Virgin FL820S Cut Open

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by Lubener
Originally Posted by atikovi
Looks fine to me. No reason not to keep using them.

Must have very low expectations.

No, I just don't get swayed by internet conjecture and assumptions put forth by those with no technical background to evaluate the design in question. The "more pleats is better" argument for example.


Some people need to see their own cut open oil filter with torn media with their own eyes to understand why media tears. Others don't.

 

[atikovi]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by Lubener
Originally Posted by atikovi
Looks fine to me. No reason not to keep using them.

Must have very low expectations.

No, I just don't get swayed by internet conjecture and assumptions put forth by those with no technical background to evaluate the design in question. The "more pleats is better" argument for example.


Some people need to see their own cut open oil filter with torn media with their own eyes to understand why media tears. Others don't.


When those eyes can show me their degrees in filtration engineering or materials science, I'll believe. I can soak a roll of the finest toilet paper in water and see how easily it tears. Is the conclusion because it tears, that it's inferior?

 

[TXCarGeek]

Originally Posted by BlueOvalFitter
That's a good looking oil filter. If I had a vehicle with the engine it calls for that filter, I would use it.
And, I wouldn't tear the pleats after I cut it open, to get 5 minutes of fame!

I've previously posted a thread with my compromised 820S...don't know what fame I'm getting from a niche online oil forum lol.

The pleats were very obviously pulled away from the backing plate adhesive because the entire pleat had folded over itself. The FL400S didn't exhibit anything close to this and I have no problem using that MC filter. The 820S though...I'll pass because there's other filters that don't have pleats that fold over.

 

[TXCarGeek]

Originally Posted by atikovi

When those eyes can show me their degrees in filtration engineering or materials science, I'll believe. I can soak a roll of the finest toilet paper in water and see how easily it tears. Is the conclusion because it tears, that it's inferior?


Hasn't that go to line of logic of yours already been debunked?

The fact is that multiple people have displayed the 820S having pleats that have folded over themselves and sometimes ripped. Many, many filters that don't do that including some other MC filters. I've ran the FL400S without issues and the pleating was intact when I cut it open unlike the 820S.

 

[bbhero]

True ^^^^^^


The Motorcraft fl400s filters always look great... Along with the fl500s as well.

 

[TXCarGeek]

Originally Posted by bbhero
True ^^^^^^


The Motorcraft fl400s filters always look great... Along with the fl500s as well.


Have never tried an FL500S but I know it'll mount up to my 5.4 3 valve...aside from the physical size, the only difference is the byass setting...

 

[atikovi]

Yet cars that are driven the most miles, taxis and limos, that use that very same filter seem to survive just fine to 300,000, 400,000, 500,000 miles and more.

 

[PowerSurge]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by Lubener
Originally Posted by atikovi
Looks fine to me. No reason not to keep using them.

Must have very low expectations.

No, I just don't get swayed by internet conjecture and assumptions put forth by those with no technical background to evaluate the design in question. The "more pleats is better" argument for example.


Some people need to see their own cut open oil filter with torn media with their own eyes to understand why media tears. Others don't.


Definitely. Some of the posts I see here are nothing but smh posts. Wow.

 

[RazorsEdge]

Originally Posted by atikovi
Yet cars that are driven the most miles, taxis and limos, that use that very same filter seem to survive just fine to 300,000, 400,000, 500,000 miles and more.


Yes, we've got a Crown Vic with 350,000 miles using this oil filter but it's such a "bad" oil filter

 

[atikovi]

It's just that some people here can't fathom the fact a filter media that tears on a cut apart substrate without the body to hold it together and protect it from tearing doesn't equate to inferior. If it wasn't designed to be cut apart, yes, it probably does have a tendency to tear once it's cut apart and handled. Also, people here love to argue just for the sake of argument as evidenced by my past topic of getting paid for car storage.

 

[RazorsEdge]

Originally Posted by atikovi
It's just that some people here can't fathom the fact a filter media that tears on a cut apart substrate without the body to hold it together and protect it from tearing doesn't equate to inferior. If it wasn't designed to be cut apart, yes, it probably does have a tendency to tear once it's cut apart and handled. Also, people here love to argue just for the sake of argument as evidenced by my past topic of getting paid for car storage.


