VW Passat 1.8t 2001 10k PYB 5-30 spun bearing

[zanzabar]

@ Burt

That's exactly what I was thinking. Nothing about this particular report would have made me panic about impending failure, I would have said it was just run too long and needed an air filter and probably a few short OCIs with a good synthetic like we usually recommend for poor UOA reports.

Given the history of 1.8Ts and turbo engines in general we all know that run-of-the-mill conventional oils are not cabable of extended drains, and not optimal even in recommended OCIs, so yes we'd have all advised whomever posted a result like this to stop using PYB.

 

[JOD]

Zanzabar, I typically go out of my way to avoid any VW bashing..normally I go on the "don't say anything at all" tact, so my apologies. But comments about VW's sketchy reputation being solely the fault of negligent owners was just a bit too hard to ignore.

It is a bummer that your engine blew up, and no doubt failure to read the owner's manual in detail was a big part of it. That said, I do feel the API grading system contributed to it as well. It's just weird that two products would say "5W30" on the bottle and be so drastically different. I'm sure you're not the first, nor the last, to make this mistake.

 

[zanzabar]

Hehe, wasn't my car nor my mistake! I bought this as a project car to rebuild. Going on with the theory that it only needs head work. Fingers crossed!

 

[SLCraig]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
This is why I LAUGH at folks that constantly bash Volkswagen products...when IN REALITY most problems are caused by poor, or improper maintenance, and or abuse of the vehicle in general.



People bash them because they are known to be unreliable, not because of maintenance items... Electrical problems and typical VW issues have nothing to do with 10K OCI's..

 

[bigjl]

Originally Posted By: zanzabar
Will y'all (simple_gifts, JOD, bigjl, Clevy) please lay off the off-topic VW bashing. It's annoying and boring and a waste of time so back on topic PLEASE.

The driving was best possible scenario: highway long commute 40 miles each way in moderate climate. AT so it wasn't over-revved or run hard in any way.

Clearly yes, this is a case of operator error and not paying attention to the owners manual.


Not really off topic.

They are overrated in the UK market thanks to a strong brand image and market leading Adverts.

I haven't said they are rubbish just overrated.

Perhaps the shortcomings would be more obvious is all US States had similar annual checks such as an MOT as that is when the issues arise.

I do like the way they share parts though.

A common way to upgrade the 1.8 Scirocco was to fit the throttle body from and Audi with a larger engine.

I like things like that.

Just fed up with people thinking they are the automotive holy grail.

They are not the worst but not the best either.

I also get annoyed when people say similar things about Ford products, obviously specifically European models, so I can see where you are coming from.

 

[volk06]

Curious what Dnewtons thoughts on the insolubles that low with sludge.

 

[bigjl]

Originally Posted By: Burt
I wish he would have posted the UOA first and asked for comment w/o telling us first that the engine failed.

Isn't a key point whether the UOA gives any indication of pending engine failure? If someone got a sample like this, what would tip you off that the OCI is too long and you are on the verge of failure? The FE is high, but for 10k miles, by what? Factor of 2 when adjusted for mileage?



I think the reason the UOA looks not too bad is due to the nature of the failure, I have seen Honda 2.5 v6 engines from the eighties cams seize up in a similar way and snap the cambelt.

It seems this happens fairly quick and causes the cambelt to snap quickly so perhaps it stops the debris getting in the oil in large quantities.

Not sure if I am right, just chucking out a theory.

The Honda 2.5 and I believe 2.7 cams ran direct in the head with no bearings aswell.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: zanzabar
Hehe, wasn't my car nor my mistake! I bought this as a project car to rebuild. Going on with the theory that it only needs head work. Fingers crossed!


Ah, OK, whew...

Then, the previous owner was an idiot! Seriously though, the "5W30" comment still stands. I can see to the general public that doesn't waste their time reading a motor oil forum, it can be a bit confusing.

 

[Thax]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
This is why I LAUGH at folks that constantly bash Volkswagen products...when IN REALITY most problems are caused by poor, or improper maintenance, and or abuse of the vehicle in general.


+1 , Its not rocket science . If you want a VW/BMW/MB to last , then dont use a conventional oil for 10K oci. Use a oil that meets the manufacturers specs at the recommended drain intervals . Its funny how people blame the oil or the car for being terrible , when in fact they are the one who has messed up the car.

