You can buy MMO at Canadian Tire. At least out here you can. $7.99 a quart.
Using ATF to thin out 10w30
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I'd use some 5w-20. I have the same issue as you, 10w-30 in the crankcase and cold weather but don't necessarily need nor want to do an oil change. I started my car the other day when it was -10 with 10w-30 and some CD2 oil additive. YIKES. Topped off with a full quart of 5w-20 and it's made for easier cold/smoother cold starting. What engine/vehicle is this? You tried all 5w-20 in it before? And it didn't blow up on ya!!
Just change the oil. Dont be cheap and mess something up.
MolaKule
Staff member
Don't use ATP or a gunk that would thin the oil to less than 0W20 or 4.5 cst.
So what's the point of this thread? How will you know that adding ATF killed the engine sooner, later or not at all?
If 5w20 burned less it, might be unsticking the rings. Since you want to kill the motor, I'd try chainsaw bar oil, and see how it goes. Or maybe you cold try straight canola oil, and do a UOA just for kicks.
are there any adverse effects to adding one quart of ATF into soem 10w30? What type of additives (specifically) does ATF have that could pose a problem in an engine? People used to flush their engines with ATF
i was told that ATF might have a tendency to polish mating metal sufaces so from that i assume it's a no-no for engines. (baaad thing for cylinder walls)
and why would you want to thin out 10W30? But if you really want to why not switch to or mix with 5W20 motor oil instead?
and why would you want to thin out 10W30? But if you really want to why not switch to or mix with 5W20 motor oil instead?
well because the engine burns lots of oil and 10-30 is what was in the crankcase now. but with our unpredicatable winter weather, we've seen all temperatures from 60* to 20*. Even just one Qt of ATF you think will polish stuff? Is it cuz of an additive or just the nature of the viscosity
Bad idea today. Read more here:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002977;p=1#000006
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002977;p=1#000006
I read the threads and still cant find any critical points to indicate that it may be destructive.
If you do a search in VOA for atf, I believe you'll find a post by MolaKule concerning some compositions. Relative to engine oil formulations, there isn't much in the way of additives. Adding ATF to one's crankcase will not only lower the oil's viscosity, but also dilute the additive concentrations. It may be possible to find some sulfurous compounds in ATF that when in the crankcase could interact with condensate from blow-by moisture and other, to increase the rate of acid formation. If this were the case it would increase the rate of TBN drop, shortening the usefullness of the oil.
FWIW - I've heard from a former co-worker that to remedie his old BMW's lifter tick at start-up, the guys in the shop added a qt of ATF. I can't say if this was a dealer shop or not.
I'd stick with a low weight formulated engine oil to maintain additive levels and prevent the possibility of adding any more possible acid-forming compounds than can be presented by just running the thing. It's you engine, so do as you wish...even if you have a back-up.
Kinda makes me wonder the point to this tread if you're just trying to trash this engine.
FWIW - I've heard from a former co-worker that to remedie his old BMW's lifter tick at start-up, the guys in the shop added a qt of ATF. I can't say if this was a dealer shop or not.
I'd stick with a low weight formulated engine oil to maintain additive levels and prevent the possibility of adding any more possible acid-forming compounds than can be presented by just running the thing. It's you engine, so do as you wish...even if you have a back-up.
Kinda makes me wonder the point to this tread if you're just trying to trash this engine.
If you want to destroy the car and have fun doing it, you'll need a Scangauge and a friend in your car.
You'll also need a guy to pick you up after your car breaks down.
Drain all your oil. Get on the local highway. Time how long it takes for your vehicle to fail. Have your friend use a watch and the Scangauge to take minute by minute observations of your gas mileage and coolant temperature. If you have other gauges it'd be cool to note those as well.
When it breaks down, take some pictures for us, especially if you manage to make one of your pistons shoot out or something. Then call for a wrecker to get it home and you can put in your new engine. Please post your results here. I know it's not a UOA, but I'd LOVE to see the data.
You'll also need a guy to pick you up after your car breaks down.
Drain all your oil. Get on the local highway. Time how long it takes for your vehicle to fail. Have your friend use a watch and the Scangauge to take minute by minute observations of your gas mileage and coolant temperature. If you have other gauges it'd be cool to note those as well.
When it breaks down, take some pictures for us, especially if you manage to make one of your pistons shoot out or something. Then call for a wrecker to get it home and you can put in your new engine. Please post your results here. I know it's not a UOA, but I'd LOVE to see the data.
and then it occured to me that those "naphthenic dispersants", which is added to keep particles in suspension, are generally anti-additive. its possible that its washing the elemental additives from the motor oil off the engines internals. this can be good and bad, depending on what the intention is
ATF is closest to a PP depressed and aniti oxidant, dispersant type AW 46 hydraulic oil and as such will not do much to clean other than being thin is mayhelp flush gunk out.
A better bet would be useing a cheap grade, low vis PCMO like at 10/30 or 5/20 and changeing it out every 2-3K.
