Synthetic High Mileage - old vehicle - leaks?
- Thread starter OceanRuns
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Well, that's hogwash pure and simple. My father uses QSGB oils and has since before I was thought of. No engine slugging problems ever
Old myths don't die I see
Originally Posted By: OceanRuns
My understanding based on what I have read is synthetics don't 'cause' leaks. But, they can remove gunk, thus exposing leaks. And, they can flow faster out of existing leaks.
Does using synthetic high-mileage oil (like Mobil 1) counteract this with its seal swelling properties? Or, is it still a risky proposition that might result in more oil on the ground.
My question is primarily in regard to 30-40 year old vehicles. Assume some leaks already, and most likely never any synthetic used.
Good question OceanRuns, and it seems you are well-read on this subject! Yes, high mileage motor oils do have additional seal swell agents formulated into them, and these swelling agents are specifically designed to help lubricate and swell older seals to help address leakage concerns. A lot has been learned over the years about full synthetic formulations, and their effects on new and old engines. Rest assured, formulators have this stuff down to a science (so to speak)!
For example, Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage 5W-30 synthetic motor oil is specifically formulated and designed to help stop leaks from older seals, AND to deliver less oil burn off than other high mileage oils.
However, you mentioned “30-40 year old vehicles” – with that said, we might be more inclined to recommend a motor oil with higher ZDDP/anti-wear levels versus the lower levels that are found in today’s motor oils. For example, we regularly recommend an oil like Rotella T Triple Protection 15W-40 for older flat-tappet engines (or, if you want a synthetic, the Rotella T6 5W-40). Flat-tappet engines require higher ZDDP formulations and the Rotella products have approx. 1,200 ppm of zinc, while newer API SN/GF-5 motor oils have approx. 800 ppm of zinc.
To wrap up, there might be more to consider that just “leaking.” The newer full synthetic high mileage engine oils have leaking covered, but in your case you might want to consider a product that can provide higher ZDDP that your older engine might require. We hope this information is helpful! - The Pennzoil Team
My understanding based on what I have read is synthetics don't 'cause' leaks. But, they can remove gunk, thus exposing leaks. And, they can flow faster out of existing leaks.
Does using synthetic high-mileage oil (like Mobil 1) counteract this with its seal swelling properties? Or, is it still a risky proposition that might result in more oil on the ground.
My question is primarily in regard to 30-40 year old vehicles. Assume some leaks already, and most likely never any synthetic used.
Good question OceanRuns, and it seems you are well-read on this subject! Yes, high mileage motor oils do have additional seal swell agents formulated into them, and these swelling agents are specifically designed to help lubricate and swell older seals to help address leakage concerns. A lot has been learned over the years about full synthetic formulations, and their effects on new and old engines. Rest assured, formulators have this stuff down to a science (so to speak)!
For example, Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage 5W-30 synthetic motor oil is specifically formulated and designed to help stop leaks from older seals, AND to deliver less oil burn off than other high mileage oils.
However, you mentioned “30-40 year old vehicles” – with that said, we might be more inclined to recommend a motor oil with higher ZDDP/anti-wear levels versus the lower levels that are found in today’s motor oils. For example, we regularly recommend an oil like Rotella T Triple Protection 15W-40 for older flat-tappet engines (or, if you want a synthetic, the Rotella T6 5W-40). Flat-tappet engines require higher ZDDP formulations and the Rotella products have approx. 1,200 ppm of zinc, while newer API SN/GF-5 motor oils have approx. 800 ppm of zinc.
To wrap up, there might be more to consider that just “leaking.” The newer full synthetic high mileage engine oils have leaking covered, but in your case you might want to consider a product that can provide higher ZDDP that your older engine might require. We hope this information is helpful! - The Pennzoil Team
2 years ago I put synthetic oil in my 99 Caravan. It ran on conventional oil with 8,000 OCI until then and it had a slight leak. Immediately the leaks became large. No amount of seal swelling agents will slow the leaks down. It sits in my driveway with a pan under right now.
