Test drove a Jeep Grand Wagoneer with the high output 3.0L twin turbo

[4WD]

Boy, the AMG, ///M and SRT SUV's must really chide you then, lol

There is also an Escalade V = LT4 @ 682HP … Brembo etc …

 

[OVERKILL]

Well, they again are virtually worthless for practical use, super fancy appointments and strong brakes aside. Getting to 65 mph in no time flat serves very little practical purpose.

My son's girlfriend lives on a line off Highway 7, which is a 2-lane non-divided highway with a 80km/h limit, but traffic is typically doing 100 (60mph) and is very busy. There's a hill on both sides, so visibility is poor, and there's no on-ramp, you are turning right, or left and have to get up to speed quickly unless you want to wait for a large gap, which is hard to gauge, since the hills make that difficult (you can't easily see what is coming). In this scenario, I do appreciate being able to rapidly get up to speed. Exceptional circumstance? Perhaps, but I do it pretty regularly.

Of course we are into diminishing returns here, as the difference between a 3 and 5 second 0-60 in this scenario isn't overly important, both are getting up to speed very quickly, but something with a 15 second 0-60 could be dangerous in the event the hill sufficiently impedes their vision such that they end up cutting off a transport doing 60mph.

 

[Warstud]

I wouldnt pay 100k for a vehicle that has the rear windows upside down and the chrome trim doesnt look right .

 

[dumkid]

Unless you are so entitled that you are planning to drive illegal speeds on the public roads, which is a different conversation

You just described half the German SUVs I see on the highway. Rarely are they doing less than 80 in a 65 zone.

Sometimes when they're being followed by another car that's speeding, the German SUV will speed even more for some reason

 

[JHZR2]

My son's girlfriend lives on a line off Highway 7, which is a 2-lane non-divided highway with a 80km/h limit, but traffic is typically doing 100 (60mph) and is very busy. There's a hill on both sides, so visibility is poor, and there's no on-ramp, you are turning right, or left and have to get up to speed quickly unless you want to wait for a large gap, which is hard to gauge, since the hills make that difficult (you can't easily see what is coming). In this scenario, I do appreciate being able to rapidly get up to speed. Exceptional circumstance? Perhaps, but I do it pretty regularly.

Of course we are into diminishing returns here, as the difference between a 3 and 5 second 0-60 in this scenario isn't overly important, both are getting up to speed very quickly, but something with a 15 second 0-60 could be dangerous in the event the hill sufficiently impedes their vision such that they end up cutting off a transport doing 60mph.

Aah, the classic response. Usually it’s “my wife can’t feel safe accelerating onto the highway without a ____” type thing.

And dare anyone challenge it, they’re the bad guy with blood on their hands.

Frankly, these Uber fast vehicles are quite recent. I wonder how folks survived 10 years ago when many of these vehicles had half the power, were twice as slow, and the roads were about the same.

The other side of it is that if these roads are that unsafe, why aren’t folks up in arms and taking it up with the localities. A 4s 6500 lb suv seems like a pretty big bandaid for a bad road.

 

[OVERKILL]

I wouldnt pay 100k for a vehicle that has the rear windows upside down and the chrome trim doesnt look right .

I think they look pretty nice all blacked-out:

Though I do agree that the rear windows look funky.

 

[JHZR2]

I think they look pretty nice all blacked-out:
View attachment 167337
View attachment 167338
View attachment 167339

Though I do agree that the rear windows look funky.

Black out looks good. And the smaller keeps really have always looked good.

The rear windows remind me of a nissan for some reason.

 

[OVERKILL]

Aah, the classic response. Usually it’s “my wife can’t feel safe accelerating onto the highway without a ____” type thing.

And dare anyone challenge it, they’re the bad guy with blood on their hands.

I'm saying there are circumstances where having the extra acceleration can be useful, and provides additional safety, nothing more.

Frankly, these Uber fast vehicles are quite recent. I wonder how folks survived 10 years ago when many of these vehicles had half the power, were twice as slow, and the roads were about the same.

