The Return of User Replaceable Batteries in Mobile Devices

My comment was poorly proofread though.

I don’t know if I would do my own battery replacement. Seems risky.

I replaced a battery and a cracked screen on an iPhone7. While not terribly difficult, you need to be careful and track where each screw goes, as they are all different lengths. The ribbons are very fragile and easy to damage.
I haven't done a newer one and hope I don't have to. They seem to be glued down even more now.
 
So, a little bit of a sidetrack, but not really as it is a rechargeable battery device

I have a few of these around:

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So, what exactly is this?

This was made by the now defunct German company Metz, which was known for making(mostly) high quality/high end photographic flash products. I don't think that was their only business venture, but if you mention Metz to people who have been around photography for a while they'll likely think of the big 45CT and 60CT series handle-mount flash guns.

The above device is a "Power Pack P76". It's a rechargeable NiMH battery pack that can be connected to a variety of Metz flash units. It's meant to be carried from a shoulder strap or attached to your belt, and actually feeds high voltage(I think ~350V or so) directly into the flash capacitors of the devices to which it is attached. This is a big and heavy unit, and it would be used for one of two reasons(or possibly both): it last a LOT longer(gives more flashes per charge) than the batteries in the flash unit, and possibly of even more significance is that it shortens the "recycle time", or time it takes the capacitor to refill and be ready to use again after firing the flash. Testing with a Metz 58 AF-2, for example, it will recycle from a full discharge(which you'd almost never do) in about 1.5 seconds, where 4x AA Alkalines take about 8 seconds.

This was not an inexpensive device new. I believe they were around $500 when they were discontinued in 2015 or so.

Also, the battery was most certainly not intended to be user replaceable. Metz would do it for you, although I have no idea what they charged.

Of course Metz is now gone, and I had a totally dead one so took the "battery is not user replaceable" as a challenge!

Here's the result of that challenge

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(I still need to "pretty it up" for final reassembly).

Basically these contain 8 sub-C NiMH cells. To replace it, you first need to unsolder the old pack, which is actually soldered at 6 places. You cut open the shrink wrap and CAREFULLY extract the temperature sensor, which I found in my testing was actually extremely important. There are a couple of different ways of charging/sensing full charge of NiMH cells, some of which involve watching charging voltage and/or current, but arguably the best way(especially for fast charging) is sensing the rate of temperature increase.

In any case, to put it all back together, you need a battery spot welder and nickel ribbon to do the basic assembly/electrical connections. There's also a thermal fuse that's actually critical to operation that has to be soldered in as well. Once it's all spot welded, the batteries need to be physically glued together(I actually used wood glue-not sure what was originally used), the temperature sensor glued in place, the whole thing shrink wrapped, and then soldered in place. I should say that's what all I'll do in one go the next time I do one, but this one went through QUITE a few iterations(including me stupidly installing NiCd cells at one point, since the originals were cardboard wrapped and I paid more attention to the cardboard wrapping than the chemistry...and it didn't work since the temperature characteristics during charging are too different). This one still isn't complete as I need to redo and "pretty up" the shrink wrap as well as put some self adhesive foam rubber on it to keep it from rattling around.

Even though I was able to replace the battery, I doubt anyone would actually consider this user replaceable.

BTW, even if something has a replaceable battery, those do go bad. I've rebuilt my fair share of them especially for some obscure camera applications. Sometimes you open get lucky to find something like AA sized cells, but at other times you'll need something like 2/3A or Sub-C or something else like that. You can often find those cells with solder tabs on them(soldering directly to a battery is usually considered a bad idea, plus the terminals themselves often aren't overly solder friendly) but the inexpensive battery spot welder I bought was a worthwhile investment for this kind of stuff as it lets me configure things however I need.

I also had fun years ago rebuilding the battery pack for my Macintosh Portable with 3x E size Enersys Cyclon cells. I've come to love the Cyclon cells and actually need to order some size D and size DT for a different project(a different Metz flash that was meant to use a lead acid gel cell battery that as best as I can tell is no longer made with the exact physical dimensions required). The Cyclon cells are sealed lead acid/AGM cylindrical cells(nominal voltage 2V) with form factors similar to other common cylindrical cells.
 
