Decided to give a SuperTech ST7313 one more try on my '07 Nissan Altima 2.5S...same results: noisy-rough start-up. Couldn't stand it, so I installed a NAPA Select @ $4.99 after a couple weeks. Ahhh...purrs like a kitten now! Not sure why this engine does not like the SuperTech oil filter...
SuperTech start up noise...
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musta been a weak or bad anti drainback valve on the filter.
Never had any problems with the ST 7317 on my in-law's Sentra, Frontier, my wife's Mirage or my Civic, but the Mirage didn't like the Fram Extended Guard. I thought the Altima would call for the 6607 which is the shorter version of the 7317.
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Mine wife's engine rattled with an EaO ..and a PureOne ..and I will speculate any filter. The horizontal orientation just defies remedy. YMMV be it nitrile or silicon.
Seems like there have been quite a few reports lately of engine start-up noises when using ST filters.
What kind of ambient temperatures are these cold start-ups? Like Gary eluded to ... maybe the nitrile rubber used in the STs doesn't like the cold weather.
What kind of ambient temperatures are these cold start-ups? Like Gary eluded to ... maybe the nitrile rubber used in the STs doesn't like the cold weather.
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
Seems like there have been quite a few reports lately of engine start-up noises when using ST filters.
What kind of ambient temperatures are these cold start-ups? Like Gary eluded to ... maybe the nitrile rubber used in the STs doesn't like the cold weather.
My experience was in the Spring about 70 degrees or so.
Seems like there have been quite a few reports lately of engine start-up noises when using ST filters.
What kind of ambient temperatures are these cold start-ups? Like Gary eluded to ... maybe the nitrile rubber used in the STs doesn't like the cold weather.
My experience was in the Spring about 70 degrees or so.
Hey, my Nissan Frontier has an essentially horizontal filter as does my wife's Saturn (cartridge type) and neither shows any issues on startup noise. I tend to think it is filter design rather than position.
My cav has a horizontal filter, and I don't really have any bad noises on startup. Occasionally if I don't hold the key long enough, or its sat for almost 2 weeks, it runs really rough and feels/sounds like it's not firing on all cylinders. All I have to do is gently push down the gas a bit, to get the RPMs up a bit, and it smooths out immediately. Not a problem with lubrication, I would wager.
With the cheap THIN media in the ST one shouldn't have no issues with them,flow should be above excellent.
Originally Posted By: daman
With the cheap THIN media in the ST one shouldn't have no issues with them,flow should be above excellent.
Probably more to do with the ADBV than the media.
I've got a Nissan Altima V6 with horizontal filter, and a Toyota Tacoma with a base down filter, and neither one makes any kind of start up noises, even after sitting for a week.
I think the engines that are sensitive to lack of oil on initial start up is a big factor in what engines make start up noise and which ones don't. The very sensitive ones will probably make some noise with just about any oil filter used on them.
With the cheap THIN media in the ST one shouldn't have no issues with them,flow should be above excellent.
Probably more to do with the ADBV than the media.
I've got a Nissan Altima V6 with horizontal filter, and a Toyota Tacoma with a base down filter, and neither one makes any kind of start up noises, even after sitting for a week.
I think the engines that are sensitive to lack of oil on initial start up is a big factor in what engines make start up noise and which ones don't. The very sensitive ones will probably make some noise with just about any oil filter used on them.
Originally Posted By: daman
With the cheap THIN media in the ST one shouldn't have no issues with them,flow should be above excellent.
ADBV more than media, I find the Ecores have generous media in most applications.
With the cheap THIN media in the ST one shouldn't have no issues with them,flow should be above excellent.
ADBV more than media, I find the Ecores have generous media in most applications.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Mine wife's engine rattled with an EaO ..and a PureOne ..and I will speculate any filter. The horizontal orientation just defies remedy. YMMV be it nitrile or silicon.
My wife's Altima has the 2.4L engine (KA24DE), and we're just used to the start-up rattle.
I've heard the same noise on other Altimas, so I don't get too worked up about it, either.
Mine wife's engine rattled with an EaO ..and a PureOne ..and I will speculate any filter. The horizontal orientation just defies remedy. YMMV be it nitrile or silicon.
My wife's Altima has the 2.4L engine (KA24DE), and we're just used to the start-up rattle.
I've heard the same noise on other Altimas, so I don't get too worked up about it, either.
