Thin oil in an older car.
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Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Shannow
So you've got the Caribean owner's manual ???
Don't forget that some places in the Caribbean are US territories. I don't think they had different oil recommendation for different regions back then. I can't imagine any modern engine like the OP's recommending nothing but 20W-50, regardless of the region.
But to use your own turn of logic, the US also owns Alaska, so a generic manual has to deal with that too...and 20W anything isn't good there.
So in short, you DON'T have the OP's owner's manual...you could have just said it.
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
So, are you claiming that if CAFE didn't exist, all oils in the world would be 20W-50, 25W-50, 20W-60, and 25W-60?
There you go again...where did you even get the idea that I'm claiming anything of the sort...oh yeah, the same place you always do when you put words in my mouth.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
So you've got the Caribean owner's manual ???
Don't forget that some places in the Caribbean are US territories. I don't think they had different oil recommendation for different regions back then. I can't imagine any modern engine like the OP's recommending nothing but 20W-50, regardless of the region.
But to use your own turn of logic, the US also owns Alaska, so a generic manual has to deal with that too...and 20W anything isn't good there.
So in short, you DON'T have the OP's owner's manual...you could have just said it.
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
So, are you claiming that if CAFE didn't exist, all oils in the world would be 20W-50, 25W-50, 20W-60, and 25W-60?
There you go again...where did you even get the idea that I'm claiming anything of the sort...oh yeah, the same place you always do when you put words in my mouth.
I don't know why you are arguing over nothing. It's the factory manual for the same very low power density (only 155 HP out of 2.4 L) engine and obviously Nissan 240SX didn't wear out any worse in US than the rest of the world. Do you honestly believe that Nissan only recommended 20W-50, not even 15W-40, for cars in sold in Caribbean, which is by the way not even a country but a whole region, while it recommended 5W-30 for all ambient temperatures, which includes the Caribbean temperatures, but also allowed up to 20W-50 in Japan and USA? That's what your post implied and that's why I made that joke. Even if you find the "Caribbean" manual, there will be thinner grades in there as well and the chart is probably identical to the US chart as I said.
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Give Pennzoil Platinum 10W30 a go.
From my experience these engines certainly like thinner oil much better: it results in a lot better low-throttle response, smoother idle, and a lot better fuel economy.
However, if your valve seals are bad, you should run a thicker oil. Before I replaced my valve seals, my engine was consuming 1 qt/1,000 mi with 15W-40 and 2.5 qt/1,000 mi with 5W-30. After I replaced them, it's been practically zero and it's regardless of if I run 0W-20 or 15W-40.
So, run 5W-30 or 10W-30 if you don't have bad valve seals; run 15W-40 or 20W-50 if you do have bad valve seals. Don't lose sleep over something trivial like this. It's not really an old engine -- it's a modern engine, and it's very low power density and runs on gasoline, not diesel. There is no turbo. You live in a very mild climate where the temperature never rises above 30 °C and falls below 20 °C. Therefore, any modern oil, thin or thick, conventional or synthetic, is absolutely fine in your engine.
However, if your valve seals are bad, you should run a thicker oil. Before I replaced my valve seals, my engine was consuming 1 qt/1,000 mi with 15W-40 and 2.5 qt/1,000 mi with 5W-30. After I replaced them, it's been practically zero and it's regardless of if I run 0W-20 or 15W-40.
So, run 5W-30 or 10W-30 if you don't have bad valve seals; run 15W-40 or 20W-50 if you do have bad valve seals. Don't lose sleep over something trivial like this. It's not really an old engine -- it's a modern engine, and it's very low power density and runs on gasoline, not diesel. There is no turbo. You live in a very mild climate where the temperature never rises above 30 °C and falls below 20 °C. Therefore, any modern oil, thin or thick, conventional or synthetic, is absolutely fine in your engine.
you know what, im sorry i asked this question.
but most of you all act like kids, i could imagine if someone says otherwise at the job place. Most of you all have a failure attitude.
To those who had positive information, i thank you.
but most of you all act like kids, i could imagine if someone says otherwise at the job place. Most of you all have a failure attitude.
To those who had positive information, i thank you.
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Originally Posted By: Nissan101
you know what, im sorry i asked this question.
