Jeff, thanks for your comments. Poor VW/Audi do take a lot of grief, warranted or otherwise. My 1991 Audi 200 Turbo still had mechanical fuel injection. Then, they bring DI out ahead of most other players. If that hybrid DI/conventional injection system works, that might be the answer for a lot of applications.
VW Oil Help, Again
- Thread starter Jeffs2006EvoIX
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Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I think you should get Toyota Camry!
Oh man you had to go there! Ha ha
Not me. Maybe an STi next time or a new Evo 11
Jeff
Yeah I did. If you want something that will work for sure, get Japanese car. They wait until Germans invent and try, then they copy it, and then they say: we are most reliable!
Originally Posted By: edyvw
I think you should get Toyota Camry!
Oh man you had to go there! Ha ha
Not me. Maybe an STi next time or a new Evo 11
Jeff
Yeah I did. If you want something that will work for sure, get Japanese car. They wait until Germans invent and try, then they copy it, and then they say: we are most reliable!
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I am concerned about TBN though in the 504 oils. I mean the PU 5w40 TBN dropped to 3 after 3100 miles in this engine. Blackstone recommended 4k oci's on the PU based on my uoa. So how will an oil that begins at 6-8 tbn hold up?
On the mk6 forums people say the 504 was intended for EU market since they have a different quality of gas than we do. I'm hoping the gas here in California will work well with the 504 oil and that the ethanol or Sulphur content won't break the oil down too quick.
Thoughts on this?
Jeff
On the mk6 forums people say the 504 was intended for EU market since they have a different quality of gas than we do. I'm hoping the gas here in California will work well with the 504 oil and that the ethanol or Sulphur content won't break the oil down too quick.
Thoughts on this?
Jeff
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I am concerned about TBN though in the 504 oils. I mean the PU 5w40 TBN dropped to 3 after 3100 miles in this engine. Blackstone recommended 4k oci's on the PU based on my uoa. So how will an oil that begins at 6-8 tbn hold up?
The real issue is TBN retention. It may have dropped to 3 after 3100 miles, but it may hang in that neighbourhood for an extended period of time. Unfortunately, because we can't get actual Euro gas here, we'd have to play it by ear as far as OCI goes. Try the 4,000 mile OCI and retest with TBN. I bet it'll go further yet, but the only way to know is to test.
I am concerned about TBN though in the 504 oils. I mean the PU 5w40 TBN dropped to 3 after 3100 miles in this engine. Blackstone recommended 4k oci's on the PU based on my uoa. So how will an oil that begins at 6-8 tbn hold up?
The real issue is TBN retention. It may have dropped to 3 after 3100 miles, but it may hang in that neighbourhood for an extended period of time. Unfortunately, because we can't get actual Euro gas here, we'd have to play it by ear as far as OCI goes. Try the 4,000 mile OCI and retest with TBN. I bet it'll go further yet, but the only way to know is to test.
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Was planning on doing that but was going to switch to the low saps M1 5w30 ESP next oil change. I'm currently running M1 0w40.
Jeff
Jeff
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
No my Evo didn't have near 1000hp but one thing is the Evo did everything "very well" I loved the evo for it being so well rounded. My Evo was making more hp per liter though then those 500+ hp cars. On E85 I was running 400whp but on 91 pump was 340whp while getting 25 hwy 19 cty that's just amazing to me.
The Evo had to go. I was getting to wrecklesd with it. I do miss it though.
Jeff
Ahhh, OK, well that's not that bad then. Similar power output to my M5 (on 91 pump). I don't track city MPG, but I get ~28 highway, which isn't bad for a good sized sedan. It does everything well too, which is why I'm incredibly fond of it. And the flat torque curve makes it feel faster than it actually is.
Have you test driven an M3? You might find it a better match for you than the GTI......... IMHO. Just based on what you've said about the EVO.
No my Evo didn't have near 1000hp but one thing is the Evo did everything "very well" I loved the evo for it being so well rounded. My Evo was making more hp per liter though then those 500+ hp cars. On E85 I was running 400whp but on 91 pump was 340whp while getting 25 hwy 19 cty that's just amazing to me.
