with older engines that burn or leak some oil. It has some agents to maintain the integrity of older gaskets, which would be ideal for any of your vehicles.


I do not believe that maxlife 10w-40 carries an ACEA A3 rating, which would equate to the CCGC G5 listed on the MB chart, and which ensures a proper HT/HS. If may be fine, but Id run M1 10w-40 HM instead, as it is ACEA A3.


Originally Posted By: Bandito440

Mobil 1 0w-40 is a synthetic that is also highly regarded here. It is well-liked by many people who use it in European and turbocharged vehicles.

Any of these will work in every vehicle you have mentioned. They all contain sufficient amounts of zinc for your applications and can be bought in jugs at Wal-Mart inexpensively.


0w-40 is a great oil, but given the climate and age, Im not sure it is needed. I dont see a huge benefit compared to the other oils.
 
My 1970 280SEL also has no tears or wear on any of the seats or upholstery . They are MB-tex. The dash has 2 cracks and I removed it 2 years ago and never put it back. The exterior is dent free, I mean there is not one door ding or dent on the car. The paint has deteriorated and I'm almost positive that someone at one time used AJax., lol. I am working on the suspension and once I take care of that I will look around for a good paint job. I just replaced the motor mounts and removed the original deteriorated mounts. It took me hours to align the new mounts...

So I'm thinking
M1 10w-40 HM (synthetic) or
Rotella T6 5w-40 (synthetic)

Where is the best store to purchase such oil?
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Wow, beautiful car! I see you had a W116 as well - always wanted one, but have heard they are very prone to rust. We get more rain than you do, I think, so it is probably best that they stay out your way
smile.gif



Thanks, and thanks for the info, really helpful.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Bandito440

0w-40 is a great oil, but given the climate and age, Im not sure it is needed. I dont see a huge benefit compared to the other oils.

Follow the manufacturers recommendations. 0nly 0W-XX and 5W-XX engine lubricants are now recommended for the most part and have been back spec'd a good 30 years if not longer for most vehicles. That's the case for all European cars including Porsche, BMW, Ferrari and I'm sure MB.

This has nothing to do with climate, but rather greatly improved viscometrics at all temperatures including extremely hot operating conditions.
There is no shortage of suitable 0W/5W-30/40 oils from which to choose, but in the States the best value that's widely available is M1 0W-40.
 
If you have a Walmart close by they might stock m1 0w40 and t6 on the shelf. If not try ordering it site to Store which is free in store pickup. The T6 is over kill but it's cheap enough as is so it represents a huge value.

Auto parts stores should carry what you need but price is an issue, usually I only shop at auto stores for specials which sell oil and filter combo together for a discount. Also good for clearance sales too, i just got some mobil 1 turbo diesel truck 5w40 for $2 a quart at autozone. That would probably work great too in your application. Check autozone for clearance if possible.
 
So let me get this straight, I will probably be using an oil that clearly is used for diesel engines. So T6 Shell 5w-40 synthetic can be used on my 1988 MB 300SEL, 1970 MB 280SEL and also have the choice of using also M1 10w-40 HM.

So 2002 Chevy Silverado 5.3L, 1979 MB 300sd can also use the T6 5w-40.
Can my Silverado, and Honda Civic use the M1 10w-40 HM? These 2 non mercedes vehicles are high mileage. One, Honda 91, having over 471,000 miles and the other, 2002 Silverado, having 200k plus miles.
 
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