I have known people with problems too however they bought used phones which may have been opened / compromised .
Even though they may "suggest" that their phones are water "resistant", none of the phone manufacturers warranty their phones against water damage. You get it wet and it breaks, you're out a phone 😉

They actually have little moisture markers in the SIM card tray and other places that change color when they get wet... from white to pink usually, and if they see those change color your warranty is automatically voided.
 
Even though they may "suggest" that their phones are water "resistant", none of the phone manufacturers warranty their phones against water damage. You get it wet and it breaks, you're out a phone 😉

They actually have little moisture markers in the SIM card tray and other places that change color when they get wet... from white to pink usually, and if they see those change color your warranty is automatically voided.
Not “suggest”, They are Certified as stated below;

“The iPhone 14, iPhone 14 Plus, iPhone 14 Pro and iPhone 14 Pro Max are all IP68 certified under IEC standard 60529.”

“This means that they can be submerged in fresh water up to a maximum depth of six meters (19.7 feet) for up to half an hour. That certification also means that these phones are dust resistant, too.“

Source = https://www.techradar.com/features/is-the-iphone-14-waterproof

From Apple =
 
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Even though they may "suggest" that their phones are water "resistant", none of the phone manufacturers warranty their phones against water damage. You get it wet and it breaks, you're out a phone 😉

They actually have little moisture markers in the SIM card tray and other places that change color when they get wet... from white to pink usually, and if they see those change color your warranty is automatically voided.
As mentioned the phone industry is another where consumers caved to marketing.

Just like healthcare. Employers trained employees to accept a HSA or HRA and high deductible, while public employees enjoy $0 deductible PPOs in 2023 (to illustrate it still exists).

Corporate accounts enjoy top of the line iPhones with 1 yr contracts for $599, not $1300+, the day the new phone is launched.

As a consumer we have to “wait” for a deal. My 13 pro 256 was $309, the day the 14 was launched, Xs 64 $249, two weeks after it came out. I bought them because they fall under the max I will pay, about $400.

I saw a YouTube where a guy swam in the ocean with a 13 pro and it was fine. He did not suggest trying it though lol

We don’t seem to tell marketers “no.”
 
I was being sarcastic with the "suggest" lol... but I think you knew that 😉 So does Apple warranty your phone if you take it for a dive and it quits working? 😜

I just noticed Apple is calling their phones water "resistant" not waterproof... things that make you go hmmm lol.

I just read the link you posted from Apple and this is what they say about their water "resistance" ------------->

Splash, water, and dust resistance are not permanent conditions and resistance might decrease as a result of normal wear. Liquid damage is not covered under warranty, but you might have rights under consumer law.
 
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I was being sarcastic with the "suggest" lol... but I think you knew that 😉 So does Apple warranty your phone if you take it for a dive and it quits working? 😜
You did read my post right 🤪 and the IEC standard it meets?

Gets tired reading the same old argument about a water warranty as no one warranties a device water resistant to 19.7 feel not even the premium android phones from Samsung, Google and anyone else but you knew that right?

Exactly how would a company know you didn’t go past 20 feet OR be in fresh water less that 20 feet for less than the IEC standard of 30 minutes?
Really, come on now 🙃
 
Thing is does the water resistance really matter THAT much in practical use? I'd say most people would much rather deal with looking for a phone in 4' of water rather than 18', bwahaha. My G-Shock Rangeman is rated for 200 meter depth, but not like I'll ever need to rely on that. The downside to that sort of thing is having to rely on the manufacturer for any trustworthy repair done as in most cases that seal is compromised the moment it's tampered with compared to the factory assembly.
I have 4 kids ranging from 7 years old to 11 months old. Stuff happens. I’ll take water resistance over a super user replaceable battery especially since Apple offers incredibly fair pricing (IMO) for their replacements. $89 for my 13 pro max ain’t bad, an iFixIt DIY kit is $45.
 
You did read my post right 🤪 and the IEC standard it meets?

Gets tired reading the same old argument about a water warranty as no one warranties a device water resistant to 19.7 feel not even the premium android phones from Samsung, Google and anyone else but you knew that right?

