With hemi's we have been sold a bill of goods on 5w20, how the mds is dependent on 5w20. In our forum just under 1/2 of the members use 5w30 and a significant group even go up from there to 0w40 in mds engines, and only one reported a CEL and we have no info past that. Most of us having been doing that for 5 plus years and reporting to the forum various results as it seams the hemi can be lubrication sensitive in many cases, as in with the thin oil we get a lot of ticking or knocking. I went up to 5w30 PUP in my second car, really smoothed out that rattle trap toyo 4 banger, seams like a different engine. I understand about tolerances, but I believe the entire thing has to do with the gov't shoving fuel economy down out throat and nothing to do with protecting out moving metal parts. Run that 5w30 with confidence, it is still thin oil, just not thin as [censored] like the 20's.
Thin 5w30
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Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
The obvious problem with the graph is that we are interested in the range where the viscosities are on the order of 10 and the y values go up to 550.
Either need to zoom in on the range of interest or use a log scale plot.
We do know that the 100C viscosities are different (e.g. 8.6 vs 9.8 for PP), if the graph is making them look identical, then there's a problem with the graph not the values.
The obvious problem with the graph is that we are interested in the range where the viscosities are on the order of 10 and the y values go up to 550.
Either need to zoom in on the range of interest or use a log scale plot.
We do know that the 100C viscosities are different (e.g. 8.6 vs 9.8 for PP), if the graph is making them look identical, then there's a problem with the graph not the values.
Originally Posted By: nap
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
The obvious problem with the graph is that we are interested in the range where the viscosities are on the order of 10 and the y values go up to 550.
Either need to zoom in on the range of interest or use a log scale plot.
We do know that the 100C viscosities are different (e.g. 8.6 vs 9.8 for PP), if the graph is making them look identical, then there's a problem with the graph not the values.
Point of the graph is to show that the viscosity of 5W30 at 100 C is like running 5W20 at 95 C. Sure, if the scale of the graph was expanded between viscosity of 0 and 10 the difference would look more drastic at 100 C. But in reality 5W30 is only giving 5~10 C of extra viscosity "headroom" at 100 C.
Also, any engine is going to like any oil at the 100 C point because the difference in viscosity between them poses no detrimental issues. How the oil behaves below 0 C and above 100 C is important to consider. As the viscosity curve shows, viscosity rate change is much higher in the cold end of the temperature range.
Start going much hotter than 100 C, and then the thinner oils start having MOFT and wear protection issues. Or start going much colder than 0 C and the thicker oils start having flow and pumping issues.
Originally Posted By: Virtus_Probi
The obvious problem with the graph is that we are interested in the range where the viscosities are on the order of 10 and the y values go up to 550.
Either need to zoom in on the range of interest or use a log scale plot.
We do know that the 100C viscosities are different (e.g. 8.6 vs 9.8 for PP), if the graph is making them look identical, then there's a problem with the graph not the values.
Point of the graph is to show that the viscosity of 5W30 at 100 C is like running 5W20 at 95 C. Sure, if the scale of the graph was expanded between viscosity of 0 and 10 the difference would look more drastic at 100 C. But in reality 5W30 is only giving 5~10 C of extra viscosity "headroom" at 100 C.
Also, any engine is going to like any oil at the 100 C point because the difference in viscosity between them poses no detrimental issues. How the oil behaves below 0 C and above 100 C is important to consider. As the viscosity curve shows, viscosity rate change is much higher in the cold end of the temperature range.
Start going much hotter than 100 C, and then the thinner oils start having MOFT and wear protection issues. Or start going much colder than 0 C and the thicker oils start having flow and pumping issues.
This chart can also help someone who is looking for a “thin” 5w30.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/
+1 on the new PP D1 G2 5W30 - use with confidence stepping up from 5W20 ...
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
The new Pennzoil Platinum Dexos1 Gen2 5W-30 is probably the thinnest 5W-30 I’ve seen. KV100 in the 9s I believe.
Edit: both PP d1g2 and Valvoline “Modern Engine” are 9.8.
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
The new Pennzoil Platinum Dexos1 Gen2 5W-30 is probably the thinnest 5W-30 I’ve seen. KV100 in the 9s I believe.
Edit: both PP d1g2 and Valvoline “Modern Engine” are 9.8.
Originally Posted By: CT8
Thicker is better.
That would be Castrol, right?
I'm waiting on the Universal Oil Recommendation, PYB!
Thicker is better.
That would be Castrol, right?
I'm waiting on the Universal Oil Recommendation, PYB!
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
[...]
Start going much hotter than 100 C, and then the thinner oils start having MOFT and wear protection issues. Or start going much colder than 0 C and the thicker oils start having flow and pumping issues.
Well the cold temperature you can generally address with a 0Wxx, a garage (even an unheated but attached one can keep the cars some 10C above outside temperature) and / or a block heater. The last two won't even void any warranties.
It's MOFT that you can't help other than by oil selection. And that is related mostly to HTHS, which everybody wants to push down, threatening with warranty voiding if you don't comply.
