Too much ZDDP?

[vo_marz]

grabbed a bottle of redline break in ad decided to play home chemist...

mixed 3ML to each litre of MO on my ride.

wala, instant (?) results, errr...

just a quieter ride actually...

fast forward to a week ago and after an OC

added the same dosage ...

and my ride feels dumbed downed.

Too much ZDDP ?

 

[VR1]

If you have a flat tappet 1200 min if you have a roller cam SN oil will be just fine. I would drain and get you either a high properly mixed zddp oil like Valvoline VR1 or Royal Purple if not then run a regular conventional and call it a day. Don't add a bunch of ZDDP you take away from your add pack if you are not careful let a chemist do it for you and use one blended in the oil already. Remember oil additives in cans or bottles are snake oils and do more harm than good. If the product was that good it would have it in the oil already.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: VR1
Remember oil additives in cans or bottles are snake oils and do more harm than good. If the product was that good it would have it in the oil already.


RL break-in additive is far from a snake oil. RL is one of the most well respected companies here. OP contact Dave at RL via their website and discuss your concerns with him, he'll set you straight.

 

[Loobed]

Originally Posted By: vo_marz
grabbed a bottle of redline break in ad decided to play home chemist...

mixed 3ML to each litre of MO on my ride.

wala, instant (?) results, errr...

just a quieter ride actually...

fast forward to a week ago and after an OC

added the same dosage ...

and my ride feels dumbed downed.

Too much ZDDP ?



When you say ride, do you mean motorcycle or car?

You first say it made your engine quieter, than the second time you used it you say it was dumbed down. Do you mean you got less performance, or the noise came back? I highly doubt the ZDDP alone caused a decrease in performance. You are in the UK, so I am not sure if you have a change in gas formulation at different times of the year which would dumb down your ride. You might have bumped a wire loose while changing the oil. Depending on where your oil filter is located, you could have damaged the O2 sensor. On 4 cylinder cars, the oil filter is in front next to the exhaust and O2 sensor. You could have also knocked a vacuum line loose or damaged a brittle spark plug wire. I don't know. I am just throwing out guesses. If all else fails, you could change the oil without adding ZDDP.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I've felt high ZDDP oil give me a "putty on the cyl wall" feeling. So I was onto the midsaps+Moly bandwagon w/ FS and then along came GF-5 and the BIG moly be gone except for certain high mileage oils.

 

[JHZR2]

dumbed down? Maybe ARCO is on to something, but I just dont know... Cant imagine you bumped up THAT much if adding 3mL/L.

It is always smart to do a VOA if playing chemist...

 

[vo_marz]

its a single cylinder bike flat tappet , carbed,

and yeah, it feels like

"putty on the cylinders " feel on the 2nd dosage.

its still less noisy but less rev-happy as well

its effin' revvy on the 1st dosage thou.

bummer.

 

[Papa Bear]

A Tiger Cub ??...

 

[VR1]

Well to me you shoudn't have to add to what you already have. Think about it for a second? Would you add more sugar to your Coke when it already has a [censored] load in it? Its no different I just can't see if Redline or any oil for that matter if it was so good why do you need to add extra even if its for the same oil company its redundant if you ask me and wasteful. You can flame all you want I'm just sayin.

 

[friendly_jacek]

I remember someone (was it johnbrowning?) run straight SLOB in his Camry. He said it was very quiet.

 

[Radman]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I've felt high ZDDP oil give me a "putty on the cyl wall" feeling.

Feelings, woo woo woo feelings...

I have never had a motor oil give me "feelings". Perhaps I am just insensitive.

 

[vo_marz]

ah it cleared up after 100KM's .

friend did the same experiment and its the same...

100KM to "break-in" LOL

pretty zippy now.

 

[Gokhan]

ZDDP used alone is definitely well known to increase friction.

When ZDDP is mixed with moly, both the friction is reduced and the antiwear properties of ZDDP are enhanced as well. So, ZDDP + moly is win - win for break-in, antiwear, extreme-pressure, and friction-reduction purposes.

You might want to try to add some moly additive (LubroMoly) or use an oil that has moly (for example Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 or Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40) in your next oil change.

But, then, too much moly would cause your clutch to slip; so, be careful. You should be safe with both Rotella and Delvac though. I don't know what is the safe level of LubroMoly for your clutch.

 

[vo_marz]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
ZDDP used alone is definitely well known to increase friction.

When ZDDP is mixed with moly, both the friction is reduced and the antiwear properties of ZDDP are enhanced as well. So, ZDDP + moly is win - win for break-in, antiwear, extreme-pressure, and friction-reduction purposes.

You might want to try to add some moly additive (LubroMoly) or use an oil that has moly (for example Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 or Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40) in your next oil change.

But, then, too much moly would cause your clutch to slip; so, be careful. You should be safe with both Rotella and Delvac though. I don't know what is the safe level of LubroMoly for your clutch.


thanks for the protip!!

 

[steve20]

so---you are saying major brand oil companies who do not use moly in their formulation, are producing oil which causes more friction because they have the normal ZDDP package???

How much sense does that make?

 

[friendly_jacek]

This is a good question. As soon as I wrapped my mind around how the ZDDP and moly layers work together, moly disappeared from most oils. Maybe Boron has similar effects in lower concentrations?

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: steve20
so---you are saying major brand oil companies who do not use moly in their formulation, are producing oil which causes more friction because they have the normal ZDDP package???

How much sense does that make?

Moly is not the only friction modifier available for motor-oil blenders. The formulations you mentioned would have to contain other types of friction modifiers to decrease the engine friction in order to increase the fuel economy.

 

[steve20]

doesn't really answer the question about your original statement ZDDP alone causes increased friction---I also read the article you pulled the quote from

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: steve20
doesn't really answer the question about your original statement ZDDP alone causes increased friction---I also read the article you pulled the quote from

Below is detailed scientific knowledge from the paper "The history and mechanisms of ZDDP, H. Spikes, Tribology Section, Department of Mechanical Engineering, Imperial College, London, Tribology Letters, Vol. 17, No. 3, October 2004."

 

[vo_marz]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: steve20
doesn't really answer the question about your original statement ZDDP alone causes increased friction---I also read the article you pulled the quote from

Below is detailed scientific knowledge from the paper "The history and mechanisms of ZDDP, H. Spikes, Tribology Section, Department of Mechanical Engineering, Imperial College, London, Tribology Letters, Vol. 17, No. 3, October 2004."

so according to the paper , I only need to "COAT" the engine with an excess of ZDDP for the 1st time and just add virgin RL 5W40 in?

gonna try it on my next OCI. ^^