Vortec torque curves?

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy

OTOH modern half tons can really work. Other than the lack of leaf springs they can carry a ton when optioned correctly, and have a lot of brake and power. More so than a 20 year old one ton in many cases.

The difference is GVRW and components. Yes new half tons have the power but go look at a 20 year old 1 ton's radiator, fans, aux transmission cooler, better transmission, bigger rearend, better frame. My old 89 1 ton was not fast but, it would out live a modern half ton towing often because it just had better/beefier components.

 

[hattaresguy]

Of course but my point is the gap is smaller compared to a half ton of the era, or a modern 1 ton.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike
The 4.8, 5.3, 6.0 are not truely Vortec motors. That is to say they are not Vortec heads. They are LSX based. The first LSX based motor was the LS1. Everything stems from that.
The term Vortec carried over because it was/is good marketing.

They make very good power over 3000 RPM and my Truck will tow up the 7000 to 9000 foot passes at 4000 RPM all day long going 60 mph.

I just normally let my 6.0/4L80E/4.10 settle out around 50 and take it nice and easy. A 4.8 truck is going to leave you with a white knukle experience and ruin the trip.


We pull my buddys boat which weighs about what your trailer does with his modern 3/4 ton and it cranks up hill at 70 without much trouble.

Diesel is where its at, doesn't matter how high you are with a turbo.

 

[ls1mike]

Right, but the extra intial cash was not enough for me to spend on a truck the goes to the dump, Lowes and Camping. It may see 2000 to 3000 miles a year. My truck will go 70 also. ST tires (trailer tires) are rated from 60 to 65 miles an hour. How fast do you really need to tow a trailer that is 35.5 feet from tounge to bumper that is like driving a billoard into the wind. A lot different than a boat.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike


Skip the 4.8. Get at least 5.3. I have had 3 different trucks and two different trailers. In my 10 years of RVing I have never ever heard anyone say. "Man, I have too much truck"


No offense to anyone here but the RV board is where you should ask this question. I am not sure how many people here are lugging around trailers over 5000 lbs. GVRW and Payload are going to be LOW on a 4.8 truck.


The difference between the 4.8 and 5.3 is GVRW 3,000lbs if both have the max towing package for the respective engine. This is due to the 6 speed transmission is not offered on the 4.8. But the payload is about 30lbs higher on the 4.8?

The important thing to factor if you want to get the 5.3 get one with 3.42 gears if you get one with 3.08 gears you add almost no capability over the 4.8 with 3.73 gears.

So in short if you want to tow anything over 7000lbs with a GM 1/2 ton truck I recommend the 6.2 engine.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike

OTOH modern half tons can really work. Other than the lack of leaf springs they can carry a ton when optioned correctly, and have a lot of brake and power. More so than a 20 year old one ton in many cases.

The difference is GVRW and components. Yes new half tons have the power but go look at a 20 year old 1 ton's radiator, fans, aux transmission cooler, better transmission, bigger rearend, better frame. My old 89 1 ton was not fast but, it would out live a modern half ton towing oft

I have learned in MANY years of operating vehicles for money that you do not want a vehicle that is operated at or near its maximum rated payload as it will break early and often.

In addition, one of my competitors was sued out of existence due to having a trailer that was beyond the rated capacity of his truck! Don't forget your liability here.

 

[supton]

'tis funny now, looking at ratings. I think I'll start saving my pennies for this truck. Maybe next year I can get it (wife really doesn't want a loan this year, despite my protestations). So I'm looking at (well-used) pop-ups for the meantime. 1,500lb is hit real fast, which is the limit on my VW. [Camry? try 1,000lb!]

I still haven't figured out what I could back into my driveway--that is likely the limiting factor in trailer size, moreso than weight, believe it or not. My back driveway is the typical one-car wide affair, and the road to that driveway is the typical one-lane wide dirt road, which dips predictably at the end of my driveway--which is almost 90 degrees to the road.

 

[wander2039]

Instead of messing with a truck and trailer just get a Class A or C. Unless you really need a truck. We really don't have a need for a truck part of our reasoning on going with most likely a 25ft Class A if we can find one. Get a tow dolly and one of your current cars can be the run-about if you're setting for a extended period of time.

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Instead of messing with a truck and trailer just get a Class A or C. Unless you really need a truck. We really don't have a need for a truck part of our reasoning on going with most likely a 25ft Class A if we can find one. Get a tow dolly and one of your current cars can be the run-about if you're setting for a extended period of time.


