Time to build mama a new gaming rig

[KrisZ]

The more I read, the more I think the 14900K is a better performer for the newest games that can use the additional cores. But as always, the GPU is likely the bottlneck here. Since I've been down pretty hard with shingles, I've not done anything on the computer front.

The 14900k is a better all round CPU, as the 7800x3d is a pure gaming CPU, that is favoring single core performance and cache, as that's what most games still utilize.

However, as you noted, that is slowly changing. More and more games start utilizing more threads and cores and I have a feeling the AMDs gaming x3d CPUs may start to fall behind in those.

 

[BrainThicknessVariation]

Using anything but a Ryzen 7800x3d in a gaming machine is a mistake right now imo.

Very solid, for the price.

 

[proveitwithdata]

The 14900k is a better all round CPU, as the 7800x3d is a pure gaming CPU, that is favoring single core performance and cache, as that's what most games still utilize.

However, as you noted, that is slowly changing. More and more games start utilizing more threads and cores and I have a feeling the AMDs gaming x3d CPUs may start to fall behind in those.

thats really odd, in years past thats what intel was known for, superior single core performance per watt over amd. Times have changed i guess

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

The 14900k is a better all round CPU, as the 7800x3d is a pure gaming CPU, that is favoring single core performance and cache, as that's what most games still utilize.

Not really. The i9 is heinously inefficient from a power and thermal standpoint.

However, as you noted, that is slowly changing. More and more games start utilizing more threads and cores and I have a feeling the AMDs gaming x3d CPUs may start to fall behind in those.

This was true like 10-15 years ago, not so much anymore. There’s been a point of diminishing returns at the 6c/12t threshold for years now. Much of any extra gaming performance observed in higher core count chips is due to the extra cache they contain.

The problem is that the higher core count chips need to downclock cores more aggressively to manage thermals.

For gaming, 8c/16t is fine and will remain so for at least the lifetime if the platform. Not to mention the drop-in upgrade ability of the AM5 platform through 2026.

For this application, right now, anything but the 7800X3D is really unwise. If anything, it’s the extra V-cache that will keep the X3D series more viable into the future than anything else.

It is funny to me to see people get as hung up on core count as they once did frequency.

 

[proveitwithdata]

And for those who like indepth market reviews gamer nexus is pretty dang good.

 

[KrisZ]

It is funny to me to see people get as hung up on core count as they once did frequency.

What's funny is people getting hung up on brands or YouTube benchmarks and then using words like "unwise", trying to make a mountain of of an ant hill
What's "unwise" going with intel? Even if you loose few fps, so what? OP's machine will be capable most likely of triple digit fps, so it makes zero real world difference.
But if you start watching youtubers making a big deal out of few percentage differences, then I guess it would make sense.

And btw, I built two AMD systems last year, one for me and one for my son. Mid range and AM4, but I could've went with intel 12th gen for pretty much the same price. I even have AMD gpus. No issues to report.

There used to be a time when AMD was a clear choice, then Intel took that spot. Competition is great, but this generation, it's pretty much a toss unless you want to start focusing at minute details/differences and making a big deal out of them.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

What's funny is people getting hung up on brands or YouTube benchmarks and then using words like "unwise", trying to make a mountain of of an ant hill
What's "unwise" going with intel? Even if you loose few fps, so what? OP's machine will be capable most likely of triple digit fps, so it makes zero real world difference.
But if you start watching youtubers making a big deal out of few percentage differences, then I guess it would make sense.

And btw, I built two AMD systems last year, one for me and one for my son. Mid range and AM4, but I could've went with intel 12th gen for pretty much the same price. I even have AMD gpus. No issues to report.

There used to be a time when AMD was a clear choice, then Intel took that spot. Competition is great, but this generation, it's pretty much a toss unless you want to start focusing at minute details/differences and making a big deal out of them.