The Evo had to go. I was getting to wrecklesd with it. I do miss it though.
Jeff
Ahhh, OK, well that's not that bad then. Similar power output to my M5 (on 91 pump). I don't track city MPG, but I get ~28 highway, which isn't bad for a good sized sedan. It does everything well too, which is why I'm incredibly fond of it. And the flat torque curve makes it feel faster than it actually is.
Have you test driven an M3? You might find it a better match for you than the GTI......... IMHO. Just based on what you've said about the EVO.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
but I get ~28 highway
LOL
but I get ~28 highway
LOL
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
but I get ~28 highway
LOL
It is possible, downhill, with 11% grade lol
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
but I get ~28 highway
LOL
It is possible, downhill, with 11% grade lol
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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
No my Evo didn't have near 1000hp but one thing is the Evo did everything "very well" I loved the evo for it being so well rounded. My Evo was making more hp per liter though then those 500+ hp cars. On E85 I was running 400whp but on 91 pump was 340whp while getting 25 hwy 19 cty that's just amazing to me.
The Evo had to go. I was getting to wrecklesd with it. I do miss it though.
Jeff
Ahhh, OK, well that's not that bad then. Similar power output to my M5 (on 91 pump). I don't track city MPG, but I get ~28 highway, which isn't bad for a good sized sedan. It does everything well too, which is why I'm incredibly fond of it. And the flat torque curve makes it feel faster than it actually is.
Have you test driven an M3? You might find it a better match for you than the GTI......... IMHO. Just based on what you've said about the EVO.
I drove a 2006 M3 coupe with the auto trans. Was my sisters boy friends car. I wasn't impressed with that particular car and how he had it set up
I also drove my friends 335 4dr 6 spd tuned to about 450whp now that was more my style he he
Jeff
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
No my Evo didn't have near 1000hp but one thing is the Evo did everything "very well" I loved the evo for it being so well rounded. My Evo was making more hp per liter though then those 500+ hp cars. On E85 I was running 400whp but on 91 pump was 340whp while getting 25 hwy 19 cty that's just amazing to me.
The Evo had to go. I was getting to wrecklesd with it. I do miss it though.
Jeff
Ahhh, OK, well that's not that bad then. Similar power output to my M5 (on 91 pump). I don't track city MPG, but I get ~28 highway, which isn't bad for a good sized sedan. It does everything well too, which is why I'm incredibly fond of it. And the flat torque curve makes it feel faster than it actually is.
Have you test driven an M3? You might find it a better match for you than the GTI......... IMHO. Just based on what you've said about the EVO.
I drove a 2006 M3 coupe with the auto trans. Was my sisters boy friends car. I wasn't impressed with that particular car and how he had it set up
I also drove my friends 335 4dr 6 spd tuned to about 450whp now that was more my style he he
Jeff
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I have a feeling when I go to the dealer for my 10k freebie service they are going to fight with me over the 504 oil. The dealer usually puts in 5w40 and that would be 502. The 504 oil costs more so they may give me some lip over it assuming they even have it.
Our gas is what I'm worried about. The 504 having a lower TBN mixed with our higher sulfur gas may mean more frequent oil changes. That would be ok with me if it will help lower the risk of carbon build up in the intake valves.
To my understanding the easiest 504 oil to obtain here in the states would be M1 5w30 ESP? Seems all the others would be kinda a special order type of thing.
This car has tried a few oils already. Oem factory fill whatever that was Castrol something. .. then PU 5w40 currently M1 0w40 then will go to M1 5w30 ESP most likely in the near future unless the dealer hasa 504 oil there. And even if they do how do I know I will really be getting that over the 502 oil they usually put in the GTI. May just skip them and do it myself.
I will think on it.
Jeff
Our gas is what I'm worried about. The 504 having a lower TBN mixed with our higher sulfur gas may mean more frequent oil changes. That would be ok with me if it will help lower the risk of carbon build up in the intake valves.
To my understanding the easiest 504 oil to obtain here in the states would be M1 5w30 ESP? Seems all the others would be kinda a special order type of thing.