I would never put synthetic oil in an old car unless the engine had just been rebuilt.
I would never put synthetic oil in an old car unless the engine had just been rebuilt.
Originally Posted By: GenaFishbeck
Originally Posted By: OceanRuns
My understanding based on what I have read is synthetics don't 'cause' leaks. But, they can remove gunk, thus exposing leaks. And, they can flow faster out of existing leaks.
Does using synthetic high-mileage oil (like Mobil 1) counteract this with its seal swelling properties? Or, is it still a risky proposition that might result in more oil on the ground.
My question is primarily in regard to 30-40 year old vehicles. Assume some leaks already, and most likely never any synthetic used.
Good question OceanRuns, and it seems you are well-read on this subject! Yes, high mileage motor oils do have additional seal swell agents formulated into them, and these swelling agents are specifically designed to help lubricate and swell older seals to help address leakage concerns. A lot has been learned over the years about full synthetic formulations, and their effects on new and old engines. Rest assured, formulators have this stuff down to a science (so to speak)!
For example, Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage 5W-30 synthetic motor oil is specifically formulated and designed to help stop leaks from older seals, AND to deliver less oil burn off than other high mileage oils.
However, you mentioned “30-40 year old vehicles” – with that said, we might be more inclined to recommend a motor oil with higher ZDDP/anti-wear levels versus the lower levels that are found in today’s motor oils. For example, we regularly recommend an oil like Rotella T Triple Protection 15W-40 for older flat-tappet engines (or, if you want a synthetic, the Rotella T6 5W-40). Flat-tappet engines require higher ZDDP formulations and the Rotella products have approx. 1,200 ppm of zinc, while newer API SN/GF-5 motor oils have approx. 800 ppm of zinc.
To wrap up, there might be more to consider that just “leaking.” The newer full synthetic high mileage engine oils have leaking covered, but in your case you might want to consider a product that can provide higher ZDDP that your older engine might require. We hope this information is helpful! - The Pennzoil Team
Gena, what are your thoughts on switching to a HM oil as a preventative measure to prevent future leaks, even if you don't currently have any? As the engine ages, seals will deteriorate and not all are of the same quality. I've thought about using a HM oil after 3-4 years just to keep seals in a better condition then they normally would be using a regular synthetic oil (which containe seal conditioners, but just not as much). Thanks
Originally Posted By: OceanRuns
My understanding based on what I have read is synthetics don't 'cause' leaks. But, they can remove gunk, thus exposing leaks. And, they can flow faster out of existing leaks.
Does using synthetic high-mileage oil (like Mobil 1) counteract this with its seal swelling properties? Or, is it still a risky proposition that might result in more oil on the ground.
My question is primarily in regard to 30-40 year old vehicles. Assume some leaks already, and most likely never any synthetic used.
Good question OceanRuns, and it seems you are well-read on this subject! Yes, high mileage motor oils do have additional seal swell agents formulated into them, and these swelling agents are specifically designed to help lubricate and swell older seals to help address leakage concerns. A lot has been learned over the years about full synthetic formulations, and their effects on new and old engines. Rest assured, formulators have this stuff down to a science (so to speak)!
For example, Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage 5W-30 synthetic motor oil is specifically formulated and designed to help stop leaks from older seals, AND to deliver less oil burn off than other high mileage oils.
However, you mentioned “30-40 year old vehicles” – with that said, we might be more inclined to recommend a motor oil with higher ZDDP/anti-wear levels versus the lower levels that are found in today’s motor oils. For example, we regularly recommend an oil like Rotella T Triple Protection 15W-40 for older flat-tappet engines (or, if you want a synthetic, the Rotella T6 5W-40). Flat-tappet engines require higher ZDDP formulations and the Rotella products have approx. 1,200 ppm of zinc, while newer API SN/GF-5 motor oils have approx. 800 ppm of zinc.