I did that for 5 years in a 24 foot Class A with a 454, and while I think that works well if you are full time RVing. It becomes a pain if it is just for weekends. If you have kids or want to go see anything you will need to bring your car.

It is an extra motor to maintain and all you can do with it is camp. The truck can be use for a lot of things.

Towing the car and putting it on the dolly is worse then just hooking up the TT.

Plus sitting is the worst thing for an engine. At least with a truck, well I know with mine, I will drive it once every week to couple of weeks. I never just fired up the Motorhome to take it into work. I only ran if I was going camping.

Insurance for my motorhome was 40 bucks more a month then full coverage on my new trailer.

I have enjoyed the trailer much more than the Motorhome. Plus you can get a lot more trailer for your money. My old setup was a 1989 GMC 1 ton that I paid 3400 bucks for. It towed a a 1995 Fleetwood Prowler 25 foot fifth wheel that I paid 3500 bucks for with the hitch. I was in that setup for under 9 grand(I put a better radiator and transmission cooler in the truck and gasketed the exhaust manifolds) and used it for 5 years including one 2300 mile round trip to Yellowstone.

The deals are out there you just have to know what you want.
Both of mine were very clean and easy to maintain.
Here they are on the Trip to Yellow after coming down Lockout Pass into St. Regis Mt.

By ls1mike at 2012-05-27

Granted my new setup cost a bit more. 12,000 for the Truck and 28,000 for the trailer, but all of our cars are paid for. We just wanted something new after 10 years in used stuff. Guess we wanted to make sure we like camping. We do!

There are plenty of nice trailers out there for under 5,000.
Just watch for wet spots and dry rot in the roof and floors. Take your time.
Ask about brakes and tires. How old are they? When were the wheel bearings done? Make sure you can get dry and loaded weights. Climb up on the room make sure there are no wierd(cracked or flaking) spots and it has been maintained. Have them operate everything! You want to make sure the A/C, Fridge (they are pricey) and Hot water tank work. If they won't let you do all of that, chances are their is something wrong. I sold my 5th wheel for 1800 bucks, it sold in a day. I had it all setup so the guy could see that everything worked. I showed him the one roof repair and was honest. Most trailers my trailer's vintage were going for about 3000. I just wanted it to go to a good home. There are others out there just like me. We just like RVing and want to see others enjoy it also.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: apwillard1986
Chevrolet previously posted them on the consumer website but they don't any longer... at least, not that I can find. I got them from our GM Dealer Reference site... you have to have a login so a link would be useless. Wish I could help. I also wish this type of info was still available to consumers easily.

It is funny; sometimes the consumer site has more info than the dealer site and sometimes it is reversed.



You can still get the info..Here you go:

http://www.gmpowertrain.com/VehicleEngines/PowertrainProducts.aspx

 

[wander2039]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Instead of messing with a truck and trailer just get a Class A or C. Unless you really need a truck. We really don't have a need for a truck part of our reasoning on going with most likely a 25ft Class A if we can find one. Get a tow dolly and one of your current cars can be the run-about if you're setting for a extended period of time.


I did that for 5 years in a 24 foot Class A with a 454, and while I think that works well if you are full time RVing. It becomes a pain if it is just for weekends. If you have kids or want to go see anything you will need to bring your car.

It is an extra motor to maintain and all you can do with it is camp. The truck can be use for a lot of things.

Towing the car and putting it on the dolly is worse then just hooking up the TT.

Plus sitting is the worst thing for an engine. At least with a truck, well I know with mine, I will drive it once every week to couple of weeks. I never just fired up the Motorhome to take it into work. I only ran if I was going camping.

Insurance for my motorhome was 40 bucks more a month then full coverage on my new trailer.


The only thing you can't do with a dolly is back it up. Other than that no difference. I'd much rather pull a car than trailer. Trailers if not loaded right and with the correct equipment and you'll be on your side... tow dolly hook it up pull the car on and strap it down and you're good to go. If you're worried about a motorhome setting too long you'll have the same issue's with trailer's. If you don't use a trailer at least once a year good luck on the frig, water heater and sometimes the ac. My grandparents RV sets for 4-5 months and they never had a issue. My uncle his set for six months straight sometimes are year without issues. Most know very little about RVing and vehicle storage in general.. that's the problem.

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Instead of messing with a truck and trailer just get a Class A or C. Unless you really need a truck. We really don't have a need for a truck part of our reasoning on going with most likely a 25ft Class A if we can find one. Get a tow dolly and one of your current cars can be the run-about if you're setting for a extended period of time.


