That trapped soccer team in flooded cave system

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: Bud
Originally Posted By: JLTD
Simple. One by one, with an extra scuba tank and diver escorts. Should have had them all out by now.


I believe your comment is called "armchair quarterbacking."


If one kid panics and drowns and dies. What then? The other armchair quarterbacks will say that they should have waited.
What if the cave collapses? My son was a Boy Scout, We went caving, white water canoeing. Week long back packing trips. Snow camping in the wilderness . Trips to the top of Mt Shasta, Night hike to the top of Mt Lassen through cloud layers. etc kids are fearless and can go and go. We had to restrict the scouts desire to perform out door activities. The Scout masters were kick but outdoors man.The kids would dig the dive.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: CT8
Kids can use SCUBA gear with ease.


It takes the world's best SCUBA cave divers 1.5 hours to get out. You think kids that can't even swim are going to SCUBA dive out of there easily?
They don't need to swim with scuba gear. Been scuba diving since I was 15 years old and I am 65 now. I dove last year. You don't really need to swim for what is needed. In fact I still remember the feeling the first time I breathed underwater with scuba gear. it is still incredible.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: mattwithcats
36 inch drill, and mine rescue chamber.

Punch a hole down in 3-4 days tops...

Risk of collapse, perhaps?

 

[Snagglefoot]

Reminds me of the South American ? mine collapse where an oil rig was brought in to drill a hole to the miners, lined the hole with steel casing and lowered a one man cage down inside the casing. All escaped. Anyone remember that?

 

[edwardh1]

hope the government will seal the caves up, or something.

 

[andyd]

Its a major tourist draw. Mostly for crazoids who think cave diving is fun. The 25 yr old kid leading them made a bad decision. The possibility of sinking a shaft was dismissed as "impractical" Is that Thai for too expensive?

 

[simple_gifts]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: CT8
Kids can use SCUBA gear with ease.


It takes the world's best SCUBA cave divers 1.5 hours to get out. You think kids that can't even swim are going to SCUBA dive out of there easily?
They don't need to swim with scuba gear. Been scuba diving since I was 15 years old and I am 65 now. I dove last year. You don't really need to swim for what is needed. In fact I still remember the feeling the first time I breathed underwater with scuba gear. it is still incredible.


There are 12 kids, each with a separate set of skills and phobias, in there, not 12 versions "of you" Add to that, they have been under mental duress for over a week and perhaps in pitch darkness. I think understanding that is primary considerations of the rescuers and anyone who needs to deal with people under duress.

Comparing your recreational diving to this situation is a stretch to say the least; it is an activity you chose to do under controlled conditions, not something you were asked to learn in pitch darkness.

In a college geology outing we climbed up a very sharp slope to investigate some rock formations; one woman in our class "was convinced" to go up there by the instructor which she didn't want to. About 15 minutes after being up 150 feet she got panicked. It didn't matter that I didn't have an issue being there, the issue was "she did" and was hysterical. That defined the situation at the time, not the rock slope.

 

[Brad_C]

Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Reminds me of the South American ? mine collapse where an oil rig was brought in to drill a hole to the miners, lined the hole with steel casing and lowered a one man cage down inside the casing. All escaped. Anyone remember that?


They are looking for a potential location to drill now for exactly that scenario.

Fingers crossed for an eventual happy ending anyway.

 

[cjcride]

Cave diving is the most dangerous diving there is.

 

[linkbelt]

Originally Posted By: JLTD
Simple. One by one, with an extra scuba tank and diver escorts. Should have had them all out by now.


If it was that simple, they would already be out!!

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

A very difficult situation but not impossible, and enough know how for a safe outcome.

 

[raytseng]

Originally Posted By: linkbelt
Originally Posted By: JLTD
Simple. One by one, with an extra scuba tank and diver escorts. Should have had them all out by now.


If it was that simple, they would already be out!!


yea seriously. They have the best international cave rescue folks flown in from all over who have been thinking about this for days; and building on decades of knowledge from their rescue communities; not just 5minutes of armchairing.

Start by drinking nothing but muddy cave water for 10 days and no food and see how you are faring physically.

Then realize that the diving isn't snorkelling in hawaii or a walk in the park, but with tight squeezes. The best analogy is maybe if you remember the first time working under your car when it's on jacks and just a couple inches of clearance. Now imagine that with scuba equipment you don't know how to use, and instead of a smooth floor, you have rocks and current wanting to push you and some areas you have to got to go sideways, others and you're disoriented since you don't know which way is up it all looks the same and for long sections.

The darkness isn't necessarily due to lack of light but because the water is not clear.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: raytseng
Originally Posted By: linkbelt
Originally Posted By: JLTD
Simple. One by one, with an extra scuba tank and diver escorts. Should have had them all out by now.


If it was that simple, they would already be out!!


yea seriously. They have the best international cave rescue folks flown in from all over who have been thinking about this for days; and building on decades of knowledge from their rescue communities; not just 5minutes of armchairing.

Start by drinking nothing but muddy cave water for 10 days and no food and see how you are faring physically.

Then realize that the diving isn't snorkelling in hawaii or a walk in the park, but with tight squeezes. The best analogy is maybe if you remember the first time working under your car when it's on jacks and just a couple inches of clearance. Now imagine that with scuba equipment you don't know how to use, and instead of a smooth floor, you have rocks and current wanting to push you and some areas you have to got to go sideways, others and you're disoriented since you don't know which way is up it all looks the same and for long sections.

