I have been feeling this way since not long after shortages began.
US Ammunition consumption.
- Thread starter Tikka
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Hi.
$1 Billion is still a staggering amount to a Brit shooter. That is just ammo supplied by the Vista Outdoors brands too. I bet you lads shoot millions of military surplus and russian ammo in the high consumtion rifles like AK47, AR15 etc. I am presuming the Russian factories will be exporting ammo by the ship load to take advantage. Euro manufacturers too like Sellior and Bellot and Privi.
What is the limiting factor in U.S. manufacturing? Lack of capacity or/and components? There are only so many primers can be made and i guess that Military take priority.
The shortages will feed through to us eventually.
$1 Billion is still a staggering amount to a Brit shooter. That is just ammo supplied by the Vista Outdoors brands too. I bet you lads shoot millions of military surplus and russian ammo in the high consumtion rifles like AK47, AR15 etc. I am presuming the Russian factories will be exporting ammo by the ship load to take advantage. Euro manufacturers too like Sellior and Bellot and Privi.
What is the limiting factor in U.S. manufacturing? Lack of capacity or/and components? There are only so many primers can be made and i guess that Military take priority.
The shortages will feed through to us eventually.
We can still buy 7.62x39 at reasonable prices. I have 2 AKs and an AR chambered in 7.62x39, but it isn't a terribly popular round here in the US, hence why it is still available.
Primers are the limiting factor IMHO. There are only 4 US companies who make primers (CCI, Federal, Winchester & Remington) and all of the ammo manufactures pull from that same primer stock. I'm a reloader, the only components had to come by are the primers, especially small pistol and small rifle primers.
Hi.
Well you live and learn. I thought the 7.62x39 would be more popular. I always thought the Ruger Ranch Rifle in that cartridge would be a handy little rifle.
I agree, as for the component, think lead.
I could buy a specific "component shortage" but working in the mining industry, lead aint it.
If it was specifically lead ( or insert any other element or alloy) then logically we would see similar shortages ( or radical price increases- or both) in other items that would use said components and even then that wouldn't affect the availability of the other components in the ammunition/reloading chain. ( all other things equal, the shelves should be stocked full of them and they are not moving)
Not to mention, just for national Security, there is no shortage of military calibers for certain.
Cant prove it but I think there is something (s) much more deliberate and specific going on
Every one should have at least one 40 S@W they are fairly low priced when things are normal, last year they were quit a bit lower on the used market.
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Yep, and a .357Sig is just a barrel away. I have a few Glocks and Sigs that I go back and forth with. Best of all worlds, even my 3 or 4 "Glock" 20's have various bodies and barrels, but all will shoot .40SW/.357Sig.
In any end product production chain, it only takes one component supplier's lack of product, or a lack of production volume logistics to blow-up or limit the supply chain. Too many factors involved for anyone here to know for sure what the bottle neck(s) are, or what if any "nonferrous reasons" to cut or slow production might be going on behind the scenes. I'm sure every ammo manufacturer is going all out right now to make and sell as much as they can since the demand seems at an all time high. Most major gun hobbyist will buy ammo and stockpile to a certain degree when the getting is good, and aren't impacted too much in situations like this.
Perhaps there is no shortage of lead being mined in the US, but there is ZERO lead being smelted in the US, which means ammo manufacturers in the US are at the mercy of the foreign controlled secondary lead markets.
Lead acid automotive batteries have nearly doubled in price in the past few years.
I agree that there is likely some issue with the supply of other components as well.
We should all be well aware of the colossal govt. orders that take precedence over the civilian market.
Care to share your thoughts?
In 2019 I bought a case of 40 caliber ammo from SGAMMO. It's a government over run of Winchester 180 gr. Ranger Bonded Q4369 (PDX1). I paid $17.95 per box ($179.50 + $18 shipping), $197.50 total.
Last night I was surfing the interweb for 40 caliber ammo and came across a site selling this same ammo, and in stock. When I saw the price for it I was very happy that I had stocked up on it earlier last year.
Winchester LE 40 S&W 180 gr. BONDED JHP Q4369 50 rnd/box [E-Q4369-50] - $56.99 : Ammo Supply Warehouse
Last night I was surfing the interweb for 40 caliber ammo and came across a site selling this same ammo, and in stock. When I saw the price for it I was very happy that I had stocked up on it earlier last year.
Winchester LE 40 S&W 180 gr. BONDED JHP Q4369 50 rnd/box [E-Q4369-50] - $56.99 : Ammo Supply Warehouse
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The same people that hoard/hoarded all of the TP are the same 1st time firearms buyers. They are also the same that are hoarding all of the ammo.
My advice to them about being a 1st time firearms owner, "You'll shoot your eye out!"
Are you thinking big brother?
