Toyota Officially Reclaims Global Sales Crown
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Watch out for VW. They're doing the same thing with Jetta as Toyota with their entire lineup. Basically the more enthusiasts complian, the more cars they're selling. Bland and cheap sells.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Watch out for VW. They're doing the same thing with Jetta as Toyota with their entire lineup. Basically the more enthusiasts complian, the more cars they're selling. Bland and cheap sells.
Shhhhhhh....don't tell Mazda.
You may be right.
Watch out for VW. They're doing the same thing with Jetta as Toyota with their entire lineup. Basically the more enthusiasts complian, the more cars they're selling. Bland and cheap sells.
Shhhhhhh....don't tell Mazda.
You may be right.
Not surprised...even though the Government did it's best to throw them under the bus with the trumped up acceleration deal they still make a superior vehicle when compared to GM.
Originally Posted By: The_Jake
Not surprised...even though the Government did it's best to throw them under the bus with the trumped up acceleration deal they still make a superior vehicle when compared to GM.
That is debateable depending on models discussed.
Not surprised...even though the Government did it's best to throw them under the bus with the trumped up acceleration deal they still make a superior vehicle when compared to GM.
That is debateable depending on models discussed.
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: The_Jake
Not surprised...even though the Government did it's best to throw them under the bus with the trumped up acceleration deal they still make a superior vehicle when compared to GM.
That is debateable depending on models discussed.
Reliability is debatable and every other aspect is not superior on Toyotas. But average public belief and conventional media wisdom sells all those Toyotas.
Originally Posted By: The_Jake
Not surprised...even though the Government did it's best to throw them under the bus with the trumped up acceleration deal they still make a superior vehicle when compared to GM.
That is debateable depending on models discussed.
Reliability is debatable and every other aspect is not superior on Toyotas. But average public belief and conventional media wisdom sells all those Toyotas.
I helped. No regrets.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Bland and cheap sells.
This is true enough, but VW is still playing a different game. Most Toyota and GM vehicles can last for 2 or three decades and a few hundred thousand miles with basic maintenance and maybe one or two major repairs. VW still makes cars that are so different that upkeep is expensive.
That said, VW has an advantage in that their showrooms are still a great place to hang out and meet pretty girls.
Bland and cheap sells.
This is true enough, but VW is still playing a different game. Most Toyota and GM vehicles can last for 2 or three decades and a few hundred thousand miles with basic maintenance and maybe one or two major repairs. VW still makes cars that are so different that upkeep is expensive.
That said, VW has an advantage in that their showrooms are still a great place to hang out and meet pretty girls.
the Government?
Sorry but that was and is a real problem i saw it first hand not on the scale shown but i did see it and its not the floor mats but i wont go into that here. I always liked toyota but their quality is slipping i see a lot of them with engine problems granted there are a lot of them out there i see a lot with lower mileage coming in for rebuilds.. toyota and honda are nothing what they used to be. They are still ok cars just not great like in the 80's 90's and early 2000's
Sorry but that was and is a real problem i saw it first hand not on the scale shown but i did see it and its not the floor mats but i wont go into that here. I always liked toyota but their quality is slipping i see a lot of them with engine problems granted there are a lot of them out there i see a lot with lower mileage coming in for rebuilds.. toyota and honda are nothing what they used to be. They are still ok cars just not great like in the 80's 90's and early 2000's
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: The_Jake
Not surprised...even though the Government did it's best to throw them under the bus with the trumped up acceleration deal they still make a superior vehicle when compared to GM.
That is debateable depending on models discussed.
+1
Originally Posted By: The_Jake
Not surprised...even though the Government did it's best to throw them under the bus with the trumped up acceleration deal they still make a superior vehicle when compared to GM.
That is debateable depending on models discussed.
+1
I figured I would throw this in here as well, it has to do with fleet sales for last year.
Sergio Marchionne promised to wean Chrysler off its reliance on fleet sales, shortly after taking over leadership of the company. Despite increased commercial-vehicle sales, Chrysler finished 2012 with 74% of its U.S. sales going to retail buyers, rather than fleets, an improvement over 2011, when 72% of sales were retail. General Motors also sold 74% of its cars at retail, while Ford sold just 70% on the retail market. That makes Ford the fleet-queen leader for 2012. Imports tend to have nearly all their sales in the retail market, though part of the difference may be having fewer truck sales. Nissan has the largest fleet share at 15% (85% retail), possibly partly due to the success of their commercial vans, but likely because of the Versa’s popularity in rental fleets (it combines a low price with a relatively large interior). Toyota was 90% retail, Honda 98%, and Hyundai-Kia 90%. The fleet sales leader for the year in pure numbers was Ford, with 674,000 fleet sales, but GM was close behind, with 673,300. Chrysler came in at 429,000; Toyota was the next largest, with half that number. Some fleet sales are desirable (many commercial truck sales, police cars, etc), while others are less so (near-cost sales to rental fleets). Increasing Chrysler’s retail share while reportedly increasing sales of police vehicles is likely an indication that the company has been getting more credibility among ordinary customers.