Post in thread 'Time to build mama a new gaming rig'
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/time-to-build-mama-a-new-gaming-rig.377985/post-6773843

 

[KrisZ]

Post in thread 'Time to build mama a new gaming rig'
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/time-to-build-mama-a-new-gaming-rig.377985/post-6773843

This is how I see your points:

• The 7800X3D has nearly triple the energy efficiency under load.
  1. While triple efficiency might sound impressive, total system power consumption is about 30% more on 14900k
  2. Nobody cares about 100 watts one way or the other and people that do won't get a system like that to begin with.
• Raw gaming performance is actually better on the 7800X3D when the GPU is not the bottleneck - this means there’s more headroom after upgrading GPU.
  1. Why would you buy a top of the line CPU/GPU and then game at a low resolution where the GPU is not the bottleneck? Who on earth would do that except maybe a small group that's into competitive games? You buy this caliber of hardware to game at max resolution and max visual settings.
  2. It is very unlikely that the next generation of GPUs will bottleneck the 14900k, probably the gen after that won't be able to do that either.
• The AM5 platform will be receiving new CPUs into 2026, meaning drop-in CPU upgrades will be possible without changing motherboards.
  1. People that buy top of the line stuff don't care about "cheap" path to upgrades. They buy new systems.
• The 14900k costs more.
  1. The only valid point, but at this price point few hundred bucks won't make or break the bank. People at this price bracket have enough disposable income where they don't have to nickle and dime their builds.

 

[Cujet]

Not really. The i9 is heinously inefficient from a power and thermal standpoint.

For me, I'd simply choose a viable CPU cooler. I've done the water cooled thing in the past with good results.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

This is how I see your points:

• The 7800X3D has nearly triple the energy efficiency under load.
  1. While triple efficiency might sound impressive, total system power consumption is about 30% more on 14900k
  2. Nobody cares about 100 watts one way or the other and people that do won't get a system like that to begin with.

That’s roughly $50/year.

Why would you buy a top of the line CPU/GPU and then game at a low resolution where the GPU is not the bottleneck? Who on earth would do that except maybe a small group that's into competitive games? You buy this caliber of hardware to game at max resolution and max visual settings.

This was already discussed; benchmarking is done at lower resolutions to make sure the CPU is the bottleneck. When the GPU is the bottleneck, CPU performance becomes difficult and statistical errors overprint on the results.

Lower res with a modern GPU is an approximation of higher res with a future GPU.

1. It is very unlikely that the next generation of GPUs will bottleneck the 14900k, probably the gen after that won't be able to do that either.

Speculation. It is rumored the next Gen of nvidia GPUs will offer a 2x leap.

1. The AM5 platform will be receiving new CPUs into 2026, meaning drop-in CPU upgrades will be possible without changing motherboards.
   1. People that buy top of the line stuff don't care about "cheap" path to upgrades. They buy new systems.

• The 14900k costs more.
  1. The only valid point, but at this price point few hundred bucks won't make or break the bank. People at this price bracket have enough disposable income where they don't have to nickle and dime their builds.

Well, I’d point out that spending more and getting less is actually something everyone cares about regardless of income. And high earners do care about their time. Changing motherboards (and often reinstalling OS) is more time consuming.

 

[Pew]

For me, I'd simply choose a viable CPU cooler. I've done the water cooled thing in the past with good results.

I've always been an air cooled guy but the vast range of AIO water coolers are amazing now and they make it easier and neater to work inside the case.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

For me, I'd simply choose a viable CPU cooler. I've done the water cooled thing in the past with good results.

That is a requirement for any high end CPU.

 

[KrisZ]

I'm going to address these two as the other points are really not worth discussing because they are a matter of opinion.

This was already discussed; benchmarking is done at lower resolutions to make sure the CPU is the bottleneck. When the GPU is the bottleneck, CPU performance becomes difficult and statistical errors overprint on the results.

Lower res with a modern GPU is an approximation of higher res with a future GPU.

You seem to be so worried about the future performance, but the differences are only noticeable in benchmarks.
Here are some examples of AMD CPUs going back four generations on rtx4090. It is almost a guarantee that if you didn't see the FPS numbers, you would not notice any gaming performance difference while playing these games.

All this talk about CPU bottlenecking is just silly. It's good content for youtubers and manufacturers. It pushes gullible people into spending more money or upgrading sooner. In real world, it's hardly an issue.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

I'm going to address these two as the other points are really not worth discussing because they are a matter of opinion.

You seem to be so worried about the future performance, but the differences are only noticeable in benchmarks.
Here are some examples of AMD CPUs going back four generations on rtx4090. It is almost a guarantee that if you didn't see the FPS numbers, you would not notice any gaming performance difference while playing these games.