To wrap up, there might be more to consider that just “leaking.” The newer full synthetic high mileage engine oils have leaking covered, but in your case you might want to consider a product that can provide higher ZDDP that your older engine might require. We hope this information is helpful! - The Pennzoil Team
Gena, what are your thoughts on switching to a HM oil as a preventative measure to prevent future leaks, even if you don't currently have any? As the engine ages, seals will deteriorate and not all are of the same quality. I've thought about using a HM oil after 3-4 years just to keep seals in a better condition then they normally would be using a regular synthetic oil (which containe seal conditioners, but just not as much). Thanks
Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: GenaFishbeck
Originally Posted By: OceanRuns
My understanding based on what I have read is synthetics don't 'cause' leaks. But, they can remove gunk, thus exposing leaks. And, they can flow faster out of existing leaks.
Does using synthetic high-mileage oil (like Mobil 1) counteract this with its seal swelling properties? Or, is it still a risky proposition that might result in more oil on the ground.
My question is primarily in regard to 30-40 year old vehicles. Assume some leaks already, and most likely never any synthetic used.
Good question OceanRuns, and it seems you are well-read on this subject! Yes, high mileage motor oils do have additional seal swell agents formulated into them, and these swelling agents are specifically designed to help lubricate and swell older seals to help address leakage concerns. A lot has been learned over the years about full synthetic formulations, and their effects on new and old engines. Rest assured, formulators have this stuff down to a science (so to speak)!
For example, Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage 5W-30 synthetic motor oil is specifically formulated and designed to help stop leaks from older seals, AND to deliver less oil burn off than other high mileage oils.
However, you mentioned “30-40 year old vehicles” – with that said, we might be more inclined to recommend a motor oil with higher ZDDP/anti-wear levels versus the lower levels that are found in today’s motor oils. For example, we regularly recommend an oil like Rotella T Triple Protection 15W-40 for older flat-tappet engines (or, if you want a synthetic, the Rotella T6 5W-40). Flat-tappet engines require higher ZDDP formulations and the Rotella products have approx. 1,200 ppm of zinc, while newer API SN/GF-5 motor oils have approx. 800 ppm of zinc.
To wrap up, there might be more to consider that just “leaking.” The newer full synthetic high mileage engine oils have leaking covered, but in your case you might want to consider a product that can provide higher ZDDP that your older engine might require. We hope this information is helpful! - The Pennzoil Team
Gena, what are your thoughts on switching to a HM oil as a preventative measure to prevent future leaks, even if you don't currently have any? As the engine ages, seals will deteriorate and not all are of the same quality. I've thought about using a HM oil after 3-4 years just to keep seals in a better condition then they normally would be using a regular synthetic oil (which containe seal conditioners, but just not as much). Thanks
Hey buster - if you’re changing your oil when you should be and keeping up with regular engine maintenance, there’s no need to prematurely start using a high mileage motor oil. You probably don’t need to use a high mileage oil until at least 100,000 miles. Hope this info helps! – The Pennzoil Team
Originally Posted By: GenaFishbeck
Originally Posted By: OceanRuns
My understanding based on what I have read is synthetics don't 'cause' leaks. But, they can remove gunk, thus exposing leaks. And, they can flow faster out of existing leaks.
Does using synthetic high-mileage oil (like Mobil 1) counteract this with its seal swelling properties? Or, is it still a risky proposition that might result in more oil on the ground.
My question is primarily in regard to 30-40 year old vehicles. Assume some leaks already, and most likely never any synthetic used.
Good question OceanRuns, and it seems you are well-read on this subject! Yes, high mileage motor oils do have additional seal swell agents formulated into them, and these swelling agents are specifically designed to help lubricate and swell older seals to help address leakage concerns. A lot has been learned over the years about full synthetic formulations, and their effects on new and old engines. Rest assured, formulators have this stuff down to a science (so to speak)!
For example, Pennzoil Platinum High Mileage 5W-30 synthetic motor oil is specifically formulated and designed to help stop leaks from older seals, AND to deliver less oil burn off than other high mileage oils.