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This brings up a point I have mentioned before. For the level or dome up filters, how does the air ever get out? When the filter fills from the bottom, the air will be trapped and compress until its pressure equals that of the oil. When the pressure drops, the air will expand pushing the oil out. Even with a rock solid ADBV, when the engine is shut off, it can go out the outlet and through the galleries and out the bearings. Thus leaving the filter and passageways empty. Arugh!
I see no reason that would vary with the brand of filter. Air wouldn't leak out the dome of even a Fram. Thoughts?
Our grandaughter is being Baptized Sunday. I may not be online much this weekend.
I see no reason that would vary with the brand of filter. Air wouldn't leak out the dome of even a Fram. Thoughts?
Our grandaughter is being Baptized Sunday. I may not be online much this weekend.
Originally Posted By: labman
This brings up a point I have mentioned before. For the level or dome up filters, how does the air ever get out? When the filter fills from the bottom, the air will be trapped and compress until its pressure equals that of the oil. When the pressure drops, the air will expand pushing the oil out.
I believe any air is quickly pushed out of the filter regardless of the filters orientation. The oil flow in the filter is moving pretty fast at higher engine RPM, and the flow turbulence will not allow air to trap anywhere in the can.
Now if you S-L-O-W-L-Y filled the filter with oil and kept it static pressure with zero oil flow, then yes I would expect some trapped air.
This brings up a point I have mentioned before. For the level or dome up filters, how does the air ever get out? When the filter fills from the bottom, the air will be trapped and compress until its pressure equals that of the oil. When the pressure drops, the air will expand pushing the oil out.
I believe any air is quickly pushed out of the filter regardless of the filters orientation. The oil flow in the filter is moving pretty fast at higher engine RPM, and the flow turbulence will not allow air to trap anywhere in the can.
Now if you S-L-O-W-L-Y filled the filter with oil and kept it static pressure with zero oil flow, then yes I would expect some trapped air.
I still think this needs looking into. Think about how hard it can be to get air out of brake systems or coooling systems sometimes. I wonder if the bypass location has a effect, oil entering at the top through the bypass on a cold start would be more likely to push out the air. Were the noisy filters Ecores with thread end bypasses?
Originally Posted By: labman
I still think this needs looking into. Think about how hard it can be to get air out of brake systems or coooling systems sometimes.
A brake system doesn't really have any dynamic fluid flow ... it's a closed, dead-ended system that builds pressure - the only way to get trapped air out is to bleed the system. Most cooling systems I've seen will eventually work out any trapped air in the system with some dynamic flow through it.
Originally Posted By: labman
I wonder if the bypass location has a effect, oil entering at the top through the bypass on a cold start would be more likely to push out the air. Were the noisy filters Ecores with thread end bypasses?
Could be true if the bypass valve wasn't completely an air tight seal. A worse case scenario would be a filter completely vertical with the base down (ie, my Tacoma is this way). Even if air does get trapped at the top, it's just a small pocket between the end of the media and the top of the can. There will still be full oil flow through the filter media. After shutdown, the filter is going to drain out the center core the same and the ADBV is going to also work the same, regardless if there is a little pocket of trapped air at the top or not.
I still think this needs looking into. Think about how hard it can be to get air out of brake systems or coooling systems sometimes.
A brake system doesn't really have any dynamic fluid flow ... it's a closed, dead-ended system that builds pressure - the only way to get trapped air out is to bleed the system. Most cooling systems I've seen will eventually work out any trapped air in the system with some dynamic flow through it.
Originally Posted By: labman
I wonder if the bypass location has a effect, oil entering at the top through the bypass on a cold start would be more likely to push out the air. Were the noisy filters Ecores with thread end bypasses?
Could be true if the bypass valve wasn't completely an air tight seal. A worse case scenario would be a filter completely vertical with the base down (ie, my Tacoma is this way). Even if air does get trapped at the top, it's just a small pocket between the end of the media and the top of the can. There will still be full oil flow through the filter media. After shutdown, the filter is going to drain out the center core the same and the ADBV is going to also work the same, regardless if there is a little pocket of trapped air at the top or not.
It seems to me the air would always get pushed through the filter media and quickly be bled/vented out through the rest of the oiling system. Just like it does in a cooling system or brake system when you open a bleder or a line. The air would always seek a lower pressure area and flow out of the oil filter.
Ah, but bleed screws are at the top where the air will be. A dome up filter doesn't have any outlet for the air at the top.
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