TOYOTA HELP

[TEXDOG]

long time reader, first time post
have an 01 camry 3.0 v6 (sludge era)bought used,have run mobil 1 5w30 once and now barely into redline 5w30 run. no problems or indications of sludge but thinking about future expense and availability of redline. drive 20k/yr 90% hiway.
I need to get 6k ocis.
here are my ideas:

m1 10w30 with LC
delvac 1300 10w30
pennzoil HM 10w30 with LC (ht/hs 3.4)

i dont want to use a 40wt because this engine is so tight, does not use a drop of oil.
I am ready to hear your comments.

 

[EmbarkChief]

I would think you could safely hit 6K OCI's with M1 alone. Do a UOA of course.

 

[EmbarkChief]

Almost forgot:

WELCOME!!!

I couldn't get the sign to work...

 

[Tones]

Look at these results.

 

[BeltwayBandit]

The two preventative measures that seem to have garnered the greatest amount of consensus are:

1) use synthetic oil
2) check the PCV valve often and replace it at least once a year.

 

[Amkeer]

The highway miles will be easy on the synth plus you will be using a premium M1 product. I would say that you can safely go 6000-7000 miles then pull a UOA after a second interval of M1 using that mileage. Since you put 20000 miles on it a year the goal is to achieve 6 month, 10000 mile OCI. You may make it only the UOA will tell.

BTW you didn't tell us the miles on the vehicle?

Daily Drives:
-2003 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner XtraCab, 2.7 Liter , Mobil1 Synthetic 5w30.
ODO 10900Miles.
-1995 Toyota 4-Runner 3.0 V6, Mobil1 Synthetic 10w30.
ODO 91900 Miles.
http://community.webshots.com/user/amkeer

 

[TEXDOG]

72K ON THE CAR

 

[ekpolk]

The 1MZ V-6 seems to really like M1, although I got a really fantastic UOA result after running GC for 5k miles (with a K&N oil filter, no less). I posted that one over in the UOA section a couple months ago.

If you're really worried about how your engine was treated in the past, the front bank valve cover (head cover, in all the Toyota pubs) comes off relatively easily. The dealer had mine off when the car had between 25k and 30k miles (defective gasket). Having used mostly M1 (one fill of RP somewhere in the middle) the top of the engine was absolutely spotless. This near-painless procedure can both confirm no pre-existing sludge and the soundness of whatever you've been doing.

 

[Bruce T]

Since you're already running Red Line 5W30, the esters in the oil will make it a pretty good indicator of how dirty your engine is. If the faintly yellow oil (almost translucent) turns any darker than light brown by 1000 miles, then you might want to consider doing one or two Auto-Rx cleaning cycles before you select a regular oil.

M1 10W30 has posted good UOAs, but the thin 30W runs a little thrashy in Camry V-6s. I would personally choose a thicker 30W like Red Line 5W30 or GC 0W30. If you want to run a dino oil, then Valvoline SynPower 10W30 (Group III) has posted good UOAs. It will be interesting to see UOAs of the new Motorcraft 5W30 synthetic blend.

[ September 24, 2004, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Bruce T ]

 

[JohnBrowning]

TEXDOG, IF you want some piece of mind run a bottle of Auto-Rx through it. Then use Redline 5W30 and 10,000-12,000 mile oil change intervals. You can always run some LC for good measure if you like as well!

 

[Hirev]

I have one of those 3.0 V6 sludge motors in my 91 Toyota truck and yes its full of sludge. Still have and it still runs though. I bought it new and changed the Brand X 10w 30 dino oil out every 2800-3200 miles. It was not enough.

For years it got driven 15 plus miles each way to work so the oil got warmed up. At around 65,000 miles I noticed sludge build up on the inside of the oil cap. At 66,000 miles the head gasket went. And I was real shocked when I seen what it looked like with the valve covers off.

I now use Chevron Delo 15w 40w in the summer because its real loose and Chevron 5w 30 in the winter. Mostly because its not worthy of a good synthetic at its age. If I had it to do over again I would use a 5w 30 synthetic.

Another hint do not use the Fram oil filter in this motor. I started getting a bearing knock when starting it up on cold mornings below 30 Deg. F at around 75,000 miles. At the advice of my dad I stopped using Fram oil filters and the problem went away, go figure.

 

[Ken2]

Texdog,
If that was my car and I wanted to keep it for many more years, I'd do the two-bottle Auto-Rx cleaning following the sludge instructions, then use Schaeffer's 10w30 or 15w40 for 10,000 mile oil drain interval. If you use most other oils, Lube Control or the maintenance dose of Auto-Rx will keep the sludge at bay.

Valvoline's Australian web site recommends their 20W-50 oil for your engine.


Ken

 

[TC]

I'll be the ultimate boat rocker here and say I'd use dino or HDEO, changing it out at a bit less than the 6K intervals mentioned. This assumes one can monitor the valvetrain -- including any potential sludge/varnish build-up -- through the filler cap. Supposedly no more than 1% of those engines turn out to be "sludge monsters," not that such a number is acceptable. But you'd think it was 25% or more, judging by the reputation. If the valvetrain can be visually monitored, to me it's just another Japanese engine until/unless it starts to prove otherwise with the beginnings of gunk build-up, at which point I'd promptly switch to syn, assuming my engine was in the 1% crowd rather than the 99% crowd.