The darkness isn't necessarily due to lack of light but because the water is not clear.



Some reports say that there's sections where it's a 100 foot dive. There are other sections where it's so narrow, you'd have to take off your scuba tank in order to get through. And because of the constant rain, visibility is bad, like swimming in coffee. Plus in certain sections, there are currents. Doesn't sound easy at all. They say the key is to stay calm, panic is the greatest danger. Easier to stay calm when you've done it a bunch of times, easy to panic when it's the first time.

 

[raytseng]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: Bud
Originally Posted By: JLTD
Simple. One by one, with an extra scuba tank and diver escorts. Should have had them all out by now.


I believe your comment is called "armchair quarterbacking."


If one kid panics and drowns and dies. What then? The other armchair quarterbacks will say that they should have waited.
What if the cave collapses? My son was a Boy Scout, We went caving, white water canoeing. Week long back packing trips. Snow camping in the wilderness . Trips to the top of Mt Shasta, Night hike to the top of Mt Lassen through cloud layers. etc kids are fearless and can go and go. We had to restrict the scouts desire to perform out door activities. The Scout masters were kick but outdoors man.The kids would dig the dive.


I think there is a nuance here; because the things you mentioned have hidden risks that kids don't see it should be something to be feared.
A kid who can't think 10minutes ahead, so they don't know to be afraid of a weeklong trip.

However, when presented with a uniquely new situation that has obvious risks (but is actually relatively safe); is where fear presents themselves and percentage of them will freak out. OVERCOMING fear and panic is something kids definitely CAN'T do as well as experienced divers.

You are involved with scouts. If you've observed scouts doing a zipline or rapelling in the COPE activities; or jumping off a dive or rock into water; about 1 in 15 or so never-evers will freeze up and panic; depending on how fearful it is. If you attempt to push them to do it, it will not get better and pretty much emotionally scar them. They will have to back away from the activity to calm down and choose to try again.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: cjcride
Cave diving is the most dangerous diving there is.


Well, really deep dives are probably more dangerous, but cave diving isn't notably safe.
The danger in cave diving involves panic, not any inherent danger.
I saw a guy who was a man's man totally freak out in a cave with decent vis and it wasn't pretty.
He was lucky to escape with his life and nobody even thought to tease him about it afterwards.
Black water is scary to dive in even in an open water situation. I've done this under ice in a dry suit with a full face mask, surface supplied air with a bailout bottle and coms and it was pretty disorienting.
In a cave, disorientation could quickly lead to panic and drivers typically die because they panic and then drown.
OTOH, caves are always dived with redundant lines and redundant lights.
If the rescue drivers can persuade the young men that they need only follow the line and that nothing bad will happen if they do that and that the rescue diver will be with them every foot of the way and if the young men are given full face masks with com, then the possibility of a successful outcome may be very good.
This is a tough situation any way you looks at it but leaving these young men and their coach in the cave might lead to death either by drowning or hypoxia.
SCUBA is really easy and natural for anyone who's comfortable being in the water, but not everyone is.
For equipment, I'd probably favor surface supplied to a full face mask (Aga, which I've used?), a tether line running to the surface and maybe no fins with a light wet suit, depending upon how cold the water is. No BC since these are pretty useless in what will be shallow water and would only put these new divers on the roof in fully submerged sections with maybe wrist and ankle weights to counter the buoyancy of the wet suit.

 

[JLTD]

Originally Posted By: linkbelt
Originally Posted By: JLTD
Simple. One by one, with an extra scuba tank and diver escorts. Should have had them all out by now.


If it was that simple, they would already be out!!


Originally Posted By: JLTD
I retract my previous - the article I read said they were 100 meters from the exit....poor information indeed! Apparently they are safely away from any potential water level, so waiting it out does seem the best course.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Wow, that's pretty crazy! I hadn't heard of it. I hope they all get out safely.

Seems like a real bad situation. I don't think I'd be cave exploring in an area that is prone to torrential rains at any given time.

I wonder how long it would be before they can get it pumped out and get the kids' strength up so they can walk out? They did walk to the spot they are not.

 

[Walmill]

I'm a bit confused on the situation.
They're hundreds of meters deep into a cave network, trapped, in or out is difficult.
But they're being provided supplies and "crash courses" on various things.

I'm sure the answer is plainly obvious, but how are they getting supplies and receiving instructions?

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: Walmill
I'm a bit confused on the situation.
They're hundreds of meters deep into a cave network, trapped, in or out is difficult.
But they're being provided supplies and "crash courses" on various things.

I'm sure the answer is plainly obvious, but how are they getting supplies and receiving instructions?



Very well trained, skilled divers.

They are over a mile back and were able to walk to where they are now. But , because of the flooding and such they aren't able to walk back out. And there's some pretty hairy areas that they walked through that are now full of flood water.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: Walmill
I'm a bit confused on the situation.
They're hundreds of meters deep into a cave network, trapped, in or out is difficult.
But they're being provided supplies and "crash courses" on various things.

I'm sure the answer is plainly obvious, but how are they getting supplies and receiving instructions?


It wasn't easy to reach them. Remember, they were missing for 9 days before divers were finally able to reach them. They're not divers and they don't know how to swim plus they're also weakened from not eating for 9 days. Reports seem to say it takes anywhere from 3-6 hours depending on conditions to reach them and that's with experienced divers.