This car has tried a few oils already. Oem factory fill whatever that was Castrol something. .. then PU 5w40 currently M1 0w40 then will go to M1 5w30 ESP most likely in the near future unless the dealer hasa 504 oil there. And even if they do how do I know I will really be getting that over the 502 oil they usually put in the GTI. May just skip them and do it myself.
I will think on it.
Jeff
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I have a feeling when I go to the dealer for my 10k freebie service they are going to fight with me over the 504 oil. The dealer usually puts in 5w40 and that would be 502. The 504 oil costs more so they may give me some lip over it assuming they even have it.
Our gas is what I'm worried about. The 504 having a lower TBN mixed with our higher sulfur gas may mean more frequent oil changes. That would be ok with me if it will help lower the risk of carbon build up in the intake valves.
To my understanding the easiest 504 oil to obtain here in the states would be M1 5w30 ESP? Seems all the others would be kinda a special order type of thing.
This car has tried a few oils already. Oem factory fill whatever that was Castrol something. .. then PU 5w40 currently M1 0w40 then will go to M1 5w30 ESP most likely in the near future unless the dealer hasa 504 oil there. And even if they do how do I know I will really be getting that over the 502 oil they usually put in the GTI. May just skip them and do it myself.
I will think on it.
Jeff
Dealer has to have 504/507 bcs that is oil required for CR TDI engines.
I have a feeling when I go to the dealer for my 10k freebie service they are going to fight with me over the 504 oil. The dealer usually puts in 5w40 and that would be 502. The 504 oil costs more so they may give me some lip over it assuming they even have it.
Our gas is what I'm worried about. The 504 having a lower TBN mixed with our higher sulfur gas may mean more frequent oil changes. That would be ok with me if it will help lower the risk of carbon build up in the intake valves.
To my understanding the easiest 504 oil to obtain here in the states would be M1 5w30 ESP? Seems all the others would be kinda a special order type of thing.
This car has tried a few oils already. Oem factory fill whatever that was Castrol something. .. then PU 5w40 currently M1 0w40 then will go to M1 5w30 ESP most likely in the near future unless the dealer hasa 504 oil there. And even if they do how do I know I will really be getting that over the 502 oil they usually put in the GTI. May just skip them and do it myself.
I will think on it.
Jeff
Dealer has to have 504/507 bcs that is oil required for CR TDI engines.
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Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I am concerned about TBN though in the 504 oils. I mean the PU 5w40 TBN dropped to 3 after 3100 miles in this engine. Blackstone recommended 4k oci's on the PU based on my uoa. So how will an oil that begins at 6-8 tbn hold up?
The real issue is TBN retention. It may have dropped to 3 after 3100 miles, but it may hang in that neighbourhood for an extended period of time. Unfortunately, because we can't get actual Euro gas here, we'd have to play it by ear as far as OCI goes. Try the 4,000 mile OCI and retest with TBN. I bet it'll go further yet, but the only way to know is to test.
I'm confused howa TBN can "stablize" because sulfur from the gas and water from the air will continue to make sulfuric acid and there by continuing lowering the TBN. Unless the fuel changes how can it stabilize?
Jeff
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I am concerned about TBN though in the 504 oils. I mean the PU 5w40 TBN dropped to 3 after 3100 miles in this engine. Blackstone recommended 4k oci's on the PU based on my uoa. So how will an oil that begins at 6-8 tbn hold up?
The real issue is TBN retention. It may have dropped to 3 after 3100 miles, but it may hang in that neighbourhood for an extended period of time. Unfortunately, because we can't get actual Euro gas here, we'd have to play it by ear as far as OCI goes. Try the 4,000 mile OCI and retest with TBN. I bet it'll go further yet, but the only way to know is to test.
I'm confused howa TBN can "stablize" because sulfur from the gas and water from the air will continue to make sulfuric acid and there by continuing lowering the TBN. Unless the fuel changes how can it stabilize?
Jeff
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Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I have a feeling when I go to the dealer for my 10k freebie service they are going to fight with me over the 504 oil. The dealer usually puts in 5w40 and that would be 502. The 504 oil costs more so they may give me some lip over it assuming they even have it.