MMO as I remember is only mineral spirts, kerosene and gylcol ether or chlorinated solvent very good and de sludgeing a engine.
bruce
A better bet would be useing a cheap grade, low vis PCMO like at 10/30 or 5/20 and changeing it out every 2-3K.
MMO as I remember is only mineral spirts, kerosene and gylcol ether or chlorinated solvent very good and de sludgeing a engine.
bruce
At the risk of sounding like a heretic here, I'd like to point out that back in the 1950s and 60s using ATF was a commonly accepted practice to clean up the engines of high mileage cars. I believe that the mix of 1 quart ATF with 4 quarts regular oil was run at idle or at very low engine speed for 1/2 hour or so. Then the mix was drained. It was amazing how black and full of sludge this oil was!
Glen
Glen
olefam-
In the 50s and 60s, motor oil came pretty much with very basic refines such as crude solvent cleaning to remove large waxy particles, and most of these motor oils were not equipped with any additional additives such as dispersants, AW/EP additives, anti-foaming agents, acid neutralisers, etc. Because of this, running something lightweight such as ATF or even MMO in large quantities (short of throwing in a full gal of kerosene into engine as a motor flush) will definitely resulted in some very ineresting outcome (dirt,crap, sludge, etc.)
With modern engine designs, engine management controls, environmental pollution controls, etc. Engines we run on how is a total different ballgame: requires the use of at least group 1/2 basestock with magical blends of dispersants, additives, acid-neutralisers. anti-foaming agents, to keep the engine in good, reliable services in-between oil changes, and so on. Also: lubrication requirements are way, way more stringent because of the need of higher efficiency, higher output, etc. (cam profile and designs, compression ratios, PCV/closed-loop operation),etc. what was once thought to be a "viable" idea such as flushing your engine with ATF is no longer a good idea (for if you upset the chemical additives that is vital to provide protetion ot cam lobes, etc., you'll ruin your cam 4 sure). Heck! I'm one of whose readily against 10min kero flush!
Anyways, old tricks die hard in this case, IMHO. I really don't mind being flamed for saying this for I worked alongside with some old mechanics/old pleasure plane mechanics that their trick doesn't seem to work very well anymore, no matter how reulctant they are in making us into believing....
In the 50s and 60s, motor oil came pretty much with very basic refines such as crude solvent cleaning to remove large waxy particles, and most of these motor oils were not equipped with any additional additives such as dispersants, AW/EP additives, anti-foaming agents, acid neutralisers, etc. Because of this, running something lightweight such as ATF or even MMO in large quantities (short of throwing in a full gal of kerosene into engine as a motor flush) will definitely resulted in some very ineresting outcome (dirt,crap, sludge, etc.)
With modern engine designs, engine management controls, environmental pollution controls, etc. Engines we run on how is a total different ballgame: requires the use of at least group 1/2 basestock with magical blends of dispersants, additives, acid-neutralisers. anti-foaming agents, to keep the engine in good, reliable services in-between oil changes, and so on. Also: lubrication requirements are way, way more stringent because of the need of higher efficiency, higher output, etc. (cam profile and designs, compression ratios, PCV/closed-loop operation),etc. what was once thought to be a "viable" idea such as flushing your engine with ATF is no longer a good idea (for if you upset the chemical additives that is vital to provide protetion ot cam lobes, etc., you'll ruin your cam 4 sure). Heck! I'm one of whose readily against 10min kero flush!
Anyways, old tricks die hard in this case, IMHO. I really don't mind being flamed for saying this for I worked alongside with some old mechanics/old pleasure plane mechanics that their trick doesn't seem to work very well anymore, no matter how reulctant they are in making us into believing....
"probably doesnt cut it with me!!!! maybe, well you know its called atf and stuff also isnt convincing. I do weird stuff like this all the time."
Go for it man..don't let us stop you.
Go for it man..don't let us stop you.
Marvel Mystery Oil is available at every Canadian Tire I visit in the Toronto Area (chiefly Yonge & Davenport, Eglinton and Laird, and Lawrence east of Dufferin) and on their website although I have only seen it appear in the last year and a half.
Two weeks ago CDN Tire had the Formula 1 Synthetic blend in 5w20 on sale for something like $9.99 CDN per 4 litre jug. The regular price is only $13.99 CDN. Often these sales are only on grades like 5w30 and 10w40. If I wanted to thin out and add some cleaning to a junker I would probably toss in a bit of that 5w20. I expect that in thinning, solvency and detergency it would be much better than ATF.
Two weeks ago CDN Tire had the Formula 1 Synthetic blend in 5w20 on sale for something like $9.99 CDN per 4 litre jug. The regular price is only $13.99 CDN. Often these sales are only on grades like 5w30 and 10w40. If I wanted to thin out and add some cleaning to a junker I would probably toss in a bit of that 5w20. I expect that in thinning, solvency and detergency it would be much better than ATF.
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