 

[tstep]

There is a strong possibility that the manual suggested that the desired oil was a 502 approved oil, but also stated that an API rated 5w-30 would be ok to use as well. At least that is what my son's 2001 Jetta 1.8t manual suggests. i forget if it reduces the oci from 10k to 5k though when using anything other than a 502 oil.

If I had not found this website a few years ago and learned a bit about oil and the various designations and specifications, I would not have understood the difference between 502 and 5w-30 and ran the 5w-30 since there are nearly no 502 choices on the shelf. And since 5w-30 would have been 5w-30, I may not have cared which one. It is very plausible the vehicle may have been serviced per manufacturer recommendation.

 

[fdcg27]

A shame that the owner thought that PYB was a good choice for 10K drains with this engine.
Might have been okay on shorter drains with PYB and likely would have been fine on longer ones had the correct oil been used.
This is not a VW problem, it's a matter of the owner using the wrong oil on too long an interval in an engine where this matters.

 

[JAG]

The oil pickup screen in my GTI 1.8T was partially clogged and I believe my engine was cleaner than how you describe this engine. So I suspect that this engine's screen is clogged, which caused caused the low oil pressure, which in turn caused too little oil flow to the camshaft. Good luck with the rebuild! I hope you share some pictures of the engine's internals.

BTW, mine is a 2003 and manual says change oil every 5000 miles using oil meeting VW 502. This was after VW became aware of the sludge problem.

 

[robertcope]

Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
This is why I LAUGH at folks that constantly bash Volkswagen products...when IN REALITY most problems are caused by poor, or improper maintenance, and or abuse of the vehicle in general.


This is my experience, as well. They don't want to use the right oils or perform the maintenance on time, but "they car sucks, man".

(Yes, I've owned more than my fair share of reliable VWs, as well as worked at a VW shop for a number of years!)

robert

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: robertcope
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
This is why I LAUGH at folks that constantly bash Volkswagen products...when IN REALITY most problems are caused by poor, or improper maintenance, and or abuse of the vehicle in general.


This is my experience, as well. They don't want to use the right oils or perform the maintenance on time, but "they car sucks, man".

(Yes, I've owned more than my fair share of reliable VWs, as well as worked at a VW shop for a number of years!)

robert


True,
I don't know why folks refuse to use the web site oil guides of the major engine oil companies (Castrol, Mobil, Shell and Liqui Moly as regards what the Germans define as major brands), they will list the best oils and give a max OCI in most cases. Also if a low pressure oil warning light flickers when hot, it's a real bad sign and often means the sump and oil pump screen must be cleaned and if you ignore it and drive on the engine might be toast.
It's unlikely this engine is worth repairing because when one bearing fails from oil service trouble, the others have often been damaged already. It would cost too much to figure out what has or has not been damaged.
Surprise cases of sludge do happen within normal OCI limits using the best oil and filter, BUT they are often caused by head gasket faults and anti freeze contamination of the oil. I've seen a lot of failed engines and oddly enough I have never seen a main block failure that did not have an obvious reason in terms of poor maintenance.
VW don't make very tough blocks, so you must get the oil service right for them to last a long time and they are known to be very fussy about which oil and filter you use.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: sciphi
The previous owner probably followed VWoA's recommended interval. Problem was, he didn't use the right oil and toasted the engine.


With GC, sure. PYB 5w-30 isn't the most appropriate choice for this case at all.

 

[friendly_jacek]

So much for this UOA. Or did the owner change oil AFTER the problem? Too bad no TBN.

 

[edhackett]

UOA only shows wear that is generated largely by "normal" wear, which generate particles less than 5 microns. Abnormal wear or catastrophic failure doesn't always show in a standard UOA.

You could grind up an entire engine into particles >5 microns and dump that in the oil pan. A UOA would come back looking just fine using ICP analysis techniques.

Ed

 

[tig1]

I have two friends that have VW diesels of the age and both with well over 200K. One uses M1 TDT 5-40 the other Penz T6. Both do 10K OCIs and have had no problems with the engines.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: edhackett
UOA only shows wear that is generated largely by "normal" wear, which generate particles less than 5 microns. Abnormal wear or catastrophic failure doesn't always show in a standard UOA.

You could grind up an entire engine into particles >5 microns and dump that in the oil pan. A UOA would come back looking just fine using ICP analysis techniques.

Ed


+1

Good example of how a UOA didn't pick this up.

 

[friendly_jacek]

It's not just that. No indication of thickening out of grade or similar evidence that oil was pushed too hard.

Now, looking for wear particles, I bet they are all in the filter. Magnetic oil drain would probably show a "Christmas tree" if used.