Toyota 1NZ-FE oil filter oversize application

[medunko]

Not convinced to use oversized filter and that with pre-filled with oil before to put the filter ….Dry start ….
I’m always using Mann filters and when changing oil another new filter, than I fill the oil to the upper mark and that works for me and for two Toyota’s.
p.s. my Yaris has always filled with 3.8 litres of oil and 8 years ago the car was in Toyota shop for general service. At home I noticed that Toyota technician was 4.5 litres. I call them for the reason of the overfill and they told me: “these engines 2sz fe are burning a lot of oil”. No need to mention that Yaris is not burning oil…

 

[Elkins45]

Many aftermarket filter makers (at least the big name ones) will still cover any damage done by using their filter, so using the specified filter in that case still has an advantage in that department.

I’ve always been highly skeptical that a filter maker would pay out a dime for an engine failure. There are so many ways to blame it on other factors. I’m happy to hear I’m wrong about that.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I’ve always been highly skeptical that a filter maker would pay out a dime for an engine failure. There are so many ways to blame it on other factors. I’m happy to hear I’m wrong about that.

If there is proof the oil filter caused the failure, the big name filter makers will pay for the damage. There have been a few instances posted on this board about that actually happening.

 

[Elkins45]

If there is proof the oil filter caused the failure, the big name filter makers will pay for the damage. There have been a few instances posted on this board about that actually happening.

How would you prove something like that other than an obvious catastrophic failure like the can splitting open?

 

[ZeeOSix]

How would you prove something like that other than an obvious catastrophic failure like the can splitting open?

It would have to be a major failure where the proof is obvious that it was caused by a failed oil filter. Just like any other root cause proof would be looked for on any engine failure, regardless of who's paying for the warranty or repair.

Yes, if the can crimped seal failed and the engine puked all the oil out and caused major engine damage, that would be one example. Of if say the media tore and sent a bunch into the engine and cause lack of lubrication for a bearing, etc. If that torn media was found inside the engine, it would be proof that the media torn from the filter was the cause.

 

[CharBaby]

Right, but you're the only one that knows it needs the extra oil. You take it to anyone else they wouldn't know it needed the extra oil so it would be low oil in that situation. For all means I'm not against doing it altogether just when it comes to outsiders "Not Knowing" is what I don't like about it. Mainly gets to be an issue when you look at the manual & it says 4 qts but it needs 5 qts but the new owner wouldn't know BUT everyone can remedy that by what I mentioned above to do in those situations. I don't blame you for wanting more oil in a low capacity sump. That could allow you to run out a bit longer drain intervals in theory.

I haven’t had anyone change my oil but myself

 

[bullwinkle]

The 1NZFE 1.5 has such a tiny sump that anything would help, believe the xB is under 4 quarts even with the 3600 on it. Bigger filter=more flow, more dirt holding capacity, longer service life. Just got to watch out for that rust...

 

[ZeeOSix]

Bigger filter=more flow ...

Only if the oil pump hits pressure relief, which is a rare occurrence.

 

[medunko]

Yes, indeed Yaris has a tiny sump and the oil is getting dark very soon especially when you drive short distances, city traffic a lot of idling but in the manual is well written about “severe” use of the car: change the oil 6 months or 3 k miles. For 3 k miles I’m not sure because I change oil and the filter October and April.
I think the quality or the filter is more important that his size.
P.s. I prefer Mann filters cause the have bigger holes ( helping the flow) than the original. Of course with original, wix or bosh, Mann, heingst you cannot be wrong.
I have some suspicion about fram silver (20 k miles protection) because the oil was so pure after 6 months , so unusual for Yaris but I put some oil: valvoline maxlife 5w30! C3 with a lot of EU approvals.

 

[AutoMechanic]

Interesting I had never thought of trying one that big. However the F1/ Fram 4386 which is just a bit longer than the N1 works there too and that also means the D1/G2 filter would work it’s the same circumference as the D3 just shorter and all the gasket and mating surfaces are the same size on the modern Toyota spin ons. One of my cars calls for an F1 and one for an N1 and the other Toyota is a cartridge. The one that calls for the N1 I use the F1 on and just put a little bit of extra oil in it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I prefer Mann filters cause the have bigger holes ( helping the flow) than the original.