All this talk about CPU bottlenecking is just silly. It's good content for youtubers and manufacturers. It pushes gullible people into spending more money or upgrading sooner. In real world, it's hardly an issue.

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The 7800X3D is the better product for a gaming computer right now, because:

• It performs better
• It uses less power
• It costs less
• It sits on a more upgradable platform

No single bullet above is a tremendously huge benefit, nor will every bullet be important for everyone, but when considered altogether it is clear the 7800X3D is a better product for the gaming. It is not contentious to anyone who has looked at the facts.

I don’t know what the aim here is anymore except for complaining YouTube for some reason. You have offered no fact-based reasons to pick the 14900k and have dedicated repeated posts which just amount an un-cited contrarian opinion to fact-based reasoning.

It’s funny now you’re talking about wasting money when before you were saying that the money doesn’t matter.

 

[KrisZ]

I bring up youtube because you're regurgitating their talking points. Most of that stuff doesn't matter to an average user.

My opinion is based on the specifics highlighted by the OP. It doesn't necessarily mean I would buy the same hardware.
And here is the original premise:

Here we are, early 2024 and mama's i9 9900KF/2080 4K gaming rig is about 3-4 years old.

- old platform that was top tier with no upgrades in between to the CPU and GPU. I don't think OP is interested in upgrades.
- OP states he prefers Intel and Nvidia
- 4K gaming. The CPU choice simply doesn't matter here.

But here you are making statements like "unwise" and making it seem like OP will miss on these great future updates. History tells us he won't. And by the time there is actually a good leap in performance, he will do what he wants to do now, get a brand new system.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

I bring up youtube because you're regurgitating their talking points. Most of that stuff doesn't matter to an average user.

Is this the new thing? Accuse others’ opinions of coming from YouTube? This is basically ad hominem. My opinions are based on my own reasoning and my own knowledge, and I’ve demonstrated that here.

My opinion is based on the specifics highlighted by the OP. It doesn't necessarily mean I would buy the same hardware.
And here is the original premise:

- old platform that was top tier with no upgrades in between to the CPU and GPU. I don't think OP is interested in upgrades.
- OP states he prefers Intel and Nvidia

Yes, and I believe that’s a mistake. I have given sources backing up why that is.

- 4K gaming. The CPU choice simply doesn't matter here.

Yes, it does. Games have scaling settings now. Here is a relevant anecdote: I recently upgraded a tertiary system from a 3900x to a 5800x which has a 1080ti. It had a noticeable, measurable real-world improvement at 4k resolution because modern games have GPU scaling settings like FSR which alleviate GPU bottlenecks at high res.

Moreover, if the CPU choice “doesn’t matter” (it does) then why jump down my throat so hard on my recommendations to help save time, money, power, etc?

But here you are making statements like "unwise" and making it seem like OP will miss on these great future updates. History tells us he won't. And by the time there is actually a good leap in performance, he will do what he wants to do now, get a brand new system.

He could save time and money by going a different route. I’m just trying to help.

 

[KrisZ]

Is this the new thing? Accuse others’ opinions of coming from YouTube? This is basically ad hominem…

Relax, it was just an observation not an accusation.

I’m just trying to help.

Not saying you aren’t or that your advice is wrong.
But you make it seem like the 7800x3d is a great leap above the 14900k, where at the end of the day both will deliver excellent performance. That’s my point.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

you make it seem like the 7800x3d is a great leap above the 14900k

Did I? Or did I point out some factors in addition to performance that you had not considered?

 

[KrisZ]

Did I? Or did I point out some factors in addition to performance that you had not considered?

Nah, I’m aware of all of your points.

But maybe we’re talking about two different types of computer owners. I think you’re taking the perspective of an owner that wants to have the latest and greatest, the fastest and changes hardware often. These tend to be more obsessive about the things you mention.

I’m taking the perspective of an owner that gets top tier hardware, but then leaves it alone for several generations and just replaces the whole system. These people tend to stay with whatever brands worked for them in the past, even if they are not “the best” because they don’t chase FPS, they just want a good gaming experience.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

I’m taking the perspective of an owner that gets top tier hardware

These people tend to stay with whatever brands worked for them in the past, even if they are not “the best”

I can’t speak to self-contradictory statements.

A 3x power efficiency improvement is a big benefit to someone who keeps a system for a long time.