This road has gotten progressively more busy as the area grows, so no, roads were not about the same.

The other side of it is that if these roads are that unsafe, why aren’t folks up in arms and taking it up with the localities. A 4s 6500 lb suv seems like a pretty big bandaid for a bad road.

They are. The death rate on this highway is quite high:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/fatal-collision-highway-7-1.6768474

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/carleotn-place-highway-7-tatlock-road-crash-1.6865701

1 dead following Hwy. 7 collision east of Peterborough: OPP - Peterborough | Globalnews.ca

Peterborough County OPP say an eastbound tractor-trailer and a westbound SUV collided on Saturday afternoon.

globalnews.ca

4 dead after head-on collision on Hwy. 7 east of Peterborough: OPP | Globalnews.ca

Peterborough County OPP was called to a fatal collision on the highway near Drummond Line in Otonabee-South Monaghan Township.

globalnews.ca

Hwy. 7, east of Peterborough, closed due to collision

OPP have closed Highway 7, between Hwy. 28 and Indian River Line in Otonabee-South Monaghan Township, due a motor-vehicle collision.

www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com

1 person dead, 2 injured after collision on Highway 7 in Acton | Globalnews.ca

'It was snowing, slushy, wet and slippery at the time of the crash, and investigators are still trying to piece together exactly what took place,' OPP Sgt. Kerry Schmidt said.

globalnews.ca

And there are so many more...

And yes, not denying this is a bandaid, but it works for me and I can control what I drive, I can't control what the county or province decides to do with this road, so while there may eventually be action taken to improve things, as it stands, I'm objectively safer being able to get up to speed quickly as things stand at present.

 

[Geoff]

More pistons doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll stop quicker. The Escalade V has giant 16.1” front 6 piston Brembo brakes and 13.6” single piston rear Brembo’s and manages to take 2ft longer to stop from 70 than the non V model with “lesser” 4 piston front/single piston rear brakes.

The larger brakes mean reduced fade and consistent performance after hard use so that they are reliable under severe duty, not necessarily shorter stopping.

 

[JHZR2]

The larger brakes mean reduced fade and consistent performance after hard use so that they are reliable under severe duty, not necessarily shorter stopping.

Larger brakes, but most of that is in the heat sync/stored energy in the rotor.

Recently many of these multi piston brakes come with phenolic pistons that can even melt under hard use.

A wel designed heavy duty caliper coming from a large truck application is surely usable for the Waggoner.

 

[OVERKILL]

Larger brakes, but most of that is in the heat sync/stored energy in the rotor.

Recently many of these multi piston brakes come with phenolic pistons that can even melt under hard use.

A wel designed heavy duty caliper coming from a large truck application is surely usable for the Waggoner.

The Wagoneer probably just has the same brakes as the DT RAM, which is the platform it shares. They are pretty good sized for OE, unlike some of the baby brakes you see on certain pickup trucks, which look ridiculous with 22" rims and a brake setup that looks like it was sized for a Neon.

 

[wemay]

I see a lot of folks calling out a participant in this thread for stereotyping consumers who purchase this and other large vehicles (fair). Lot's of "Likes" as well. However, do you guys call out the stereotypes of "EV drivers being tree huggers or wanting to save the earth ...?"

OP, thanks for the review and pics. It looks great in black. I'm warming up to the rear third I found odd when just released.

 

[ls1mike]

If you’re saying that someone needs a 6.4v8 to go get groceries in their 6500lb suv, I’d say you’re looney.

If they want to waste fuel and money, for absolutely no purpose, I might start to agree.

Of course a turbo engine has a different demeanor, and when the boost is on, will be hard to beat. In an I6 engine it should get rid of some of the horrendous design attributes of V-engines (I’m thinking the ford eco boost timing chains).

In more practical terms, I’ve forever said, on really doesn’t need more than about 72hp to go around in day to day use, towing or some semblance of “fun” wasting fuel to accelerate aside.