[...]
Start going much hotter than 100 C, and then the thinner oils start having MOFT and wear protection issues. Or start going much colder than 0 C and the thicker oils start having flow and pumping issues.
Well the cold temperature you can generally address with a 0Wxx, a garage (even an unheated but attached one can keep the cars some 10C above outside temperature) and / or a block heater. The last two won't even void any warranties.
It's MOFT that you can't help other than by oil selection. And that is related mostly to HTHS, which everybody wants to push down, threatening with warranty voiding if you don't comply.
Originally Posted By: nap
It's MOFT that you can't help other than by oil selection. And that is related mostly to HTHS, which everybody wants to push down, threatening with warranty voiding if you don't comply.
Yep ... but for normal street driving a good xW-20 will work fine (min HTHS spec is 2.6). Mobil 1 5W-20 shows HTHS of 2.75, and others might be above 2.6. Start pushing the car or truck too hard (track use, towing, etc) and at least go up to a xW-30.
As far as the OP worrying about trying to find a "thin 5W30" ... it's a waste of time because any 5W30 will work fine because all their viscosity vs temperature curves are basically laying on top of each other, and the engine won't ever know the difference, especially if it going to just be driven normally on the streets.
It's MOFT that you can't help other than by oil selection. And that is related mostly to HTHS, which everybody wants to push down, threatening with warranty voiding if you don't comply.
Yep ... but for normal street driving a good xW-20 will work fine (min HTHS spec is 2.6). Mobil 1 5W-20 shows HTHS of 2.75, and others might be above 2.6. Start pushing the car or truck too hard (track use, towing, etc) and at least go up to a xW-30.
As far as the OP worrying about trying to find a "thin 5W30" ... it's a waste of time because any 5W30 will work fine because all their viscosity vs temperature curves are basically laying on top of each other, and the engine won't ever know the difference, especially if it going to just be driven normally on the streets.
Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 0w20 and 5w20 now show a HTHS of 2.7.
https://sharena21.springcm.com/Public/Do...12-ac162d889bd1
https://sharena21.springcm.com/Public/Do...12-ac162d889bd1
Let’s just make it easy for the OP:
A “thin” 5w30 will carry one or more of these labels: ILSAC GF5 Energy Conserving; ACEA A1/B1; ACEA A5/B5
To meet the north american manual recommendations, the ILSAC is a must.
Having an A5/B5 would be nice as it would make the promise of a “premium” oil in the European classification.
One such oil is the Pennzoil Platinum. The spec sheet checks all marks and also indicate good low temperature performance.
A “thin” 5w30 will carry one or more of these labels: ILSAC GF5 Energy Conserving; ACEA A1/B1; ACEA A5/B5
To meet the north american manual recommendations, the ILSAC is a must.
Having an A5/B5 would be nice as it would make the promise of a “premium” oil in the European classification.
One such oil is the Pennzoil Platinum. The spec sheet checks all marks and also indicate good low temperature performance.
Thought I'd post up viscosity curves of 4 different 5W-30 full synthetic oils so you can see just how little difference there really is between them from 80 C (176 F) and up. Really no such thing as a "thin" 5W-30 at full operating temperature, but more so at colder temperatures as the previous graph I posted in the beginning of this thread showed starting at 0 C (32 F).
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Thought I'd post up viscosity curves of 4 different 5W-30 full synthetic oils so you can see just how little difference there really is between them from 80 C (176 F) and up. Really no such thing as a "thin" 5W-30 at full operating temperature, but more so at colder temperatures as the previous graph I posted in the beginning of this thread showed starting at 0 C (32 F)...
That Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 looks like it's the old formulation. The newer Dexos1 Gen2 is noticeably "thinner"... KV40 = 53.9, KV100 = 9.8, which is almost like a "thick" 5W20.
Thought I'd post up viscosity curves of 4 different 5W-30 full synthetic oils so you can see just how little difference there really is between them from 80 C (176 F) and up. Really no such thing as a "thin" 5W-30 at full operating temperature, but more so at colder temperatures as the previous graph I posted in the beginning of this thread showed starting at 0 C (32 F)...
That Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 looks like it's the old formulation. The newer Dexos1 Gen2 is noticeably "thinner"... KV40 = 53.9, KV100 = 9.8, which is almost like a "thick" 5W20.
Originally Posted By: turnbowm
That Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 looks like it's the old formulation. The newer Dexos1 Gen2 is noticeably "thinner"... KV40 = 53.9, KV100 = 9.8, which is almost like a "thick" 5W20.
Thanks, I'll have to go look up specs again to see what has changed. The numbers I used were from the oil maker's websites about 3 weeks ago.
That Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 looks like it's the old formulation. The newer Dexos1 Gen2 is noticeably "thinner"... KV40 = 53.9, KV100 = 9.8, which is almost like a "thick" 5W20.
Thanks, I'll have to go look up specs again to see what has changed. The numbers I used were from the oil maker's websites about 3 weeks ago.
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