Larger holes don't increase oil flow - but might slightly decrease delta-p across the filter. Reason: Positive displacement oil pump.

I have some suspicion about fram silver (20 k miles protection) because the oil was so pure after 6 months , so unusual for Yaris ...

Suspicious why?

 

[medunko]

Larger holes don't increase oil flow - but might slightly decrease delta-p across the filter. Reason: Positive displacement oil pump.

Suspicious why?

The oil stays clean, not darks as usual but the reason I think - is Acea C3 mid saps oil combination with fram silver which I put for the first time. Both has designed for longer interval…

 

[Mewbs]

Yes, indeed Yaris has a tiny sump and the oil is getting dark very soon especially when you drive short distances, city traffic a lot of idling but in the manual is well written about “severe” use of the car: change the oil 6 months or 3 k miles. For 3 k miles I’m not sure because I change oil and the filter October and April.
I think the quality or the filter is more important that his size.
P.s. I prefer Mann filters cause the have bigger holes ( helping the flow) than the original. Of course with original, wix or bosh, Mann, heingst you cannot be wrong.
I have some suspicion about fram silver (20 k miles protection) because the oil was so pure after 6 months , so unusual for Yaris but I put some oil: valvoline maxlife 5w30! C3 with a lot of EU approvals.

My 2012 Yaris doesn't burn oil as well but unlike your situation, the vehicle has spent most of its life on the highway driving fast (at this point I'm more worried about the transmission life than the engine even though I recently drain and fill new ATF at 120K miles). I use the same Valvoline Full Synthetic Max Life 5w-30 oil and the oil never gets dark on the dipstick every 5k miles, it remains a clear amber hue while brand new oil remains translucent clear gold until reaching around 2000-3000 miles that it slightly starts to change in color.

I purchased the car knowing the 1NZ-FE is one of Toyota's blessed engines, a classic and very reliable design if well maintained can go really high hundreds of miles on original parts (not counting common maintenance items like spark plugs, serpentine belt, PCV, water pump etc.)

The 1NZFE 1.5 has such a tiny sump that anything would help, believe the xB is under 4 quarts even with the 3600 on it. Bigger filter=more flow, more dirt holding capacity, longer service life. Just got to watch out for that rust...

I noticed a difference since I started using high capacity filter and going beyond 4 quart fills, the oil doesn't get as dark reaching the oil change interval limit mileage. So the extra capacity is likely doing something. I don't have the money and time to invest in a periodic oil analysis to back it up so it could just be placebo.

Anyways I should've taken the time to measure the engine flange union center distance to the wall radius of the upper sump to see if I can try fitting a Fram Endurance FE8A big boy filter but given that its longer than the 3600 and hair wider, thicker gasket. You'd risk extending below the oil pan. Of course i'd be a waste of money at that point since I think the FE/FS3600 filters are large and plenty durable enough to last a year or more on depending on the amount of miles and oil change intervals done annually.

 

[medunko]

My Yaris is eu made 2sz fe, 2006 , I think is daihatsu engine, the sump is 3.2 litres.
I had a thread here describing gasoline smell and dark, diesel Color of the oil after 100 miles of city driving with acea a3/b4 , 229.5.
Mine or father’s Yaris, I changed the oil , small repairs etc. Offtopic : imidiadtly after 12 rust proof garantee , the car started to rust badly. I think that’s the real problem.

 

[bullwinkle]

My 2012 Yaris doesn't burn oil as well but unlike your situation, the vehicle has spent most of its life on the highway driving fast (at this point I'm more worried about the transmission life than the engine even though I recently drain and fill new ATF at 120K miles). I use the same Valvoline Full Synthetic Max Life 5w-30 oil and the oil never gets dark on the dipstick every 5k miles, it remains a clear amber hue while brand new oil remains translucent clear gold until reaching around 2000-3000 miles that it slightly starts to change in color.

I purchased the car knowing the 1NZ-FE is one of Toyota's blessed engines, a classic and very reliable design if well maintained can go really high hundreds of miles on original parts (not counting common maintenance items like spark plugs, serpentine belt, PCV, water pump etc.)