I did that for 5 years in a 24 foot Class A with a 454, and while I think that works well if you are full time RVing. It becomes a pain if it is just for weekends. If you have kids or want to go see anything you will need to bring your car.

It is an extra motor to maintain and all you can do with it is camp. The truck can be use for a lot of things.

Towing the car and putting it on the dolly is worse then just hooking up the TT.

Plus sitting is the worst thing for an engine. At least with a truck, well I know with mine, I will drive it once every week to couple of weeks. I never just fired up the Motorhome to take it into work. I only ran if I was going camping.

Insurance for my motorhome was 40 bucks more a month then full coverage on my new trailer.


The only thing you can't do with a dolly is back it up. Other than that no difference. I'd much rather pull a car than trailer. Trailers if not loaded right and with the correct equipment and you'll be on your side... tow dolly hook it up pull the car on and strap it down and you're good to go. If you're worried about a motorhome setting too long you'll have the same issue's with trailer's. If you don't use a trailer at least once a year good luck on the frig, water heater and sometimes the ac. My grandparents RV sets for 4-5 months and they never had a issue. My uncle his set for six months straight sometimes are year without issues. Most know very little about RVing and vehicle storage in general.. that's the problem.

So what is your current RV? How long have you RVed?

I keep my trailer pluged in all year.

The fridge/Ac/Water heater are common to all RVs.

Not the motor stuff though.

I think you argue just to argue sometimes. I was telling hime what to look for at in ANY rv and what I say about a Class A or C is true. You can read about all over the RV boards from people who have done it for years.

My 10 years doing it says different, but go ahead. Don't learn from people who have done it...

To the OP. Go to an RV board and get some real answers about what you should get. A very wise man who had RVed for over 30's years once told me "Buy your second RV first" Best advice I have ever heard about RVs.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike

By ls1mike at 2012-05-27


That is a killer setup for $7K. Well done.

 

[ls1mike]

Thanks! It was pretty awesome. Lots of trips in that one. The Yellowstone Trip was awesome. I would go 48 to 50 mph over the big passes at 4000 RPM in the 454/TH400. It would sign but it loved it.

Yellow Stone was nice, dropped the Trailer and drove all around the park. Got to see the grand Tetons. I Can't say enough about those.

I must have camped 40 to 50 days a year with those two for 5 years. The new stuff is nice, but I miss those guys!

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: supton

I know the Vortec's are the bee's knee's and all;


Now that you have had a lot of good advice and all. Do you really believe that. The LS series V8's have been good but for truck applications bee's knee's in 2012 no. HP, Torque, fuel economy is as good in GM's competitors but often in smaller displacement(Good that GM is debuting the next generation of engines soon). So a better statement would have been Vortec's are still competitive not the bee's knee's.
GM
5.3 315 HP; 335 Torque
Ford
5.0 350 HP; 380 LBS
RAM
4.7 310 HP; 330 LBS
Toyota
4.6 310 HP; 327 LBS

 

[Shannow]

I'm interested in how things are rated for capacity over there.

My Nissan is rated for carrying a tonne, or towing 3..3L TDI

 

[wander2039]

Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Originally Posted By: ls1mike
Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Instead of messing with a truck and trailer just get a Class A or C. Unless you really need a truck. We really don't have a need for a truck part of our reasoning on going with most likely a 25ft Class A if we can find one. Get a tow dolly and one of your current cars can be the run-about if you're setting for a extended period of time.


I did that for 5 years in a 24 foot Class A with a 454, and while I think that works well if you are full time RVing. It becomes a pain if it is just for weekends. If you have kids or want to go see anything you will need to bring your car.

It is an extra motor to maintain and all you can do with it is camp. The truck can be use for a lot of things.

Towing the car and putting it on the dolly is worse then just hooking up the TT.

Plus sitting is the worst thing for an engine. At least with a truck, well I know with mine, I will drive it once every week to couple of weeks. I never just fired up the Motorhome to take it into work. I only ran if I was going camping.

Insurance for my motorhome was 40 bucks more a month then full coverage on my new trailer.


The only thing you can't do with a dolly is back it up. Other than that no difference. I'd much rather pull a car than trailer. Trailers if not loaded right and with the correct equipment and you'll be on your side... tow dolly hook it up pull the car on and strap it down and you're good to go. If you're worried about a motorhome setting too long you'll have the same issue's with trailer's. If you don't use a trailer at least once a year good luck on the frig, water heater and sometimes the ac. My grandparents RV sets for 4-5 months and they never had a issue. My uncle his set for six months straight sometimes are year without issues. Most know very little about RVing and vehicle storage in general.. that's the problem.

