Synthetic Rotella 5W-40 in a Suzuki Bandit 600s???

[Kiel2219]

Will Synthetic Shell Rotella 5W-40 be OK in my Suzuki Bandit 600s? The Oil cap on my bike calls for 10W-40.
Will Synthetic 5W-40 be OK in my bike year all year 'round? (I live in Florida)
By the way, I'm the most concerned about not harming my engine above anything else.
Thanks!

 

[G-MAN]

I think Rotella 5w40 would do fine if 10w40 is recommended.

 

[TimVipond]

I'd read this report http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf and go with one of the top ones. If you read your owners manual you will see that a JASO MA oil is required, which I don't see listed on any diesel oil product. You are taking unnecessary chances with oils that are not formulated for or tested in motorcycles. Even within motorcycle formulated oils there are large differences between them.

 

[KBFXDLI]

If the manufacturer wants a 10w in there I would not use a 5w. But that's just me.

 

[Norm Olt]

No problem with this very fine oil, but in Florida I'd just use a dino HDEO 15W-40 like Delo, Rotella-T, LongLife, etc.

My niece has a 2000 Bandit, as I recall they don't even require you to change the filter every OCI...

Cheers!

 

[brucelee]

Since the Bandit is air cooled, I would suggest Red Line over Rotella.

I think the RL would do better at very high temps.

Good luck

 

[wileyE]

Quote:

---

I'd read this report http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf and go with one of the top ones. If you read your owners manual you will see that a JASO MA oil is required, which I don't see listed on any diesel oil product. You are taking unnecessary chances with oils that are not formulated for or tested in motorcycles. Even within motorcycle formulated oils there are large differences between them.

---

Tim, So what if we cannot, or prefer not to use amsoil? what would your next pick be? Also if Jaso is such a big part of amsoils marketing, why haven't they submitted for certification and "got on the list". Or are we just supposed to take there word for it?
Current JASO MA oils: http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV_LIST.pdf

 

[TimVipond]

My second choice for a motorcycle oil would depend on which motorcycle. I am very familiar and tried several oils for my K1200LT. I decided AMSOIL was my best choice. I'd probably pick the BMW synthetic as my second choice since I've read about some high mileage success stories using double the BMW recommended oil change interval, the price is fair and readily available. A big deal for me as I don't want to change oil and filter every 6,000 miles when I ride up to 36,000 miles a year. And I want a warranty. A lot of BMW K1200LT riders on the forum I participate in use these two oils and they have good reputations and results.

For another bike, I'd spend alot of time on forums that pertain to that motorcycle so I could get some insight as to what people are doing and the oils they like. I'd also refer to the AMSOIL Motorcycle report and probably eliminate the bottom half right off the bat. For the above mentioned Suzuki, I'd consider the Synthetic Suzuki oil that just came out. I've heard from one rider that it performed as well as AMSOIL in his Suzuki cruiser. I've tried to find the data sheet for this oil, but haven't found one yet. If I could, I'd compare the properties to other oils I'd consider. Once I narrowed my decision down to two oils, I'd try them both.

For me, the JASO MA was not an issue. I have a dry clutch on my bike. For others that have a wet clutch, I consider JASO MA a must. In the past I've had to replace wet clutches when I used Shell Rotella and Mobil 1, when if I had used a motorcycle specific oil with JASO MA, I might not have. I had just started using AMSOIL car oil in my ST1100 right before the JASO MA standard came out in 1998, and decided I better switch to a motorcycle specific JASO MA oil, so went to Mobil1 motorcycle oil.

Even though AMSOIL may not certify through JASO, I feel very comfortable knowing they have formulated and done the JASO MA testing for their motorcycle specific oils. I have heard that in a few Yamaha dirt bikes and cruisers with weakly designed and worn clutches, that the Yamalube oil seems to make the wet clutches slip less than AMSOIL. But I also regularly ride with many other Yamaha riders that notice a big improvement in shifting, lower temps, less vibration, better performance with AMSOIL over Yamalube.

