USS Indianapolis found after 72 years

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Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
I grew up with a guy whose dad had been a POW of the Japanese in WWII. He could never lead a normal life. He would wake up thinking reality was him being in a dream state and start screaming because he thought it meant he'd be taken away for more senseless brutal torture for his captors' amusement at any moment. Even electroshock therapy had no effect for him.

This was decades before PTSD was an acronym.

Watch a documentary on the Bataan Death March some time that includes interviews with survivors. Some break down on camera stating if they had known what they were going to go through they would have comitted suicude before being captured.

Not all casualties are fatalities.

The Japanese were deep into working on biological WMD instead of fissionable materials. Flea farms with bubonic plague and mosquito farms with malaria.


With the rise of the Cold Was , it became necessary for Germany & Japan to transition from former , occupied , enemies to allies . Part of this was to " rehabilitate " public opinion concerning the Germans & Japanese . The Emperor was redefined as a helpless figure head . Plus , McArthor needed his cooperation in order to peacefully occupy and administer Japan .

In fact , many of then powers that be in Japan opposed the surrender . The Emperor spoke & it happened .

Thanks , :)
 
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
You people do understand that this ship was associated with the murder of numerous innocent civilians?


A fairly childish and unnuanced view. We can just as likely argue the bomb saved far more lives as the Japanese regime of rapist [censored] was more than willing to fight the the last Japanese school girl wielding a bamboo spear...
 
Originally Posted By: andyd
Everything I ever read about Hirohito was that he had been isolated from any actual participation in the military by the cabal of ultra militarists who conducted the war from the build up all the way to the surrender....


Yeah, um, no. He wasn't innocent in any sense...
 
Originally Posted By: WyrTwister
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
I grew up with a guy whose dad had been a POW of the Japanese in WWII. He could never lead a normal life. He would wake up thinking reality was him being in a dream state and start screaming because he thought it meant he'd be taken away for more senseless brutal torture for his captors' amusement at any moment. Even electroshock therapy had no effect for him.

This was decades before PTSD was an acronym.

Watch a documentary on the Bataan Death March some time that includes interviews with survivors. Some break down on camera stating if they had known what they were going to go through they would have comitted suicude before being captured.

Not all casualties are fatalities.

The Japanese were deep into working on biological WMD instead of fissionable materials. Flea farms with bubonic plague and mosquito farms with malaria.


With the rise of the Cold Was , it became necessary for Germany & Japan to transition from former , occupied , enemies to allies . Part of this was to " rehabilitate " public opinion concerning the Germans & Japanese . The Emperor was redefined as a helpless figure head . Plus , McArthor needed his cooperation in order to peacefully occupy and administer Japan .

In fact , many of then powers that be in Japan opposed the surrender . The Emperor spoke & it happened .

Thanks , :)


There's a bit of a difference though. Germany came to grips with their Nazi past and acknowledged they did some horrifying things. The Japanese gov't -- not so much...
 
Originally Posted By: WyrTwister
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
I grew up with a guy whose dad had been a POW of the Japanese in WWII. He could never lead a normal life. He would wake up thinking reality was him being in a dream state and start screaming because he thought it meant he'd be taken away for more senseless brutal torture for his captors' amusement at any moment. Even electroshock therapy had no effect for him.

This was decades before PTSD was an acronym.

Watch a documentary on the Bataan Death March some time that includes interviews with survivors. Some break down on camera stating if they had known what they were going to go through they would have comitted suicude before being captured.

Not all casualties are fatalities.

The Japanese were deep into working on biological WMD instead of fissionable materials. Flea farms with bubonic plague and mosquito farms with malaria.


With the rise of the Cold Was , it became necessary for Germany & Japan to transition from former , occupied , enemies to allies . Part of this was to " rehabilitate " public opinion concerning the Germans & Japanese . The Emperor was redefined as a helpless figure head . Plus , McArthor needed his cooperation in order to peacefully occupy and administer Japan .

In fact , many of then powers that be in Japan opposed the surrender . The Emperor spoke & it happened .