Real day-to-day results here is what matters. I've got proof sitting in my driveway that the FL-820S oil filter holds up just fine regardless of all these "tear-down" photos that are on this internet forum.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by atikovi
It's just that some people here can't fathom the fact a filter media that tears on a cut apart substrate without the body to hold it together and protect it from tearing doesn't equate to inferior. If it wasn't designed to be cut apart, yes, it probably does have a tendency to tear once it's cut apart and handled.


Part in red ...

Engineering logic = 0.

Have you ever cut open an oil filter?

 

[TXCarGeek]

Originally Posted by atikovi
Yet cars that are driven the most miles, taxis and limos, that use that very same filter seem to survive just fine to 300,000, 400,000, 500,000 miles and more.


I have about a combined 815K miles on three vehicles in my family that I maintain myself...a 2000 Excursion, a 2000 Expedition, and a 2008 Navigator, all of which have used an FL820S throughout their lives; if there's anyone that can attest to engines living while running the 820, it's me. I was skeptical of the stories about tearing purolators and motorcrafts when I first heard about it and was extremely resistant to switching away from the 820, but there's just been TOO many testimonials, including my own, that these filters have issues. Perhaps the filters aren't causing catastrophic failure, but I prefer to spend my money on filters that have been shown repeatedly to hold up superior to the 820.

 

[TXCarGeek]

Originally Posted by atikovi
It's just that some people here can't fathom the fact a filter media that tears on a cut apart substrate without the body to hold it together and protect it from tearing doesn't equate to inferior. If it wasn't designed to be cut apart, yes, it probably does have a tendency to tear once it's cut apart and handled. Also, people here love to argue just for the sake of argument as evidenced by my past topic of getting paid for car storage.


So many filters, including other MC filters like the FL400S, have been cut open and directly debunk your logic by not showing tears, folded pleats, or end caps that fall off. Really don't understand the point you're trying to make.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Torn media can go down stream and cause issues on modern engines with VVT. There's a Ford Tech Talk video (on YouTube) I've posted a few times lately where they talk about it. They even show an FL820S with totn media in the video.

 

[Black_Thunder]

I think have one or two 820's in my possession and will probably cut them open after I use them.


thinking about switching over to all Wix or even fleetguard.

 

[TXCarGeek]

Originally Posted by Black_Thunder
I think have one or two 820's in my possession and will probably cut them open after I use them.


thinking about switching over to all Wix or even fleetguard.


The more the merrier!

 

[Lubener]

Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by Lubener
Originally Posted by atikovi
Looks fine to me. No reason not to keep using them.

Must have very low expectations.


No, I just don't get swayed by internet conjecture and assumptions put forth by those with no technical background to evaluate the design in question. The "more pleats is better" argument for example.

Never swayed but I have had several Puro's and MC's that torn and it doesn't take an advanced degree but common sense( a rare commodity) to realize that those wide pleats are where it all happens. I can imagine what that filter will look like after 5k miles.

 

[MParr]

"
Never swayed but I have had several Puro's and MC's that torn and it doesn't take an advanced degree but common sense( a rare commodity) to realize that those wide pleats are where it all happens. I can imagine what that filter will look like after 5k miles."

Lubener
1) The wide pleats where the media is joined.
2) The metal end caps don't come up far enough and the media should meet the end caps. In other words, the lip on the end cap should be a little taller and the media should butt up against the end cap lip.

 

[mpgo4th]

When those eyes can show me their degrees in filtration engineering or materials science, I'll believe. I can soak a roll of the finest toilet paper in water and see how easily it tears. Is the conclusion because it tears, that it's inferior? [/quote]

I personally don't think it's just a design or build problem. I have used an bunch of Hastings and Baldwin filters here at work lately. I've cut new and used ones and find that they both have pleat spacing that is uneven and has larger spaces much like the Motorcraft. But when used on the same vehicles at the same oci they don't tear. No I'm not and engineer who holds a degree in filtration, but I do have eyes and data to make the conclusion that motorcraft media tears. Not an opinion. It's a fact. I probably use 300-400 filters a year and see what works and what does not. If your not convinced they are a bad idea to run on your car, fine. I only post pics to show people who like to see them. I never meant to changes anyone's mind, just provide interesting reading material.