But seriously. All this power is excessive for most everything but towing. The concept of vehicles that accelerate so fast that they get to illegal speeds super quick, is just absurd. I can’t use 300/300 safely or legally when I get on it. So while I get the “fun” of it, that’s useful about five times and the rest is a waste.


But most consumer use cases are absurd. No, I don’t want some idiot rocketing a 6500lb suv down the on-ramp at some excessive rate of acceleration and ultimately creating safety issues for all.

Everyone needs a hobby. I see people do all kinds of stuff I wouldn't spend my money on. You might only need 72 HP. I do not.
Your measure of absurd is certainly different than mine.

 

[mr_boring]

I bet it's fast, but for that price no. I could never rationalize buying this over the cheaper and arguably better escalade or navigator. Especially if it's the short wheelbase version.

Wife has a 2021 black label Navi. Sticker north of 100k. It made my heart hurt....

I can attest to the luxury and overall feel of the Navigator. I drove a Wagoneer. You'd have to be a hardcore fan of that platform to love it or think that it can compare to a Navigator. Never driven an Escalade, but have ridden in one, also very nice.

Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler/Fiat/Ram need to get way from that pinched up constipated look.....

 

[JHZR2]

Everyone needs a hobby. I see people do all kinds of stuff I wouldn't spend my money on. You might only need 72 HP. I do not.
Your measure of absurd is certainly different than mine.

You also tow a travel trailer. Firsthand experience justifies 72 as the floor for a family to go around at modern highway speeds. I’m not saying that’s what anyone should drive around with.

But when I can too easily get to 100+ in no time flat in my “slow” 300/300 and relatively heavy 135i, I recognize that there’s a practical upper bound too. To avoid that reality is really just ignoring it. And to think that there’s going to be a bunch of idiots driving sub 5s 6500 lb SUVs rocketing all over is indeed absurd.

 

[ls1mike]

We are going to have to agree to disagree. Both the Caprice and WS6 are over 400hp and torque to the wheels. There is a time and place for it, I like it that way, both pass emissions and will get 22 to 26 Mpg on the highway. Everyone's reality is different.

 

[Bill7]

Yes, there are those who really "need" such vehicles, but most are just garage queens, that rarely tow anything, rarely haul anything, and rarely do more than just transport someone to work and back home.

I prefer not to crap all over our earth...we only have one...as to my neighbors who think climate change is a myth...to bad, so sad.

You're passionate about what you believe in, I'll give you that.

But the mentality of only your way is acceptable may be out of touch with most of the country.
I only buy 3.5L V-6's with over 240 HP that at best get 28 MPG on the highway. Does that make me a bad person. No.

 

[CanAmAndMore]

Aah, the classic response. Usually it’s “my wife can’t feel safe accelerating onto the highway without a ____” type thing.

And dare anyone challenge it, they’re the bad guy with blood on their hands.

Frankly, these Uber fast vehicles are quite recent. I wonder how folks survived 10 years ago when many of these vehicles had half the power, were twice as slow, and the roads were about the same.

The other side of it is that if these roads are that unsafe, why aren’t folks up in arms and taking it up with the localities. A 4s 6500 lb suv seems like a pretty big bandaid for a bad road.

Do vehicles there not have brakes to slow down?

I simply brake and slow down for traffic entering the hwy in front of me, which happens a lot. Entering a hwy aggressively also seems dangerous. Its a sharp 90 degree turn, and if you are hard into the throttle, that is a recipe for disaster.

 

[4WD]

View attachment 167219

Looks like you can get a base model Wagoneer L with that engine for $70K. Honestly that isn’t terrible considering the space, towing capabilities and the segment it competes in.

420 HP … about like a 6.2L … we will see lower HP turbo offerings including the GM 2.7L in the lower priced units …

 

[4WD]

I think they look pretty nice all blacked-out:
View attachment 167337
View attachment 167338
View attachment 167339

Though I do agree that the rear windows look funky.

Those windows ruin the look - front is nice - side not so much …