[ September 26, 2004, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: TC ]

 

[J. Thomas]

Also important with these sludge-vintage cars, keep all service records. Toyota has an 8-year unlimited mile policy to repair these engines if sludged, but will only do it if you can prove proper maintenance. If you change your own oil, you may be SOL.

 

[kenw]

My 97 v6 Camry (same engine) has about 162,000 on it now. I purchased it used in 1998 (15k miles) and have been doing 4-5k 10w30 (at ~140k moved to 10w40) dino for all that time.

It uses no oil (detectable between changes at least), has no discernable sludge and is quite tight compression-wise. No additives, no muss, no fuss, no "analysis". Just results.

I know of no one with significant sludge in those cars that maintained a 3-5k dino change interval (and can prove it). TMCs warranty extension was pretty much a PR move to squelch the issue (according to friends inside TMC/GST). The ones they reviewed could be proven easily to have been in excess of 10k OCI, but the bad PR, legal costs and such were not worth fighting.

Synthetic is certainly fine, but is not the magic bullet for the sludge issue on this engine that increased OCI is (TMC at the time recommended 7500k).

The abysmally scrawny filter size doesn't help matters, but i've never used an oversized one myself.

 

[J. Thomas]

Ken, what region of the U.S. do you live in?

In Florida it is a pretty common problem. I think these engines are tough on oil and when combined with high temperatures and humidity in the south, it means you are asking for trouble.

Wasn't Bob here doing some tests on one of these engines and seeing that the oil was really beaten up after only 3,000 miles?

I think Toyota's recommended oil changes of 5,000/7,500 miles is the big screw up.

 

[J. Thomas]

Well, I am new here and just noticed that the region is shown on the posts. I would expect Houston to have similar problems as Florida. People with Toyota aren't going to admit to the problem. You need to talk to some average Joes who followed Toyota's oil recommendations or to a non-dealer affiliated garage where they have seen a few of these. I don't think this is prevalent, but I am sure from my own experience and people I know that it is not some 0.1% fluke.

 

[ekpolk]

quote:

---

Originally posted by kenw:
{snip}
What is interesting is that some places lump the i4 into the fray as well, (TMC's extended "warranty" does include the i4 as i recall) but most of my sources seem to believe the i4 is pretty much a non-issue. But since (at least with the camry) the i4 sells about 3-4x that of the v6, if you lump the i4 and v6 together, and the i4 wasn't an issue, the total sludged would be significantly reduced. That may be where the 0.1% comes from, and if so it IS bogus.

---

Ken, from what I've heard, and personally seen, the 5S-FE I-4 engine also has significant sludge potential. It may not be as prone as the 1MZ V-6, but it's definitely a sludge player. I had a long discussion about this with my dealer's service manager, and he reported that they'd seen the I-4s with sludge also. To cap that off, while strolling around the dealership one day, I saw one myself. It was a 97 Camry CE 5-speed manual, with the hood open and the valve/head cover off. It was an awful mess. It looked like someone had packed dark chocolate cake frosting all over the top of the head and valve train. No need to live in constant fear, but if I have one of these cars, I'd still watch it and take good care of it.

 

[ekpolk]

quote:

---

Originally posted by TC:
I'll be the ultimate boat rocker here and say I'd use dino or HDEO, changing it out at a bit less than the 6K intervals mentioned. This assumes one can monitor the valvetrain -- including any potential sludge/varnish build-up -- through the filler cap. Supposedly no more than 1% of those engines turn out to be "sludge monsters," not that such a number is acceptable. But you'd think it was 25% or more, judging by the reputation. If the valvetrain can be visually monitored, to me it's just another Japanese engine until/unless it starts to prove otherwise with the beginnings of gunk build-up, at which point I'd promptly switch to syn, assuming my engine was in the 1% crowd rather than the 99% crowd.

---

Missed this one earlier. The problem is that you can't monitor through the oil filler opening. Toyota builds these engines (the V-6 anyway) with a baffle that completely blocks your view of the valve train and top of the head. Respectfully disagree -- I think these engines need aggressive, proactive maintenance aimed at keeping sludge from ever having a chance of starting.

 

[J. Thomas]

The 4 cyl engines from 1997 - 2001 are covered for repair under the Sludge Program while the 6 cyl. is from 1997 - 2002. You can find info that goes over the program (and also sludge problem in other makes) at http://www.autosafety.org.

I was reading through some older discussions here on the subject. Check this link and comments by Bob - attributes problem in the V-6 to "Higher levels of heat due to less air flow across the engines(also proven by the fact that the back O2 sensor fails before the front one, lower amounts of sump oil, longer drain recommendations than this engine design will allow using basic bulk type oil, and add driving conditions such as more stop and go"
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001098

Another interesting link is
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/reviews.aspx?modelid=1568&trimid=-1&src=VIP&tab=4&sub=0
where the Toyota engines in the subject models and years are shown to have significant engine problems related to sludge.