Exactly how would a company know you didn’t go past 20 feet OR be in fresh water less that 20 feet for less than the IEC standard of 30 minutes?
Really, come on now 🙃
That's what I said earlier... no one warranties water damage. Didn't you quote that post? I think someone did lol. Actually I just looked back up, and you did quote it ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

One thing I've noticed about this site is that every thread turns into a battlefield... I've been a member of MANY car, bike, phone, computer and all kinds of other forums. Only one of them had a special forum for folks to go in and shred each other, and turn every thread into some kind of political war. This site seems that way with every topic and forum 😲

What's up with that? Not attacking you in any way.... it seems to be the vibe here in general. That does explain all the locked threads I see 🤣

I'm guessing a bunch of grumpy old car guys? 😉

Ironically enough I just checked another thread I was enjoying that just got locked.... Costco Battery Warranty Changed 😂

I guess more than just a warranty changed in that thread 😜
 
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One thing I've noticed about this site is that every thread turns into a battlefield...

At least when it comes at least to some, it frankly is blind fanboyism.

I've been accused of being an Apple fanboy. I use Apple stuff almost exclusively now. Not counting my ancient Samsung Blackjack, I've never had a smartphone that wasn't an iPhone. I've been 100% Mac aside from work situations where Macs weren't an option(and I've been known to get pretty creative about making them work where they're not supposed to).

I've been absolutely BLASTED on here, including by at least one poster in this thread, for being critical of certain Apple design decisions. I use Apple products because I like the designs, like the UI, and for the most part find the hardware both high quality and normally a good value for the quality it offers.

With that said, Apple has made some stupid design decisions over the years. Steve Jobs was weirdly obsessed with quiet, and Apple has a long history of fanless products that either cooked themselves to death(the original M0001 Macintosh models-many of which in the real world ended up with an ugly aftermarket fan shoved in the carrying handle to keep them cool), would randomly shut off from overheating(first iMac) to underperforming for a premium priced product(Cube) to just being all around terrible(2015/2016 MacBook).

It's still insane that in 2023 you can buy a base model Mac with 8gb RAM, which isn't enough and ends up thrashing the SSD to death because it pages so much even in day to day useage. Apple continues to do that, though, especially in their "entry level" ~$1K laptops.

And no they don't always get it right the first time as has been suggested otherwise in this thread. Look at, just for example, the iPhone 4 that came on the market with rampant reports of poor reception and led to the now infamous "You're holding it wrong" response. Yes that's become a joke, but Jobs & Co actually said that as a serious answer(putting your fingers in a place where one would...well...normally put their fingers on a phone when using it would short circuit the antenna) and finally led to the big "yeah we messed up" press conference where they admitted a poor design and offered everyone a free case that would solve the issue. There are lots of examples of this.

As I mentioned earlier, Apple is, IMO, moving in the right direction with replaceable batteries. Starting with the 2012 Retina MacBook Pro and followed by every subsequent laptop that received a major redesign Apple glued multi-piece batteries into the case. Replacing a battery in one quite literally involves dissolving the adhesive with acetone-it's involved enough that they don't even replace them in store but just exchange entire top cases with batteries installed. BTW, kits to do replace these aren't a lot less expensive than having Apple do it(last I looked around $200 for a DIY kit, $250 for Apple to do it).

The 2021 designs(14"/16" MacBook Pro and I think the M2 MacBook Air, but don't hold me to the latter) still have the batteries glued in place but they use a "stretch to release" adhesive that is imminently tackleable by someone following directions. It's not as good as when batteries were just held by a few screws as in the 2008-2015 MacBook Airs, 2009/2010 MacBook, and 2009-2012 MacBook Pro, but is doable.
 
That's what I said earlier... no one warranties water damage. Didn't you quote that post? I think someone did lol. Actually I just looked back up, and you did quote it ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

One thing I've noticed about this site is that every thread turns into a battlefield... I've been a member of MANY car, bike, phone, computer and all kinds of other forums. Only one of them had a special forum for folks to go in and shred each other, and turn every thread into some kind of political war. This site seems that way with every topic and forum 😲

What's up with that? Not attacking you in any way.... it seems to be the vibe here in general. That does explain all the locked threads I see 🤣

I'm guessing a bunch of grumpy old car guys? 😉

Ironically enough I just checked another thread I was enjoying that just got locked.... Costco Battery Warranty Changed 😂

I guess more than just a warranty changed in that thread 😜
I’ve never seen a forum where everybody agrees.
Even your post here instead of sticking to the subject, you’re commenting about grumpy old car guys? Is that not changing the thread right there?