However, you mentioned “30-40 year old vehicles” – with that said, we might be more inclined to recommend a motor oil with higher ZDDP/anti-wear levels versus the lower levels that are found in today’s motor oils. For example, we regularly recommend an oil like Rotella T Triple Protection 15W-40 for older flat-tappet engines (or, if you want a synthetic, the Rotella T6 5W-40). Flat-tappet engines require higher ZDDP formulations and the Rotella products have approx. 1,200 ppm of zinc, while newer API SN/GF-5 motor oils have approx. 800 ppm of zinc.
To wrap up, there might be more to consider that just “leaking.” The newer full synthetic high mileage engine oils have leaking covered, but in your case you might want to consider a product that can provide higher ZDDP that your older engine might require. We hope this information is helpful! - The Pennzoil Team
Gena, what are your thoughts on switching to a HM oil as a preventative measure to prevent future leaks, even if you don't currently have any? As the engine ages, seals will deteriorate and not all are of the same quality. I've thought about using a HM oil after 3-4 years just to keep seals in a better condition then they normally would be using a regular synthetic oil (which containe seal conditioners, but just not as much). Thanks
Hey buster - if you’re changing your oil when you should be and keeping up with regular engine maintenance, there’s no need to prematurely start using a high mileage motor oil. You probably don’t need to use a high mileage oil until at least 100,000 miles. Hope this info helps! – The Pennzoil Team
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: zray
Originally Posted By: jdavis
I don't really see the point in using Syn in a 30-40 year old vehicle that's never had/needed it..
Wow. Are you some kind of new car snob ? Just because an engine has never had a synthetic oil change certainly does not mean it doesn't need it.
Jeez.
U
Every engine can make use of a quality synthetic oil. In fact, old cars probably need it more than the new ones. Without modern fuel injection vintage cars are likely to be running a A/F ratio that is not optimal, a prime candidate for accelerated wear. A good synthetic can mitigate some of this wear much more effectively than a conventional oil.
Z
A properly jetted carb isn't much worse than fuel injection. More wear is a dream.
As we've seen via used oil analysis wear rarely increases as fuel dilution increases. They aren't linear.
And conventional oils aren't any worse when it comes to wear control. In fact there is a strong case that wear s controlled better using conventional oils,they just don't last as long in service.
Wives tales
Hmm, i thought you said you can't track wear with uoas.
Originally Posted By: zray
Originally Posted By: jdavis
I don't really see the point in using Syn in a 30-40 year old vehicle that's never had/needed it..
Wow. Are you some kind of new car snob ? Just because an engine has never had a synthetic oil change certainly does not mean it doesn't need it.
Jeez.
U
Every engine can make use of a quality synthetic oil. In fact, old cars probably need it more than the new ones. Without modern fuel injection vintage cars are likely to be running a A/F ratio that is not optimal, a prime candidate for accelerated wear. A good synthetic can mitigate some of this wear much more effectively than a conventional oil.
Z
A properly jetted carb isn't much worse than fuel injection. More wear is a dream.
As we've seen via used oil analysis wear rarely increases as fuel dilution increases. They aren't linear.
And conventional oils aren't any worse when it comes to wear control. In fact there is a strong case that wear s controlled better using conventional oils,they just don't last as long in service.
Wives tales
Hmm, i thought you said you can't track wear with uoas.
Originally Posted By: zach1900
I have yet to see proof that synthetics clean better. In my anecdotal experience oils like pyb seem to clean better.
I have yet to see proof of PYB cleaning anything except the marketing on the bottle.
I have yet to see proof that synthetics clean better. In my anecdotal experience oils like pyb seem to clean better.
I have yet to see proof of PYB cleaning anything except the marketing on the bottle.
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Originally Posted By: zach1900
I have yet to see proof that synthetics clean better. In my anecdotal experience oils like pyb seem to clean better.