So what is your current RV? How long have you RVed?

I keep my trailer pluged in all year.

The fridge/Ac/Water heater are common to all RVs.

Not the motor stuff though.

I think you argue just to argue sometimes. I was telling hime what to look for at in ANY rv and what I say about a Class A or C is true. You can read about all over the RV boards from people who have done it for years.

My 10 years doing it says different, but go ahead. Don't learn from people who have done it...

To the OP. Go to an RV board and get some real answers about what you should get. A very wise man who had RVed for over 30's years once told me "Buy your second RV first" Best advice I have ever heard about RVs.

Sometimes I argue just to argue... look at what you wrote. 10 years isn't anything... and I've more than 10 years with just what I've had and the man I've learned everything from has over 40 years without any incidents. If I didn't know better you drive Chevy's by your response...

 

[ls1mike]

So Eric,

I will ask again, what is your RV how long have you RVed.

You don't think I talk to anyone when I camp with or anyone on the RV boards who has been doing for that long plus?

You drive Fords, don't see the point in the post of me driving Chevys. I have had a bunch of diferrent cars. They are just what I am comfortable with. If that was insult, Touche sir. Lots of people drive Chevys. So I will take it as a compliment.

But I digress we have argued before on this board so I will say I won't argue with any more and let you do your thing. Enjoy your time here.

Happy Memorial day.

I will let the OP continue his thread with out any arguments.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: dave1251

Now that you have had a lot of good advice and all. Do you really believe that. The LS series V8's have been good but for truck applications bee's knee's in 2012 no. HP, Torque, fuel economy is as good in GM's competitors but often in smaller displacement(Good that GM is debuting the next generation of engines soon). So a better statement would have been Vortec's are still competitive not the bee's knee's.
GM
5.3 315 HP; 335 Torque
Ford
5.0 350 HP; 380 LBS
RAM
4.7 310 HP; 330 LBS
Toyota
4.6 310 HP; 327 LBS


Yes. Well, sorta. I’ve always been a GM fanboy. I know they have made their fair share of [censored] (late 90’s trucks rotted quickly, and so did early 2000’s I think); but Ford seems to think it normal to design a vehicle that requires removal of the cab for engine work, while Dodges, well, come with legendary Dodge quality and reliability. [I know I shouldn’t talk, driving a VW and all, but fanboys don’t have to be consistant in their thinking.] Toyota’s used to be somewhat weak (frame flex, frame rot, weak engines) and commanded a premium for being a Toyota. When I saw the loss leaders being advertised for Memorial Day weekend, and the desire to tow a camper at some point, that triggered the interest.

I still think the 4.8 is a 275ft-lb motor, while the 5.3 is a 300ft-lb motor. You have to spin past 4k to get to those 300/335 ratings; much higher to hit the 300/315hp marks. I suppose one will hit that if they ever had to downshift to 2nd on the highway, given the big jump between 2nd and 3rd on the 4L60E, if one fails to get the 6 speed.

In the end, I’m finding this to be a dead-end. I was hoping that I could get into a camper for reasonable money, maybe over the next year or two; but since I should buy a vehicle with plenty of reserve towing capacity, I should get a ¾ ton with a 6+ liter engine for what would amount to 3 or at most 4 weeks of use per year. That strikes me as ridiculous so that won’t happen. To avoid spending crazy money I would need to stay below 5,000lb, which is sub-20’, which is probably in the limit of my driveway anyhow. But since one never knows what they might want in the future… so even if I wanted to buy a tow vehicle now, it wouldn’t make any sense.

I think I’ll stick with tenting. Buying the smallest pop-up appears to take my car to its limits: after filling the fuel tank, putting all the people into the car, and taking into account tongue weight, I’d have 300lb left in the car, and about 400lb in the trailer, and I’d be at the max but still need to toss in all the camping amenities. $10-20k (what it’d cost for me to get a good tow vehicle and a 16’ plus hardside) would buy lots of nights in hotels, and I would never have to winterize. In terms of cost and complexity and return on investment (re: keeping my levels of frustration low) it appears tenting, or at most a pop-up, is what I am after.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
I'm interested in how things are rated for capacity over there.

My Nissan is rated for carrying a tonne, or towing 3..3L TDI


I recall reading that my car, which is rated for 1320 unbraked/1500lb braked is rated for over 3k in Europe. However, they have a different hitch setup (probably much better than class I?) and I want to say they are limited to 55mph max speeds. US-spec vehicles tend to have lower towing limits than in other countries, despite similar (or better) vehicle capabilities.