The next time you hear someone complain about big oil not paying taxes think of this. http://seekingalpha.com/article/63131-exxon-s-2007-tax-bill-30-billion?source=side_bar_editors_picks
Taxes
- Thread starter Bob Woods
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Kinda rare the truth gets out. Will this be in the Seattle Times or on NBC nightly? The "outrageous profit" was.
Exxon should try to lose money. Making money is Un-American.
Well, we also need to throw in the 50¢ or so per gallon of gas tax we consumers pay. Hmmm.... why haven't we made greater strides in fuel alternatives?
"Hmmm.... why haven't we made greater strides in fuel alternatives?"
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It's only been 35 years since the first gasoline crisis.
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It's only been 35 years since the first gasoline crisis.
House Atreides is still powerful in the West.
Originally Posted By: Bob Woods
The next time you hear someone complain about big oil not paying taxes think of this. http://seekingalpha.com/article/63131-exxon-s-2007-tax-bill-30-billion?source=side_bar_editors_picks
Exxon doesn't pay taxes they just pass the expense on to their customers. Their customers pay Exxon's taxes. Exxon's profits go up, their taxes go up, the customer pays for both.
The next time you hear someone complain about big oil not paying taxes think of this. http://seekingalpha.com/article/63131-exxon-s-2007-tax-bill-30-billion?source=side_bar_editors_picks
Exxon doesn't pay taxes they just pass the expense on to their customers. Their customers pay Exxon's taxes. Exxon's profits go up, their taxes go up, the customer pays for both.
Originally Posted By: XS650
Bob Woods said:
Originally Posted By: Bob Woods
Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: XS650
Bob Woods said:
XS650Exxon doesn't pay taxes they just pass the expense on to their customers. Their customers pay Exxon's taxes. Exxon's profits go up said:
It's circularity.
Money is debt, a card house. The card house doesn't fall down as long as the "economy" expands, allowing the interest on that debt to be "paid off", as there is more worth being "created".
Tax on the companies, employees, purchasers skims a bit off the growth to keep the wheel turning. The proportion of growth taken from which section either stimulates or retards interest in that section.
Take too much from business, they go into Property, too much on consumption, people save, reducing purchasing, and the ability of business to sell goods.
Can't say that any particular party pays, as they all "pay". There is no "end" to the snake swallowing it's tail.
Alternative is the endless issuing of currency to fund Govt activity.
(I think)
Money is debt, a card house. The card house doesn't fall down as long as the "economy" expands, allowing the interest on that debt to be "paid off", as there is more worth being "created".
Tax on the companies, employees, purchasers skims a bit off the growth to keep the wheel turning. The proportion of growth taken from which section either stimulates or retards interest in that section.
Take too much from business, they go into Property, too much on consumption, people save, reducing purchasing, and the ability of business to sell goods.
Can't say that any particular party pays, as they all "pay". There is no "end" to the snake swallowing it's tail.
Alternative is the endless issuing of currency to fund Govt activity.
(I think)
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Originally Posted By: lovcom
Originally Posted By: Bob Woods
Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: Bob Woods
Originally Posted By: XS650
Bob Woods said:
I calculate the tax load by looking at the amount taken when two people trade goods or services. In Ontario, there is 8% sales tax on used cars. But that's just one half of the transaction. Money is useless by itself, so you have to spend it. When you trade the pieces of paper for something useful, you're hit with the tax again.
Suppose you drive a large car, but you're single with no kids. You meet a couple who owns a Smart Fortwo, but the woman just found she's carrying twins, and they will need a large car. It's a match made in heaven, since you could use the gas saving Smart car, and they could use your large car. Swapping cars sounds so easy. BUT you're faced with the tax system. To swap cars, you have to first sell your car to them (8% tax). Then you buy their car with the money they gave you (another 8% tax). The total tax taken is 16%.
Suppose I want to trade one hour of my time, worth maybe $30, for a birthday cake of the same value. I have to earn $56.50, to be left with $33.90 after income tax. Then I find a $30 birthday cake, and have to pay $3.90 sales tax on it (13% total sales tax). To buy a $30 item in Ontario, you have to work 88% more, to pay the tax.
Suppose you drive a large car, but you're single with no kids. You meet a couple who owns a Smart Fortwo, but the woman just found she's carrying twins, and they will need a large car. It's a match made in heaven, since you could use the gas saving Smart car, and they could use your large car. Swapping cars sounds so easy. BUT you're faced with the tax system. To swap cars, you have to first sell your car to them (8% tax). Then you buy their car with the money they gave you (another 8% tax). The total tax taken is 16%.
Suppose I want to trade one hour of my time, worth maybe $30, for a birthday cake of the same value. I have to earn $56.50, to be left with $33.90 after income tax. Then I find a $30 birthday cake, and have to pay $3.90 sales tax on it (13% total sales tax). To buy a $30 item in Ontario, you have to work 88% more, to pay the tax.
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Quote:
Suppose I want to trade one hour of my time, worth maybe $30, for a birthday cake of the same value. I have to earn $56.50, to be left with $33.90 after income tax. Then I find a $30 birthday cake, and have to pay $3.90 sales tax on it (13% total sales tax). To buy a $30 item in Ontario, you have to work 88% more, to pay the tax.
Then you're not trading an hour of your time. You're trading $33.90 in $$ for a cake that has a $30 price tag on it. It just takes you almost 2 hours to earn that much spendable cash. The rest of it is just vapor money anyway. It implies that you get NO VALUE out of the time spent supporting the environment with taxation.