Thanks , :)


My point is I was born almost 2 decades after WWII and I would still support the decision to use nukes on Japan to end the war. My father was an early draftee who wound up in the Air Corps. He served all through North Africa, the Mediterranean theater, and Europe, but was thankfully spared the Pacific experience.

I may not have been present firsthand, but saw enough of the effects of that war personally. My father always said the two happiest days of his life were the day he got married to my mother, and the day he was discharged from the armed forces (with no disrespect for anyone serving). I was in the first group that had to register for the new Selective Service in 1980. I would fight if called but recognized a similar perspective of questioning authority in me my dad had, making me appreciate his sacrifice and those he fought alongside all the more. I was spared ever being drafted.

To personally know someone whose real life was taken from them because their mind could never leave a Japanese POW camp made it even more real, and is probably lost on many of the youth of today, and their teachers.

I met one of the surviving Tuskegee Airmen 2 years ago, Dr. Brown, who was shot down over Italy strafing a train that had a camoflauged AA gun flatcar. He spent 9 months in a German POW camp as a black man, and was nowhere near as affected as the Japanese camp POW survivor I knew.
 
You mention the pilot was black man in a German POW camp hinting it may have been even worse for him.
Much to the propaganda put out the Germans and Hitler was much less racist than the United States was at the time and there were many blacks that served in the German army.
Another misconception is the Japanese surrendered based solely on the atomic bombs.
Many historians believe the Russians launched thier land attack through Manchuria and that had much more to do with Japans surrender. The red horde would have destroyed the country and laid waste to Japan much worse than the Americans. Seeing what the Russians did to the Germans and what the Americans did was a big reason the Japanese would rather be occupied by the Americans. The Russians were the true war criminals of World War 2 and the Germans fought many break out to get civilians into American occupied areas and out of the Russian onslaught.
It still sickens me we ever allied Stalin and Russia.
I much believe Patton was right that we should have re- armed the German POWs and pushed the Russians back to the Ukraine but that comment earned him a accident.
 
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: demarpaint

I'm happy it remains property of the USN. The ship should remain where it is, as it is, untouched. It is and should remain hallowed grounds.


It is 18,000 feet down!

Who are you worried is going to disturb/tamper with it?


Not now, even if they could due to changes in technology and equipment at some future date, they can't. Believe me they'd try first chance technology allows....
 
Panzerman,

Tell it to the POW's who was & wasn't racist among their captors. Matters more than thoughts on their leadership's official position.

You honestly believe the Russians were the only war criminals of WWII?

How many POW's of that era did you grow up knowing, much less ever speaking to?

I have no misconceptions that the Japanese did not surrender before the first atomic bomb was dropped, nor after the first atomic bomb was dropped.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Al
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
And where is your outrage at the conventional bombing of Tokyo, which killed far more people than the nuclear bombs did? Conventional bombs = OK, but nuclear bombs = bad???

I am not sure you are dealing with someone who understands History....wait...I am sure.


I'm pretty sure too.
 
I am not stating any POWs had it pleasant. I was stating that Germany was less racial towards blacks at the same time period therefore being black in a POW camp meant very little.
Just about every country in that war was committing war crimes. The United States actually got removed from Geneva Convention.
I still consider the Japanese and the Russians the biggest offenders and neither got any punishment which was a crime in itself to let both countries off for the attrocities they committed.
Read about Unit 731 and all the fun stuff they had in plans for America like Bubonic plague flea bombs and the experiments on the Chinese that we said trade ya for.
 
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: andyd
Everything I ever read about Hirohito was that he had been isolated from any actual participation in the military by the cabal of ultra militarists who conducted the war from the build up all the way to the surrender....


Yeah, um, no. He wasn't innocent in any sense...


Correct .

That was the " rehabilitated " reputation that was an expedient .
 
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: WyrTwister
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
I grew up with a guy whose dad had been a POW of the Japanese in WWII. He could never lead a normal life. He would wake up thinking reality was him being in a dream state and start screaming because he thought it meant he'd be taken away for more senseless brutal torture for his captors' amusement at any moment. Even electroshock therapy had no effect for him.

This was decades before PTSD was an acronym.