Don't be. Generally speaking, the simplest answer is a 5w-30 A3/B4 will work in more vehicles than it won't. When you get to something like a 5w-30 ILSAC grade, that's probably acceptable for most Japanese vehicles out there, but one should still exhibit caution.
When you say it specifies 20w-50, of course, I'm gathering that it doesn't specify 20w-50 only, either.
you know what, im sorry i asked this question.
Don't be. Generally speaking, the simplest answer is a 5w-30 A3/B4 will work in more vehicles than it won't. When you get to something like a 5w-30 ILSAC grade, that's probably acceptable for most Japanese vehicles out there, but one should still exhibit caution.
When you say it specifies 20w-50, of course, I'm gathering that it doesn't specify 20w-50 only, either.
Originally Posted By: Nissan101
you know what, im sorry i asked this question.
but most of you all act like kids, i could imagine if someone says otherwise at the job place. Most of you all have a failure attitude.
To those who had positive information, i thank you.
Really?? Most??
I just went through all posts and everyone seems to have answered to you with good faith. No one called you names but you just called "most" names.
On the other hand, you've never answered people's questions to you about what engine it was and what the actual recommendation was. I had to figure out what engine you had using your signature line and Wikipedia and then Google the oil chart.
Last but not least, you don't even live in a hot area. US gets hot but Caribbean, where it never goes above 30 C/86 F, does not get hot as far as lubrication is concerned.
you know what, im sorry i asked this question.
but most of you all act like kids, i could imagine if someone says otherwise at the job place. Most of you all have a failure attitude.
To those who had positive information, i thank you.
Really?? Most??
I just went through all posts and everyone seems to have answered to you with good faith. No one called you names but you just called "most" names.
On the other hand, you've never answered people's questions to you about what engine it was and what the actual recommendation was. I had to figure out what engine you had using your signature line and Wikipedia and then Google the oil chart.
Last but not least, you don't even live in a hot area. US gets hot but Caribbean, where it never goes above 30 C/86 F, does not get hot as far as lubrication is concerned.
Originally Posted By: Nissan101
Nope SR20, and it states no to 5w30.
Interesting that it rules out the 5W30, then includes it, and 10W30 as preferable.
I'd follow Garak's advice, and use an A3/B4 30 grade...or just throw in the towel and go 15W40 for cost effectiveness.
There's no need for 20W50 IMO for nearly anything (note nearly).
Nope SR20, and it states no to 5w30.
Interesting that it rules out the 5W30, then includes it, and 10W30 as preferable.
I'd follow Garak's advice, and use an A3/B4 30 grade...or just throw in the towel and go 15W40 for cost effectiveness.
There's no need for 20W50 IMO for nearly anything (note nearly).
In Europe cars of that era recommended 10w40- and that is actually great even today. A3/B4 in 10w40 grade will be pretty much perfect for your vehicle and climate.
Valvoline Maxlife, Castrol Magnatec, Shell Helix to name a few.
Valvoline Maxlife, Castrol Magnatec, Shell Helix to name a few.
I have a car that is recommended to use 20W-50 in my zone, I run it on 5W-30 A3/B4 because i have heaps of the stuff. It came to me with no oil on the dipstick, and put the 5W-30 in there to check consumption....there is none, so that's what it gets. Same engine in other locals would probably recommend 5w-30 anyway.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Interesting that it rules out the 5W30, then includes it, and 10W30 as preferable.
But, Shannow, this thing about 10W-30 but not 5W-30, found in old manuals, including for my 1985 Corolla, has been brought up many times on BITOG and explained to be obsolete.
It was an early 1980s thing when 5W-30 sheared like crazy. In fact the 5W-30 oils that satisfied the European CCMC (ACEA predecessor) G1 grade didn't have that problem and some manuals OK'd those versions even back then.
It's absolutely not a problem with modern 5W-30, let alone a modern synthetic 5W-30.
A3/B4 grades are xW-40 grades for HTHSV purposes even if they are labeled xW-30. And KV doesn't matter much anyway.
Regarding 10W-40, I remember some car companies (Ford?) forbidding them because they contained too much VII. These days you can't find 10W-40 even at O'Reilly. The preferred grade for my car at that time was 10W-30 even though they recommended everything up to 20W-50. Through experimentation I found out that the modern 0W-20 also works just fine if not better.