I noticed a difference since I started using high capacity filter and going beyond 4 quart fills, the oil doesn't get as dark reaching the oil change interval limit mileage. So the extra capacity is likely doing something. I don't have the money and time to invest in a periodic oil analysis to back it up so it could just be placebo.

Anyways I should've taken the time to measure the engine flange union center distance to the wall radius of the upper sump to see if I can try fitting a Fram Endurance FE8A big boy filter but given that its longer than the 3600 and hair wider, thicker gasket. You'd risk extending below the oil pan. Of course i'd be a waste of money at that point since I think the FE/FS3600 filters are large and plenty durable enough to last a year or more on depending on the amount of miles and oil change intervals done annually.

The FE8A/FL-1A size won't fit, the diameter is too big (although the flange size is the same). We had Scion xAs with this engine that were beat hard & neglected make it over 200,000 miles (322K+ KM) with basically zero engine issues on cheap bulk oil & filters (when the drivers remembered to have it changed-not often). My xB will soldier on, with its' bad paint, leaky A/C, and slightly slipping clutch-now at 123K, 18 1/2 years old-engine shows no signs of slowing down nor any oil consumption! As the Daihatsu built body slowly disintegrates around it...

 

[bullwinkle]

Only if the oil pump hits pressure relief, which is a rare occurrence.

A larger filter decreases dP when all else remains the same-more media means more room, more passages for oil to pass through (& more headroom for potential blockage, not that an average 1NZFE generates much debris anyway). Surprised the mfrs. haven't figured out that the oil pump working less hard=some microscopic MPG increase!

 

[bullwinkle]

My Yaris is eu made 2sz fe, 2006 , I think is daihatsu engine, the sump is 3.2 litres.
I had a thread here describing gasoline smell and dark, diesel Color of the oil after 100 miles of city driving with acea a3/b4 , 229.5.
Mine or father’s Yaris, I changed the oil , small repairs etc. Offtopic : imidiadtly after 12 rust proof garantee , the car started to rust badly. I think that’s the real problem.

Don't think it's that big-likely a 1.3 L (although they also made a 1.0 & 1.5). Rust is an issue-I've always taken the xB to the self service car wash (or at least a garden hose) to the underside after a snow or ice event here. There's a little rust on certain parts, but the body is doing OK so far. I think we were lucky here in the USA not to get the 2SZFE here, they don't seem as tough as the 1NZFE.

 

[ZeeOSix]

A larger filter decreases dP when all else remains the same-more media means more room, more passages for oil to pass through (& more headroom for potential blockage, not that an average 1NZFE generates much debris anyway). Surprised the mfrs. haven't figured out that the oil pump working less hard=some microscopic MPG increase!

As mentioned, reducing filter dP isn't the same as "increasing flow" (ref post 28). If the pump never hits pressure relief, then the pump output flow will not be reduced (all other factors being constant). Yes, if the filter dP increases a few PSI, then the pump output pressure (at the pump outet) will also increase a few PSI. If you run the hydraulic mechanical HP equation you'll see that an increase of a couple PSI in pump output is a super small increase of needed HP (like in the x/100ths HP). You'll never see any MPG change from just the impact of an oil filter - there are too many other much larger factors involved.

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

I've been using the YZDD3 Toyota oil filter on my 04 Camry V6 for a number of years. Cost about the same as the YZDD1. Haven't got a clue as if using a bigger oil filter does anything. Probably doesn't. DENSO all the way.

 

[Mewbs]

The FE8A/FL-1A size won't fit, the diameter is too big (although the flange size is the same). We had Scion xAs with this engine that were beat hard & neglected make it over 200,000 miles (322K+ KM) with basically zero engine issues on cheap bulk oil & filters (when the drivers remembered to have it changed-not often). My xB will soldier on, with its' bad paint, leaky A/C, and slightly slipping clutch-now at 123K, 18 1/2 years old-engine shows no signs of slowing down nor any oil consumption! As the Daihatsu built body slowly disintegrates around it...

Good to know! If you have some examples of filter corrosion, would like to see them posted for reference too. Specially on the 3600 sized ones. I live on the west coast so snow is fairly nonexistent unless you go up the mountains during the winter months.