It might be trivial to some but l just wanted to point out how Winchester has come along over the years with improvements to their JHP line of bullets. I am truly a Winchester fan boy, and ain't ashamed to say so.
In the pic below, the Winchedter bullets are both 165 gr. Bonded JHP's. The left was made in 2018, the right was made in 2008. Notice the larger cavity in the 2018 bullet? It makes for more expansion but less penetration. And vice versa for the other bullet.
In the pic below, the Winchedter bullets are both 165 gr. Bonded JHP's. The left was made in 2018, the right was made in 2008. Notice the larger cavity in the 2018 bullet? It makes for more expansion but less penetration. And vice versa for the other bullet.
I think any time there is social chaos and uncertainty of the future, Americans are going to "stock up" with guns and ammo (as well as other deemed important products besides guns and ammo). The level of chaos and uncertainty hasn't been this high for decades. That's likely the main reason guns and ammo are in short supply. The data needed to know for sure is the amount of ammo currently coming out of ammo producers right now vs. over production volume history for the last year or two.
Per the article about Remington/Vista Outdoor: ... "As with nearly all new company acquisitions, Vista Outdoor is optimistic that between them and Remington Ammunition they will be able to pool resources, processes, intelligence in manufacturing, and be able to produce more ammunition (and better ammunition) than ever before."
Sounds like they are increasing overall production ... also from the article: ... "Vista is bringing back 300 furloughed/laid-off employees to keep supplying us with ammo."
The $1B ammo back order may stem from retailers selling ammo so fast that they are placing larger orders in hopes to feed the demand.
Per the article about Remington/Vista Outdoor: ... "As with nearly all new company acquisitions, Vista Outdoor is optimistic that between them and Remington Ammunition they will be able to pool resources, processes, intelligence in manufacturing, and be able to produce more ammunition (and better ammunition) than ever before."
Sounds like they are increasing overall production ... also from the article: ... "Vista is bringing back 300 furloughed/laid-off employees to keep supplying us with ammo."
The $1B ammo back order may stem from retailers selling ammo so fast that they are placing larger orders in hopes to feed the demand.
The pandemic and protests/riots have driven a lot of the new firearm and ammo purchases. I walked into my local shop back in late June to speak to the owner who is a friend of mine. He said...
"Man... I did 219 CWP classes in all of 2019. Those two who just walked out the door make #256 and #257 for 2020. It's not even July."
A lot of new / first time shooters of all ages. He said one of them was an 82 year old woman who had never shot or held a gun. I spoke with him again last month after he stopped selling ammo by itself.
"I've had open orders for ammo for weeks. I have no idea what ammo I might get in each shipment. With so many CWP classes, I need to hold on to what reloaded ammo I have for training. For now, I'm keeping a little bit of each caliber in reserve for when I sell a new gun to a new CWP holder just so they'll have something to carry. No ammo sales except up to 100 rounds with the purchase of a gun. I'd rather have 50 people with 100 rounds than one guy hoarding 5000 rounds."
"Man... I did 219 CWP classes in all of 2019. Those two who just walked out the door make #256 and #257 for 2020. It's not even July."
A lot of new / first time shooters of all ages. He said one of them was an 82 year old woman who had never shot or held a gun. I spoke with him again last month after he stopped selling ammo by itself.
"I've had open orders for ammo for weeks. I have no idea what ammo I might get in each shipment. With so many CWP classes, I need to hold on to what reloaded ammo I have for training. For now, I'm keeping a little bit of each caliber in reserve for when I sell a new gun to a new CWP holder just so they'll have something to carry. No ammo sales except up to 100 rounds with the purchase of a gun. I'd rather have 50 people with 100 rounds than one guy hoarding 5000 rounds."
I have documented my personal average TP use for a year and it is rounded up to 27 rolls per year. So I would want a milimunof 54. rolls per year in storage just because. Women use more.The same people that hoard/hoarded all of the TP are the same 1st time firearms buyers. They are also the same that are hoarding all of the ammo.
My advice to them about being a 1st time firearms owner, "You'll shoot your eye out!"
I've got a list going of places when I will never buy from, now or once things ever return to non panic buying. Retail places like this, which are jacking up their prices are all on the list. Winchester isn't charging them more for it, they just want to rape people.
I see no way the problem is anything but hoarding. If it were anything else the beans would be spilled by thousands of sources. Reminds me of the folks believe man never went to the moon.
The price for 9MM is stable at 60 cents per round. Been that way for 4 or 5 months.
The price for 9MM is stable at 60 cents per round. Been that way for 4 or 5 months.
It's not just hoarding but also a big influx of new shooters this year. As I mentioned above, my local gun shop owner / CWP instructor has seen a 105% increase in CWP applications and 120% increase in gun sales this year. More people buying guns means more people buying ammo. I think hoarding is the main reason but there's other factors also.
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