http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2013/01/chrysler-relying-less-on-fleet-sales
Sergio Marchionne promised to wean Chrysler off its reliance on fleet sales, shortly after taking over leadership of the company. Despite increased commercial-vehicle sales, Chrysler finished 2012 with 74% of its U.S. sales going to retail buyers, rather than fleets, an improvement over 2011, when 72% of sales were retail. General Motors also sold 74% of its cars at retail, while Ford sold just 70% on the retail market. That makes Ford the fleet-queen leader for 2012. Imports tend to have nearly all their sales in the retail market, though part of the difference may be having fewer truck sales. Nissan has the largest fleet share at 15% (85% retail), possibly partly due to the success of their commercial vans, but likely because of the Versa’s popularity in rental fleets (it combines a low price with a relatively large interior). Toyota was 90% retail, Honda 98%, and Hyundai-Kia 90%. The fleet sales leader for the year in pure numbers was Ford, with 674,000 fleet sales, but GM was close behind, with 673,300. Chrysler came in at 429,000; Toyota was the next largest, with half that number. Some fleet sales are desirable (many commercial truck sales, police cars, etc), while others are less so (near-cost sales to rental fleets). Increasing Chrysler’s retail share while reportedly increasing sales of police vehicles is likely an indication that the company has been getting more credibility among ordinary customers.
http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2013/01/chrysler-relying-less-on-fleet-sales
Don't think I'd use Allpar as a good reference. They have a Mopar bias and list no sources in the linked article. It all depends on the type of fleet. Given the fact that the F series dominates the "work" (fleet) market, I'd rather have that than the poseur market like the Ram. After all, those that want a truck for a truck will buy the one they see real work being done with rather than the Poseur-mobile.
From http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2013/01/chrysler-gains-popularity-among-real-people
Chrysler also had to increase incentives every quarter in 2012, not necessarily a good sign especially since they started higher than 2011.
That being said, I wonder if many Toyota buyers are like a coworker who likes to lease Hondas because they have been so reliable. No kidding, any car is reliable out to 45k or so...
From http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2013/01/chrysler-gains-popularity-among-real-people
Chrysler also had to increase incentives every quarter in 2012, not necessarily a good sign especially since they started higher than 2011.
That being said, I wonder if many Toyota buyers are like a coworker who likes to lease Hondas because they have been so reliable. No kidding, any car is reliable out to 45k or so...
Originally Posted By: itguy08
...any car is reliable out to 45k or so...
I'd say that *most* cars are reliable out to 45k or so...
We had a minivan that we traded off at 42k miles because it was nickle-and-diming me to death. And it was just off-warranty. I did some of the in-warranty repairs myself because the dealer was so poor. Brand of van is unimportant to this conversation (PM me if you are interested), but lemons are certainly still out there.
...any car is reliable out to 45k or so...
I'd say that *most* cars are reliable out to 45k or so...
We had a minivan that we traded off at 42k miles because it was nickle-and-diming me to death. And it was just off-warranty. I did some of the in-warranty repairs myself because the dealer was so poor. Brand of van is unimportant to this conversation (PM me if you are interested), but lemons are certainly still out there.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I'd say that *most* cars are reliable out to 45k or so...
We had a minivan that we traded off at 42k miles because it was nickle-and-diming me to death. And it was just off-warranty. I did some of the in-warranty repairs myself because the dealer was so poor. Brand of van is unimportant to this conversation (PM me if you are interested), but lemons are certainly still out there.
Interesting. Even my least reliable car waited to puke it's transmission till almost 60k.
I will say that with all the systems and parts in today's cars it is amazing that they routinely make it to 100k+ with few issues.
I'd say that *most* cars are reliable out to 45k or so...
We had a minivan that we traded off at 42k miles because it was nickle-and-diming me to death. And it was just off-warranty. I did some of the in-warranty repairs myself because the dealer was so poor. Brand of van is unimportant to this conversation (PM me if you are interested), but lemons are certainly still out there.
Interesting. Even my least reliable car waited to puke it's transmission till almost 60k.
I will say that with all the systems and parts in today's cars it is amazing that they routinely make it to 100k+ with few issues.
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Don't think I'd use Allpar as a good reference. They have a Mopar bias and list no sources in the linked article.
allpar is a great reference and of course a mopar site is going to be mopar biased, but lets not forget that allpar also owns and manages the toyoland website for toyota enthusiasts. seeing that allpar is also toyota biased i think the references apply. mike
Don't think I'd use Allpar as a good reference. They have a Mopar bias and list no sources in the linked article.
allpar is a great reference and of course a mopar site is going to be mopar biased, but lets not forget that allpar also owns and manages the toyoland website for toyota enthusiasts. seeing that allpar is also toyota biased i think the references apply. mike
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