 

[G-MAN]

Just for those who don't know and are reading this thread, Harley's (except the V-Rod) don't share the engine oil with the transmission. Thus the issue of JASO MA and wet clutch applications does not apply to Harleys.

Harley doesn't mention JASO ratings in their owners manuals. They specifically recommend their own branded oils (big surprise) which carry NO API, ACEA, or JASO ratings at all. If you don't use Harley's branded oils, the only acceptable alternative listed in the owners manual are diesel rated (CI-4, CJ-4) grades. Also, Harley no longer recommends the use of motor oil in the transmission and primary. Their Formula+ fluid comes in the trans and primary from the factory.

 

[TimVipond]

Many Harley riders and Harley Davidson shops in the Houston and Austin area have preferred AMSOIL synthetic V-twin MCV motorcycle oil in the engine, primary and crankcase preferable to the Harley Davidson products for lower temperatures, better shifting and improved gas mileage. They meet Harley Davidson warranty requirements and AMSOIL warranties their oil and filters for double mileage Harley Davidson recomends or once a year whichever comes first. More info on AMSOIL's recommendations for Harley Davidsons can be found at https://www.amsoil.com/dealer/techservicesbulletin/TSB_SE_2004_10_1_HD.pdf .

 

[G-MAN]

I changed the factory fill in my 07 Sportster at 600 miles and put in Rotella T 15w40. First thing I noticed was an immediate reduction in top end noise. This has been reported before by others who have switched to Rotella.

Second thing I noticed was a rise in oil temps (not unexpected since HD is putting their Syn3 in at the factory now), but since my oil temp was running too low IMO, this was a welcomed change.

I'm planning to stick with HD's own Formula+ in the transmission/primary.

 

[TimVipond]

G-man,

Are you aware that Rotella T has been reformulated a few months ago from API CI-4+ and is now API CJ-4? There isn't any history on how this will work in motorcycles. I've heard alot of motorcyclists were going to hoard the CI-4+ version that was available a few months ago. You may wish to contact Shell and see if they recommend this new formulation in Harley Davidson motorcycles. Will they provide a warranty? Say hi to my buddy Larry Morrison if he answers the phone. Ask him if he still has his old Honda Nighthawk 650.

Also you might contact Harley to see if they recommend 15W40 API CJ-4 truck oils in their motorcycles. I thought they recommended 20W50? Will they warranty any oil related problems using this?

You may wish to have a virgin oil analysis done to compare the CI-4+ with this new CJ-4 oil to see the difference (lower) protective metals content. You may want to do a UOA to make sure nothing bad is going on. I've heard this newer engine will be harder on oils with the added horsepower, torque and higher temperatures.

I've heard that Harley's new Formula+ is a great improvement over their former recommendation of syn3. Does this Harley oil also come from Mr. Hugego Chaviz in Venezuela?

Let us know what you find out.

 

[wileyE]

Is the amsoil warranty "satisfaction or your money back, no questioned asked". Or is it "prove the oil caused the engine failure and we'll fix it". If it's the latter, it's the same thing any other company would give you. If it's a satisfaction warranty I've got a shelf full of product in the hangar I'd like to send back.

 

[TimVipond]

Here is a copy of AMSOIL's warranty https://www.amsoil.com/warranty.aspx .

Basically if the oil failed in a recommended application they pay for parts and labor to make it right. I don't know of any other oil company that would do that for 25,000 and 35,000 mile oil changes. Pennzoil Platinum, for example, only does it for up to 4,000 miles if you used their oil at your 1st oil change and if was under 36,000 miles and a 4 year or newer car and only covers 15 parts. And a bunch of other restrictions. http://www.pennzoil.com/warranty/warranty_faq.html .

There are no warranty complaints filed with the Better Business Bureau in the past 3 years for AMSOIL in Superior Wisconsin.

AMSOIL's return policy varies a little if you are a Catalog Customer, Preferred Customer, Retail Account or Commercial Account. Let me know which you are and I can likely get you a copy of the policy. Or work with your Dealer.

Which product weren't you satisfied with and why?

 

[G-MAN]

Quote:

---

G-man,

Are you aware that Rotella T has been reformulated a few months ago from API CI-4+ and is now API CJ-4?