I have yet to see proof of PYB cleaning anything except the marketing on the bottle.
Well all modern detergent oil cleans so its legitimate for Penn to make the claim.
Originally Posted By: zach1900
I have yet to see proof that synthetics clean better. In my anecdotal experience oils like pyb seem to clean better.
I have yet to see proof of PYB cleaning anything except the marketing on the bottle.
Well all modern detergent oil cleans so its legitimate for Penn to make the claim.
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Originally Posted By: zach1900
I have yet to see proof that synthetics clean better. In my anecdotal experience oils like pyb seem to clean better.
I have yet to see proof of PYB cleaning anything except the marketing on the bottle.
I was recently talking to a service mgr at a Pep Boys and he switched his standard oil change from PYB to another brand (maybe ProLine?) because customers were complaining their oil was getting dirty too fast with PYB. Draw your own conclusion.
Originally Posted By: zach1900
I have yet to see proof that synthetics clean better. In my anecdotal experience oils like pyb seem to clean better.
I have yet to see proof of PYB cleaning anything except the marketing on the bottle.
I was recently talking to a service mgr at a Pep Boys and he switched his standard oil change from PYB to another brand (maybe ProLine?) because customers were complaining their oil was getting dirty too fast with PYB. Draw your own conclusion.
Originally Posted By: bigt61
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Originally Posted By: zach1900
I have yet to see proof that synthetics clean better. In my anecdotal experience oils like pyb seem to clean better.
I have yet to see proof of PYB cleaning anything except the marketing on the bottle.
I was recently talking to a service mgr at a Pep Boys and he switched his standard oil change from PYB to another brand (maybe ProLine?) because customers were complaining their oil was getting dirty too fast with PYB. Draw your own conclusion.
Unless there's something I just don't get, I cant see why one oil would get dirty any faster than another under the same circumstances unless it was cleaning better than the other.
So for now my conclusion is pyb really does clean very well. Or maybe that guy was just blowing smoke
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
Originally Posted By: zach1900
I have yet to see proof that synthetics clean better. In my anecdotal experience oils like pyb seem to clean better.
I have yet to see proof of PYB cleaning anything except the marketing on the bottle.
I was recently talking to a service mgr at a Pep Boys and he switched his standard oil change from PYB to another brand (maybe ProLine?) because customers were complaining their oil was getting dirty too fast with PYB. Draw your own conclusion.
Unless there's something I just don't get, I cant see why one oil would get dirty any faster than another under the same circumstances unless it was cleaning better than the other.
So for now my conclusion is pyb really does clean very well. Or maybe that guy was just blowing smoke
My experience supports the idea that synthetics, Mobil 1 in my case, can slightly increase oil leaks in some older vehicles, a TR6 in my case. I run quality synthetics in all of my toys and, the old British ones at least, all leaked a little beforehand and still leak a little now. I'll trade having to clean my drip pans on occasion for the benefits of a quality synthetic oil.
As far as actual cleaning experience, ~20 years ago I adjusted the valves on my 6 when I first got it (it had Castrol GTX 20w-50 for most if not all of the 30k miles on it at the time) and the valve cover had a very slight coating of varnish with a little bit of normal sticky deposits near the crankcase breather. I cleaned the cover and switched to M1 15w-50. I had the cover off to adjust the valves again this Winter...absolutely clean.
As someone mentioned, choosing the oil w/ the appropriate additive levels is much more important for a vintage vehicle.
As far as actual cleaning experience, ~20 years ago I adjusted the valves on my 6 when I first got it (it had Castrol GTX 20w-50 for most if not all of the 30k miles on it at the time) and the valve cover had a very slight coating of varnish with a little bit of normal sticky deposits near the crankcase breather. I cleaned the cover and switched to M1 15w-50. I had the cover off to adjust the valves again this Winter...absolutely clean.
As someone mentioned, choosing the oil w/ the appropriate additive levels is much more important for a vintage vehicle.
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