Interesting that it rules out the 5W30, then includes it, and 10W30 as preferable.
But, Shannow, this thing about 10W-30 but not 5W-30, found in old manuals, including for my 1985 Corolla, has been brought up many times on BITOG and explained to be obsolete.
It was an early 1980s thing when 5W-30 sheared like crazy. In fact the 5W-30 oils that satisfied the European CCMC (ACEA predecessor) G1 grade didn't have that problem and some manuals OK'd those versions even back then.
It's absolutely not a problem with modern 5W-30, let alone a modern synthetic 5W-30.
A3/B4 grades are xW-40 grades for HTHSV purposes even if they are labeled xW-30. And KV doesn't matter much anyway.
Regarding 10W-40, I remember some car companies (Ford?) forbidding them because they contained too much VII. These days you can't find 10W-40 even at O'Reilly. The preferred grade for my car at that time was 10W-30 even though they recommended everything up to 20W-50. Through experimentation I found out that the modern 0W-20 also works just fine if not better.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Interesting that it rules out the 5W30, then includes it, and 10W30 as preferable.
Nissan/Infiniti always seems late at getting rid of orphaned references in their oil recommendations. I think they've finally gotten rid of the wording about higher viscosity oils for certain conditions, at least in a few brand new manuals I've looked at. Some of the latest manuals call for a 0w-20, but list 5w-30 as perfectly acceptable, and have gotten rid of the higher viscosity codicil. My G37 calls for 5w-30 SM or newer only (no ILSAC requirement) but talks about higher viscosities under certain conditions, without any chart or mentioning what they actually might recommend. CAFE wording.
Interesting that it rules out the 5W30, then includes it, and 10W30 as preferable.
Nissan/Infiniti always seems late at getting rid of orphaned references in their oil recommendations. I think they've finally gotten rid of the wording about higher viscosity oils for certain conditions, at least in a few brand new manuals I've looked at. Some of the latest manuals call for a 0w-20, but list 5w-30 as perfectly acceptable, and have gotten rid of the higher viscosity codicil. My G37 calls for 5w-30 SM or newer only (no ILSAC requirement) but talks about higher viscosities under certain conditions, without any chart or mentioning what they actually might recommend. CAFE wording.
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
A3/B4 grades are xW-40 grades for HTHSV purposes even if they are labeled xW-30. And KV doesn't matter much anyway.
Yes, I've got a table that shows 0w-30 of a few available A3/B4 oils are right on the thickest side of 30, close to a number of 0W-40 oils that are at the lower limit of a 40.
There is an advantage to 0w40 A3/Bx oils over 0w30 and that is they have to stay in grade, meaning a 0w30 A3/Bx could degrade in viscosity far more (from upper to lower limit) compared to the 0w40s that I observed; so when looking at oil based on spec alone the 0w40 (that I observed) would stay a more consistent grade.
A3/B4 grades are xW-40 grades for HTHSV purposes even if they are labeled xW-30. And KV doesn't matter much anyway.
Yes, I've got a table that shows 0w-30 of a few available A3/B4 oils are right on the thickest side of 30, close to a number of 0W-40 oils that are at the lower limit of a 40.
There is an advantage to 0w40 A3/Bx oils over 0w30 and that is they have to stay in grade, meaning a 0w30 A3/Bx could degrade in viscosity far more (from upper to lower limit) compared to the 0w40s that I observed; so when looking at oil based on spec alone the 0w40 (that I observed) would stay a more consistent grade.
The owners manual is the manufacturers view of oil available when the engine was built.
For my 79 BMW I have evidence in the form of service bulletins where the oil chart was revised several times over the years. From a start where xW40 oil was only acceptable at ambients up to 10 Deg C the upper temperature limit for xW40 oils went up when each new service bulletin was issued until there was no upper limit.
For my 79 BMW I have evidence in the form of service bulletins where the oil chart was revised several times over the years. From a start where xW40 oil was only acceptable at ambients up to 10 Deg C the upper temperature limit for xW40 oils went up when each new service bulletin was issued until there was no upper limit.
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