Suppose I want to trade one hour of my time, worth maybe $30, for a birthday cake of the same value. I have to earn $56.50, to be left with $33.90 after income tax. Then I find a $30 birthday cake, and have to pay $3.90 sales tax on it (13% total sales tax). To buy a $30 item in Ontario, you have to work 88% more, to pay the tax.
Then you're not trading an hour of your time. You're trading $33.90 in $$ for a cake that has a $30 price tag on it. It just takes you almost 2 hours to earn that much spendable cash. The rest of it is just vapor money anyway. It implies that you get NO VALUE out of the time spent supporting the environment with taxation.
The 88% extra work exposes me to 88% extra risk to my health, so the health care stuff goes out the window. Let's not forget that almost everything is also more expensive here, because of all the taxes, so you pay more tax, on higher prices.
In my family, I could ask someone to bake me a cake, worth about $30, and I would do them a favour such as doing an hour's worth of plumbing work, in exchange. No need to work 2x as hard for that cake, if people stick together.
There is a financial benefit to *some entity* when families break up, and couples divorce.
I'm happy to pay taxes if I see the benefit, but when Canada still sends foreign aid money to China, it makes me mad.
In my family, I could ask someone to bake me a cake, worth about $30, and I would do them a favour such as doing an hour's worth of plumbing work, in exchange. No need to work 2x as hard for that cake, if people stick together.
There is a financial benefit to *some entity* when families break up, and couples divorce.
I'm happy to pay taxes if I see the benefit, but when Canada still sends foreign aid money to China, it makes me mad.
oh.. forgot to add the other car's value in the swap calculation, so its only 8%. But still, used items should not have sales tax on them, since it has already been paid when the car was first bought.
Originally Posted By: oilyriser
oh.. forgot to add the other car's value in the swap calculation, so its only 8%. But still, used items should not have sales tax on them, since it has already been paid when the car was first bought.
I assume your jurisdiction applies sales tax on blue book value of the car, when it's a private party sale? What's to stop you from buying the smart for a dollar then selling the sedan for same?
I hear this is popping up more and more, because the government assumes fraud, because a private party car sell for less than one from a dealer-- which has to pass safety and emissions testing, might have a warranty, yadda yadda.
If I bought a fixer upper, paid sales tax like it was in good shape, then paid sales tax on the parts to make it roadworthy, I'd be doubly taxed.
I should shut my mouth, as my jurisdiction seems to enjoy not actually raising any percentage rates of taxes, but widening the net to catch more stuff. Gym fees recently were on the table.
oh.. forgot to add the other car's value in the swap calculation, so its only 8%. But still, used items should not have sales tax on them, since it has already been paid when the car was first bought.
I assume your jurisdiction applies sales tax on blue book value of the car, when it's a private party sale? What's to stop you from buying the smart for a dollar then selling the sedan for same?
I hear this is popping up more and more, because the government assumes fraud, because a private party car sell for less than one from a dealer-- which has to pass safety and emissions testing, might have a warranty, yadda yadda.
If I bought a fixer upper, paid sales tax like it was in good shape, then paid sales tax on the parts to make it roadworthy, I'd be doubly taxed.
I should shut my mouth, as my jurisdiction seems to enjoy not actually raising any percentage rates of taxes, but widening the net to catch more stuff. Gym fees recently were on the table.
Yes, they go by "red book" value, unless both parties sign affidavits saying the car is worth less than that, due to mechanical condition etc.
This is another factor that keeps people driving their SUV's, rather than selling them to someone who can make efficient use out of them.
This is another factor that keeps people driving their SUV's, rather than selling them to someone who can make efficient use out of them.
This is where dealers have an advantage here.
If you trade vehicles at the dealer, you only pay sales tax on the difference between the two vehicles.
So if you buy a $20K car, and get $10K trade allowance, then you pay sales tax only on the $10K difference.
So there is some additional benefit for buying from the dealer. If your tax rate is 7%, then you would have to get more than $10,700 in a private party sale to equal $10K trade allowance from the dealer.
Older cars, we pay a flat $25 sales tax after a certain age.
Also, there are special tax rates if you buy from immediate family, like parents, so cars can be passed from parent to child without having to pay the going tax rate.
I sure like IL better than MO, where you pay personal property tax every year you own the vehicle.
However, I don't think there are any tax advantages to leasing here in IL, as you pay sales tax for the entire vehicle, even if you are only using part of it's value.
I haven't really purchased anything other than "old" used cars in IL private party transactions, so I rarely pay more than the $25 sales tax. Newer used cars have always been purchased at the dealer and tax collected on that deal.
I think we have a table to calculate value | sales tax based on the model year for private party transactions to reduce fraud such as claiming the sales price was $1.
If you trade vehicles at the dealer, you only pay sales tax on the difference between the two vehicles.
So if you buy a $20K car, and get $10K trade allowance, then you pay sales tax only on the $10K difference.
So there is some additional benefit for buying from the dealer. If your tax rate is 7%, then you would have to get more than $10,700 in a private party sale to equal $10K trade allowance from the dealer.
Older cars, we pay a flat $25 sales tax after a certain age.
Also, there are special tax rates if you buy from immediate family, like parents, so cars can be passed from parent to child without having to pay the going tax rate.
I sure like IL better than MO, where you pay personal property tax every year you own the vehicle.
However, I don't think there are any tax advantages to leasing here in IL, as you pay sales tax for the entire vehicle, even if you are only using part of it's value.
I haven't really purchased anything other than "old" used cars in IL private party transactions, so I rarely pay more than the $25 sales tax. Newer used cars have always been purchased at the dealer and tax collected on that deal.
I think we have a table to calculate value | sales tax based on the model year for private party transactions to reduce fraud such as claiming the sales price was $1.
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