Our gas is what I'm worried about. The 504 having a lower TBN mixed with our higher sulfur gas may mean more frequent oil changes. That would be ok with me if it will help lower the risk of carbon build up in the intake valves.
To my understanding the easiest 504 oil to obtain here in the states would be M1 5w30 ESP? Seems all the others would be kinda a special order type of thing.
This car has tried a few oils already. Oem factory fill whatever that was Castrol something. .. then PU 5w40 currently M1 0w40 then will go to M1 5w30 ESP most likely in the near future unless the dealer hasa 504 oil there. And even if they do how do I know I will really be getting that over the 502 oil they usually put in the GTI. May just skip them and do it myself.
I will think on it.
Jeff
Dealer has to have 504/507 bcs that is oil required for CR TDI engines.
Ok so just requesting the 504 should be it. Since they normally don't put in 504 on the GTI how will I know if they do it? You know how dealers are.
Jeff
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
I have a feeling when I go to the dealer for my 10k freebie service they are going to fight with me over the 504 oil. The dealer usually puts in 5w40 and that would be 502. The 504 oil costs more so they may give me some lip over it assuming they even have it.
Our gas is what I'm worried about. The 504 having a lower TBN mixed with our higher sulfur gas may mean more frequent oil changes. That would be ok with me if it will help lower the risk of carbon build up in the intake valves.
To my understanding the easiest 504 oil to obtain here in the states would be M1 5w30 ESP? Seems all the others would be kinda a special order type of thing.
This car has tried a few oils already. Oem factory fill whatever that was Castrol something. .. then PU 5w40 currently M1 0w40 then will go to M1 5w30 ESP most likely in the near future unless the dealer hasa 504 oil there. And even if they do how do I know I will really be getting that over the 502 oil they usually put in the GTI. May just skip them and do it myself.
I will think on it.
Jeff
Dealer has to have 504/507 bcs that is oil required for CR TDI engines.
Ok so just requesting the 504 should be it. Since they normally don't put in 504 on the GTI how will I know if they do it? You know how dealers are.
Jeff
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No intake valve problems on your VDubs running the GC? That's 502 so just curious.
Jeff
Jeff
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
No intake valve problems on your VDubs running the GC? That's 502 so just curious.
Jeff
I use GC all the time last 30K. Now it has 58K, no issues.
What I can tell you is:
1. If i am doing several K in the mostly urban driving, the rpms in the morning during cold start are rough, and there is some oscilation.
If I run car hard, very hard, that will dissapear for some time.
Had one period where I did mostly highway driving, and no rough idle, no oscilation in rpms, everything was OK!
Now, I at least twice a month, go somewhere where I can push car to the limit for some time, and no issues with rpm oscilation in the morning etc.
2. GC i low volitaile oil compare to Castrol 5W40. It is MB 229.5 approved, which is very important in this case.
Personally, if you want to change oil every 5k, and want 504/507 oil, I think best way to go is PU 5W30, bcs it is heavy 30 weight (12cst) and HTHS is very high 3.68 (sam as old PU 5W40 SM).
No intake valve problems on your VDubs running the GC? That's 502 so just curious.
Jeff
I use GC all the time last 30K. Now it has 58K, no issues.
What I can tell you is:
1. If i am doing several K in the mostly urban driving, the rpms in the morning during cold start are rough, and there is some oscilation.
If I run car hard, very hard, that will dissapear for some time.
Had one period where I did mostly highway driving, and no rough idle, no oscilation in rpms, everything was OK!
Now, I at least twice a month, go somewhere where I can push car to the limit for some time, and no issues with rpm oscilation in the morning etc.
2. GC i low volitaile oil compare to Castrol 5W40. It is MB 229.5 approved, which is very important in this case.
Personally, if you want to change oil every 5k, and want 504/507 oil, I think best way to go is PU 5W30, bcs it is heavy 30 weight (12cst) and HTHS is very high 3.68 (sam as old PU 5W40 SM).
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The 30w euro PU is 3.68 hths?? The M1 5w30 ESP is 3.58 I believe. Would it make that much of a difference? I ask because I would have to special order the PU while I can get the M1 ESP over the counter at pep boys.