---

Yes, I was aware of the change. I happen to think the new CJ-4 Rotella is a better oil than the old Rotella.

As for Shell's recommendation: They never recommended the old Rotella for use in motorcycles. Some guys have tried repeatedly to pin them down on that over on the Rotella forums to no avail. But the fact remains that many, many bike riders have used Rotella oil in Harleys and other bikes with great success. I surveyed the various Harley forums before I decided to go with Rotella. And based on Shell's published test data on the new Rotella, I had no qualms about using it.

 

[TimVipond]

I wish you well. I don't think AMSOIL is quite so sure the new CJ-4 is better and is really only recommending it for the engines that require it. Their first recommendation is for the CI-4+ for 2006 and older and are keeping their old product line in addition to the new diesel CJ-4. I think one of their concerns is the lower TBN mandate.

The new Harleys are getting better all the time. I think they have enough stock horsepower and torque to catch my interest. I've got a couple of friends that really like them.

Have you seen the new Victory Touring bike? Looks like a crossbreed between my K1200LT and your bike. Check it out at http://www.motorcycledaily.com/19january07_victory2008vision.htm . The March issue of Cycle World has a 2 page article on it that I haven't read yet. I'll let you know what it says if you are interested.

 

[G-MAN]

Quote:

---

Have you seen the new Victory Touring bike? Looks like a crossbreed between my K1200LT and your bike.

---

Yeah, I've seen pictures of the new Vision. I like the one without the center mounted hard bag.

 

[Jaybird]

Quote:

---

I wish you well. I don't think AMSOIL is quite so sure the new CJ-4 is better and is really only recommending it for the engines that require it. Their first recommendation is for the CI-4+ for 2006 and older and are keeping their old product line in addition to the new diesel CJ-4. I think one of their concerns is the lower TBN mandate.

The new Harleys are getting better all the time.

---

What TBN mandate are we talking about here?
I have seen no mandate on TBN level for a CJ4 oil.
I for one won't be calling Amsoil to find out what they recommend.
Nor will I be listening to the myths and misconceptions that have started with the newer CJ4 oils. They are every bit as misleading and dubious as the myths that started with the "Energy Conserving" certification.
I think it was Amsoil who published a piece not long ago that refuted claims of a reduction in phosphorus content as being a bad thing. And the GF4 requirements have limited the Phosphorus content to a min of .06% and max of .08%
Other than sulfer content, there are no other add pack requirements of a CJ4 oil.

Those who warn against the newer CJ4 certified fluids really need to study up before they start passing unverified myths and dubious warnings.

Just as the new Harleys are getting better, so are engine oils.

 

[TimVipond]

Jaybird - perhaps I can help you out with your reading homework. http://www.mbrservices.com/cooPPartners/viewArticle.cfm?ID=1649
"This new type of oil does more than replace CI-4 and CI-4 Plus, he explains. “New technologies and additive components were used to develop this engine oil with lower ash and total base number (TBN), while improving the performance qualities of previous oils.”
"One change in this new level of oils is that, by lowering the ash content, the TBN is lower than with previous products."

From http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/2006-01-3437

"The objectives of the field test discussed in this paper were to evaluate the impact of low-sulfur fuel and of a reduction in the TBN of the lubricant-on-lubricant degradation."

From http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/Files/Delvc_PC-10_FAQs.pdf .
"Since metallic
detergents are also the preferred TBN containing compounds in an oil, the
reduced ash explains why PC-10 oils will have lower TBN levels."

http://corporate.lubrizol.com/PressRoom/MediaCoverage/pdflibrary/June_Martin.pdf talks about how the new CJ4 oils will likely reduce oil change intervals with reduction of TBN for pre 2007 vehicles.

 

[G-MAN]

A discussion about TBN is really irrelevant for motorcycle use since very few bikers do extended drains. I know I won't.

The key to extended drains is TBN retention, not a HIGH initial TBN. In other words, an oil that starts with a TBN of 9 that has a TBN of 5 after 10,000 miles is a better oil than one that starts with a TBN of 14 and has a TBN of 5 after 10,000 miles.