Watch a documentary on the Bataan Death March some time that includes interviews with survivors. Some break down on camera stating if they had known what they were going to go through they would have comitted suicude before being captured.

Not all casualties are fatalities.

The Japanese were deep into working on biological WMD instead of fissionable materials. Flea farms with bubonic plague and mosquito farms with malaria.


With the rise of the Cold Was , it became necessary for Germany & Japan to transition from former , occupied , enemies to allies . Part of this was to " rehabilitate " public opinion concerning the Germans & Japanese . The Emperor was redefined as a helpless figure head . Plus , McArthor needed his cooperation in order to peacefully occupy and administer Japan .

In fact , many of then powers that be in Japan opposed the surrender . The Emperor spoke & it happened .

Thanks , :)


There's a bit of a difference though. Germany came to grips with their Nazi past and acknowledged they did some horrifying things. The Japanese gov't -- not so much...


Not that there are not Nazis running around , to date , over there and over here .
 
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
You people do understand that this ship was associated with the murder of numerous innocent civilians?


A fairly childish and unnuanced view. We can just as likely argue the bomb saved far more lives as the Japanese regime of rapist [censored] was more than willing to fight the the last Japanese school girl wielding a bamboo spear...


I think I have read the Japanese had around a million troops in China , but their Navy & merchant Marine had been degraded to the point that they could not transfer them to the home islands .

But , I also read they still had a million troops in the home land when they surrendered . Who were evidently still ready to " die for the Emperor " .

Had we invaded , our losses would have been horrendous . Including civilians , the Japanese losses would have been much larger .

On a side note , the 2 " devices " we dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima were the only " devices " we had completed & ready to deploy ( or so I read ) . But we were in the position to complete 1 or 2 per month for a fair time .

I do not think the Japanese knew this . They may have thought we had a large supply , ready to load on B-29's . If so , we can be thankful for that lack of knowledge on their part .

I recommend reading " the Emperor's General " .

We could have anchored off shore and wrecked destruction on them for quite some time . Although , I am not sure how many strategic targets were left , considering the previous B-29 conventional raids ?

My Dad's ship had already been shelling coastal targets .

I have talked with people that were scheduled to be part of the scheduled invasion . They thanked God for the 2 " devices " .

Their lives were going to be on the line . I think their voices speak much louder and with more authority than a bunch of today's arm chair liberals .

To me , the 2 " devices " made it much more certain my Dad came back alive .

May God have mercy on all of our souls .
 
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
Panzerman,

Tell it to the POW's who was & wasn't racist among their captors. Matters more than thoughts on their leadership's official position.

You honestly believe the Russians were the only war criminals of WWII?

How many POW's of that era did you grow up knowing, much less ever speaking to?

I have no misconceptions that the Japanese did not surrender before the first atomic bomb was dropped, nor after the first atomic bomb was dropped.


My understanding is the Japanese are extremely racist toward every one that was not Japanese . They treated other Asiatic peoples terribly .

I do not know if that racism has changed , down deep , in their hearts and souls .
 
I could tell you stories that my former father-in-law told me. He was a teenager in Guam during the 40's when the Japanese invaded the island right after Pearl Harbor. Even though he didn't serve, the brutality he was subjected to was overwhelming. He had the scars to prove it. The Japanese were brutal to the locals living on Guam at the time and killed many of them.
 
Read of the biological ( and maybe chemical ) warefare experiments the Japanese performed on the Chinese population .
 
You will get no defense from me over the Japanese. They were brutal racist monsters.
Unit 731 was terriable and I can't believe we did not put these monsters on trail after the war and execute more of them they made the Germans look like Unisef.
I believe the strife between Japan and China exist today because of Japans attrocities.
Can't say I blame the Chinese.
 
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
You will get no defense from me over the Japanese. They were brutal racist monsters.
Unit 731 was terriable and I can't believe we did not put these monsters on trail after the war and execute more of them they made the Germans look like Unisef.
I believe the strife between Japan and China exist today because of Japans attrocities.
Can't say I blame the Chinese.


Oh, that's for certain. The Nanking massacre is the most appalling crime against humanity that most people don't know about.
 
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