Jeff
Jeff
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
The 30w euro PU is 3.68 hths?? The M1 5w30 ESP is 3.58 I believe. Would it make that much of a difference? I ask because I would have to special order the PU while I can get the M1 ESP over the counter at pep boys.
Jeff
Well depends which one is less volitaile. Both are Group III oils, so they will not be stable like GC (NOACK is 11 with PU 5W30, Castorl is I believe hiding that). So yes, I would go with PU 5W30 which is actually Shell Helix. Now, I drive CR engine in Europe at my home, and most of the VW dealers are using either Castrol or Shell. But, I would say Shell is more predominant in Central Europe among dealers.
I mean, you will not make mistake with M1 too. It is oil designe for European application, high speeds, high rpms, high temperature changes (from Spain to Sweden).
If you wanna try 504/507, I think if you go with either Castrol/M1/PU you will be fine, just change it at 5k!
Also, you are in CA, and CA gas is much better then in other 49 states, meaning less sulfur.
The 30w euro PU is 3.68 hths?? The M1 5w30 ESP is 3.58 I believe. Would it make that much of a difference? I ask because I would have to special order the PU while I can get the M1 ESP over the counter at pep boys.
Jeff
Well depends which one is less volitaile. Both are Group III oils, so they will not be stable like GC (NOACK is 11 with PU 5W30, Castorl is I believe hiding that). So yes, I would go with PU 5W30 which is actually Shell Helix. Now, I drive CR engine in Europe at my home, and most of the VW dealers are using either Castrol or Shell. But, I would say Shell is more predominant in Central Europe among dealers.
I mean, you will not make mistake with M1 too. It is oil designe for European application, high speeds, high rpms, high temperature changes (from Spain to Sweden).
If you wanna try 504/507, I think if you go with either Castrol/M1/PU you will be fine, just change it at 5k!
Also, you are in CA, and CA gas is much better then in other 49 states, meaning less sulfur.
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So do you guys feel using the 504 oil is a good idea? Or just stick with the 502? My whole thing is trying to keep those pesky intake valves as clean as possible.
If this may help would be worth trying? Or Not?
Jeff
If this may help would be worth trying? Or Not?
Jeff
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
So do you guys feel using the 504 oil is a good idea? Or just stick with the 502? My whole thing is trying to keep those pesky intake valves as clean as possible.
If this may help would be worth trying? Or Not?
Jeff
You will not find an answer unless you try!
But do not try once, it is a gamble. You need to stick with it, and then, tell us after 50-100k how did it.
I am sticking to GC!
Yous tick to 504/507 and let's meet in 2-3 years and discuss what happened!
So do you guys feel using the 504 oil is a good idea? Or just stick with the 502? My whole thing is trying to keep those pesky intake valves as clean as possible.
If this may help would be worth trying? Or Not?
Jeff
You will not find an answer unless you try!
But do not try once, it is a gamble. You need to stick with it, and then, tell us after 50-100k how did it.
I am sticking to GC!
Yous tick to 504/507 and let's meet in 2-3 years and discuss what happened!
Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
So do you guys feel using the 504 oil is a good idea? Or just stick with the 502? My whole thing is trying to keep those pesky intake valves as clean as possible.
If this may help would be worth trying? Or Not?
Jeff
I concur that you probably won't find a definitive answer with just one interval. And when you do a UOA, find a lab that will give you oxidation, nitration, and sulfation reads along with an ACCURATE fuel dilution. Blackstone just doesn't cut it IMHO when it comes to really digging deep to find indications of deposits, nitration read is important here. Also, they don't give enough dilution info for me which is critical for a F/I DI application.
So do you guys feel using the 504 oil is a good idea? Or just stick with the 502? My whole thing is trying to keep those pesky intake valves as clean as possible.
If this may help would be worth trying? Or Not?
Jeff
I concur that you probably won't find a definitive answer with just one interval. And when you do a UOA, find a lab that will give you oxidation, nitration, and sulfation reads along with an ACCURATE fuel dilution. Blackstone just doesn't cut it IMHO when it comes to really digging deep to find indications of deposits, nitration read is important here. Also, they don't give enough dilution info for me which is critical for a F/I DI application.
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