Then right here is another example.
This is the post, I replied to you no place in here did you say anything about others. I only see the word apple in your post and it’s this post that I replied to.

We do agree on some things, everyone just loves that word “fanboy” somebody who likes a product is called a fanboy. It could be a motor oil it could be an automobile. It could be a cell phone. It could be a computer, but the person who hates that product uses that word fanboy instead of having intelligent conversation.
Maybe I’m missing something but this is your post and my reply.

And if we did have a similar discussion in another interaction in this thread, why wouldn’t you just bring it up instead of changing the thread into something else regarding forums?
IMG_4870.jpeg
 
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I was being sarcastic with the "suggest" lol... but I think you knew that 😉 So does Apple warranty your phone if you take it for a dive and it quits working? 😜

I just noticed Apple is calling their phones water "resistant" not waterproof... things that make you go hmmm lol.

I just read the link you posted from Apple and this is what they say about their water "resistance" ------------->

Splash, water, and dust resistance are not permanent conditions and resistance might decrease as a result of normal wear. Liquid damage is not covered under warranty, but you might have rights under consumer law.
You keep using the word Apple, however if you do some research you will understand IEC standards and the use of words.
No other manufacturer uses the standard any differently.
Apple does not call their phones water resistant. Apple restates the IEC IP68 standard for water resistant.

Maybe this will explain better.
By the way, when it comes to sarcasm in a forum, reading somebody else’s words, it’s not always apparent, which I’m sure you know. Maybe there would be less disagreements if people were not sarcastic in the forum?

 
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Go up to post #86 alarmguy... that's the post I'm talking about. Obviously me and you come here for completely different reasons... I like to discuss topics that interest me in a fun, friendly way (like friends would) with other folks that have similar interests.

You like to "debate" everything. Not saying it's bad, that's just not the kind of interactions I come to forums for. So you go ahead and do your thing 😉

Btw I've never attacked Apple in any of my posts in this thread... I'm not an Apple hater. I think you confused me for someone else. That might explain the fact you were getting a little rabid 😲
 
Go up to post #86 alarmguy... that's the post I'm talking about. Obviously me and you come here for completely different reasons... I like to discuss topics that interest me in a fun, friendly way (like friends would) with other folks that have similar interests.

You like to "debate" everything. Not saying it's bad, that's just not the kind of interactions I come to forums for. So you go ahead and do your thing 😉
Except if someone disagrees with you?
Then make some statements and backtrack and say sarcasm?
It’s all good I think we’re best ignoring each other 🤣
 
In my experience by the time a cellphone battery is showing signs of weakness the phone is outdated anyway........Most don't keep tablets, smartphones, etc., long enough to change batteries multiple times.
This.

With that said, I have a 2017 iPhone 8. The battery is the only thing that has significantly degraded, but since I have it plugged in a lot it hasn't become a problem. I should really get a new one, but I have a hard time giving this one up since otherwise it works great, and it feels wasteful.
 
Except if someone disagrees with you?
Then make some statements and backtrack and say sarcasm?
It’s all good I think we’re best ignoring each other 🤣
As I said in the rest of my post that you missed quoting above:

Btw I've never attacked Apple in any of my posts in this thread... I'm not an Apple hater. I think you confused me for someone else. That might explain the fact you were getting a little rabid 😲

But as far as ignoring, I don't give up on folks that easy... I've never ignored anyone online and I won't be starting now 😉
 
I’ve never seen a forum where everybody agrees.
Even your post here instead of sticking to the subject, you’re commenting about grumpy old car guys? Is that not changing the thread right there?

Then right here is another example.
This is the post, I replied to you no place in here did you say anything about others. I only see the word apple in your post and it’s this post that I replied to.

We do agree on some things, everyone just loves that word “fanboy” somebody who likes a product is called a fanboy. It could be a motor oil it could be an automobile. It could be a cell phone. It could be a computer, but the person who hates that product uses that word fanboy instead of having intelligent conversation.
Maybe I’m missing something but this is your post and my reply.

And if we did have a similar discussion in another interaction in this thread, why wouldn’t you just bring it up instead of changing the thread into something else regarding forums?
View attachment 175650
Oh god you use light mode, I thought I could trust you!

Dark mode for life 😜
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